Rich Griff Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 (edited) As the title suggests...possibly ? Please debate...., but please please please be gentlemen about it. If you have had a vimto or 3, sleep on the topic and debate in the morning, when you are sober. Churchill said something about being sober in the morning. A Tetley's, sorry, typhoo and honey for me then bed. Edited February 3 by Rich Griff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 7 minutes ago, Rich Griff said: As the title suggests...possibly ? Please debate...., but please please please be gentlemen about it. If you have had a vimto or 3, sleep on the topic and debate in the morning, when you are sober. Churchill said something about being sober in the morning. A Tetley's, sorry, typhoo and honey for me then bed. Slope soaring is great fun and well worth anyone who hasn't given it a go, to get out on the hills and do some slope soaring. It can be a good introduction to model flying, but it is not the same as flat field flying. For someone who is at the early stages of learning to fly a conventional, flat field model much of the flying on the slope is intrinsically dissimilar - the skills and muscle memory it develops are different. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 3 hours ago, leccyflyer said: Slope soaring is great fun and well worth anyone who hasn't given it a go, to get out on the hills and do some slope soaring. It can be a good introduction to model flying, but it is not the same as flat field flying. For someone who is at the early stages of learning to fly a conventional, flat field model much of the flying on the slope is intrinsically dissimilar - the skills and muscle memory it develops are different. Absolutely correct leccy. There are plenty of slope flyers on here but only one keeps advising flat field beginners to go flying on the slope. If a beginner is not competent enough to save themselves when difficulties arise then on the slope broken models and long walks will surely be the outcome. On the other hand, if a beginner starts on the slope, with help and guidance from instructors, then they will learn and have fun. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 4 hours ago, Rich Griff said: If you have had a vimto or 3, sleep on the topic and debate in the morning, when you are sober. Obviously this advice doesn't apply to you as you are posting and advising after three vimto/Tetleys. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Bowers Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 For reasons I don't fully understand, I'm happy to launch from the top of a hill in to a wind that'd have me cowering at a flat field. And fully expect the landing to perhaps be little more than a controlled crash. On a slope with smooth lift, good landing area and a light wind day, then a beginner friendly experience may be expected. However they are uncommon combinations of circumstances. I do believe sloping makes for a better flat field flyer, however can't convince myself it's an "ideal entry". Unless that's all you've got ;-) 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Having actually received my first tuition on the slopes, and subsequently seen/helped people learn on the flat, I wouldn't say it's 'ideal' in any way. Sure, you can chuck your glider off and fly for hours before landing if you want but you'll have less practice at landing. And, of course, you'll never do take-offs. And you'll have to learn the relationship and effect of throttle and elevator if you get something with a whirly bit at the front. I do find people who have flown gliders are often more controlled in their turns, and less scared of dead-sticks though! But I've never tried to convince anyone something is 'best' - just offer an opinion and support peoples choices. I suspect this thread is because toto's unlikely to fly this weekend........ 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDB Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 As someone who has only been flying flat field IC for under 2 years and has recently been slope soaring for a few months, I’ve found slope soaring more difficult than it looks despite having a tutor who is a very long standing slope soarer. I’m not the fastest learner which might have something to do with it however as Graham mentions you often have to fly in less than perfect conditions. I think if you relied on slope soaring to learn, your progress would be drawn out as perfect conditions are few and far between. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Bowers Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 1 hour ago, GrumpyGnome said: Snip I do find people who have flown gliders are often more controlled in their turns, and less scared of dead-sticks though! Snip Good observation, I hadn't joined the dots up on that. Some of my best landings are dead-stick! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 2 hours ago, Graham Bowers said: For reasons I don't fully understand, I'm happy to launch from the top of a hill in to a wind that'd have me cowering at a flat field. And fully expect the landing to perhaps be little more than a controlled crash. On a slope with smooth lift, good landing area and a light wind day, then a beginner friendly experience may be expected. However they are uncommon combinations of circumstances. I do believe sloping makes for a better flat field flyer, however can't convince myself it's an "ideal entry". Unless that's all you've got 😉 Your first point is spot on and one that I've failed to explain numerous times in my morning contemplation of the weather forecast. If the wind direction suits your local hills it can really help to extend the number of flyable days for that different style of flying. As a soarer it pays to have a variety of slopes available, which will work with those different wind directions. My soaring club have a neat little visual aid, showing all the local slopes on a compass rose and the directions that work. I find the additional experience gained on the slope to be very useful and also agree with your point that exposure to these different conditions and modes of flying will serve to improve a flyer's skills, whilst flying in those very strong winds definitely improves confidence and capability. I also would not consider it an ideal entry into flat field flying, due to those differences - you cannot learn the important lessons that throttle controls height and elevator controls speed, if you haven't got a throttle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan M Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Neither activity is intrinsically better than the other for learning. As it happens, I first taught myself slope soaring on moderate slopes in fairly light conditions with a relatively light modern RE model (a Vladimir Elf 1m DLG which I'd already chucked up to 30m type heights and learnt to glide flat-field). When I shortly afterwards came to learn power flat-field flying my basic control instincts were therefore in place, so adding in the complexities of throttle, take-offs and landings, aileron as well as rudder, and basic circuit flying etc was perhaps easier - at least for me. There is a simplicity and efficiency in soaring, which helps bed-in a more immediate instinct for energy retention, down-wind and cross-wind flying, and sets up the skill of anticipation. While I enjoy flying power, it is a much more 'mechanical' exercise - one uses the brain differently when slope (and thermal) soaring. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 2 hours ago, GrumpyGnome said: Having actually received my first tuition on the slopes, and subsequently seen/helped people learn on the flat, I wouldn't say it's 'ideal' in any way. Sure, you can chuck your glider off and fly for hours before landing if you want but you'll have less practice at landing. And, of course, you'll never do take-offs. And you'll have to learn the relationship and effect of throttle and elevator if you get something with a whirly bit at the front. I do find people who have flown gliders are often more controlled in their turns, and less scared of dead-sticks though! But I've never tried to convince anyone something is 'best' - just offer an opinion and support peoples choices. I suspect this thread is because toto's unlikely to fly this weekend........ Yep - that's exactly why this thread was started, because the OP just will not stop repeatedly giving the same piece of advice to Toto, despite having been told numerous times that Toto isn't interested in soaring just yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Bowers Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 27 minutes ago, leccyflyer said: Snip My soaring club have a neat little visual aid, showing all the local slopes on a compass rose and the directions that work. Snip Mine too, although it must be said, I don't make the effort often enough. Flat fields are 12 mins or 30 mins away. Closest slope around 70 mins, Leek area. I tend to fly more slope when away from home, easy to take a Weasel ;-) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Looks like we all agree that slope soaring is not an ideal entry into learning to fly RC model aeroplanes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted February 3 Author Share Posted February 3 Cool, what would be then please ? Suggestions ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Just now, Rich Griff said: Cool, what would be then please ? Suggestions ? What? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 9 minutes ago, EarlyBird said: Looks like we all agree that slope soaring is not an ideal entry into learning to fly RC model aeroplanes. I'd qualify that by saying not an ideal entry into learning to fly RC model aeroplanes on the flat field. IF you want to learn to fly slope soarers on the slope then it would be ideal. 🙂 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 1 minute ago, leccyflyer said: I'd qualify that by saying not an ideal entry into learning to fly RC model aeroplanes on the flat field. IF you want to learn to fly slope soarers on the slope then it would be ideal. 🙂 True but only if tuition is available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Agreed, tuition from an experienced slope soarer is vital. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 The advice being given by the OP gives me the impression that a beginner buys a model, throws it off a hill and instinctively will be able to fly. We all know that is not the case. @Rich Griff how did you learn to fly and how long ago? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wagg Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Did a bit of flat field bungee launches (Monterey) before a couple of friends took me up to the hills. Ideal way of an introduction into RC flying. They advised me on which would be a good model to start with. (Dave Hughes Soarcerer) Hours of learning the basics, orientation, aerobatics etc. The only problem was landing on a 45 degree rough slope. Plenty of lead taped on if the wind was a bit brisk. Never been afraid of dead-stick landings given enough height 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 There’s a simple explanation for the apparent anomaly about hill soaring in stronger winds than a flat field flyer would find comfortable… The earth and a myriad of bits attached to it, trees, buildings, buses, hedges etc. etc. gets in the way of the moving mass of air that we call wind and makes it tetchy as it scuffs across the ground and hits these obstructions, introducing tumbling air deflecting in various directions which the flat field flyer encounters at the most critical stages of a flight. The air approaching a typical slope has had a lovely smooth trip, way above the trials and tribulations of its lower layers and moves at a more or less constant speed and direction until it is deflected upwards by the slope. It doesn’t have time to get very grumpy until it’s realised that it’s past the top of the hill - at which time it can get very nasty indeed! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Bowers Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said: There’s a simple explanation for the apparent anomaly about hill soaring in stronger winds than a flat field flyer would find comfortable… The earth and a myriad of bits attached to it, trees, buildings, buses, hedges etc. etc. gets in the way of the moving mass of air that we call wind and makes it tetchy as it scuffs across the ground and hits these obstructions, introducing tumbling air deflecting in various directions. The air approaching a typical slope has had a lovely smooth trip, way above the trials and tribulations of its lower layers and moves at a more or less constant speed and direction until it is deflected upwards by the slope. It doesn’t have time to get very grumpy until it’s realised that it’s past the top of the hill - at which time it can get very nasty indeed! Fair point. Think my slope models are more robust than my flat field models, too. Edited February 3 by Graham Bowers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 45 minutes ago, EarlyBird said: The advice being given by the OP gives me the impression that a beginner buys a model, throws it off a hill and instinctively will be able to fly. We all know that is not the case. @Rich Griff how did you learn to fly and how long ago? Good question and -in the context of this advice being given again and again and again - another relevant question would be whether the OP currently flies on the slope, when did they last fly on the slope? Additionally, will they be flying slope today and tomorrow? That is relevant given that the basic premise which started this thread off was that slope soaring was a far better alternative to Toto's programme of learning to fly a conventional model on the flat field, because you are able to fly on the slope when you can't fly on the flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron evans Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 (edited) One advantage of learning on the slope, particularly if you have no one to help, is that once in the air you fly a figure of eight pattern. This means for most of the flight you don't have to turn towards yourself and handle the left or right stick panic. Of course to land you usually have to fly towards yourself after the downwind turn, I practiced landing circuits at height first, but still tested the strength of that nylon covered Impala. Gliding does teach you that elevator is the speed control, It's the only speed control you have. I found flying power to be easier after learning on the slope. However you learn, always get tuition unless you have no alternative. Edited February 3 by ron evans 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDB Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 (edited) An example where it isn’t always straightforward. Our best Southerly slope has an 80 degree face topped with a barbed wire fence. To avoid the rotor you need to launch from as close to the barbed wire fence as possible and landing is a long way back for which you need to walk up the slope while flying the model. No way would I know all of this without someone more experienced tutoring me. Me launching a Wild Thing 60 for its maiden with my tutor on the sticks at this slope last Sunday. ca0aadfe-1623-4ff0-be3b-176231188469.MP4 Edited February 3 by PDB 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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