Club Code of Conduct?

[Hugh Coleman]

Now I wasn't there, but this is the way it was relayed to me by a relyable member who was.

 

An infrequent attendee at the field, but one who has been a member for years, was there yesteday and started his engine in the pits with NO RESTRAINT. He accidentally knocked the throttle and the model hurtled forward. Luckily another member was quick enough to grab it before it could do any damage.

 

Now, our club has a selection of restraints for memebrs to use, and all members are asked to use them. Well, it's just common sense isn't it?

 

Anway, the president happened to be on site and he had a word to the member and asked him to restrain the model.

 

But not 30 minutes later, what should happen, but exactly the same thing. The same guy starts his model, once again with no restraint and, surprise, surprise, knocks the throttle.

 

This time though, his model ploughs into another members model and damages it.

 

When the member whose model was damaged was understandably upset and told the offending member in no uncertain terms that he MUST use a restraint.

 

The offending member, however, was not going to be told what to do and threatened the member whose model had been dameged with hysical violence.

 

No as a committee member, if I had been there, I would have asked the offending member to leave immediately. But I understand that this was not done.

 

I do not know what extent the argument got to and how it was resolved, but to my mind, the behaviour of the member whose model was not restrained, who damaged another members model as a result and then offered that member physical violence, is completely unacceptable. This sort of behaviour has no place at a flying club.

 

The president has said that we will discuss this at the next committee meeting, but I was just wondering what the general impression was in relation to this sort of thing.

 

Cheers,

 

Hugh

 

[Tony Bennett]

he should have been booted out there and then.

[Lee Smalley]

an emergancy meeting should be called by the committee and all the evidence heard if what you say is as it happened he should be disciplined and in my opinion be removed from the club, Personally if he had threatened me physically then i would have offered him the first shot!

[r6dan]

I think the bloke who`s plane wasn`t restrained should be asked to pay for any repairs to be made, fair enough accidents do happen but twice in one day is taking the you know what. If he refuses just ban him from the site.

 

If he had threatened me or a mate with violence I would have decked him there and then, but thats just me.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

if the facts are as you relate Hugh then I'd have absolutely no hesitation in voting for this guy's removal. Offering violence to another club member is absolutely unacceptable.

 

Leaving aside the threats, there is the issue of the restraint. He is, if I understand correctly, refusing to use this. Now in our club there are a clear set of rules - nothing silly, all common sense stuff that anyone with an ounce of intelligence would do anyway. But the advantage of having them actually written down is that when someone like this comes along and refuses to do the sensible thing then the committee has clear grounds to take action against them.

 

To be honest I think if he was in our club he'd be on a "final written warning" from the committee for the restraint offence alone - leaving aside the threats of violence. Add the violence in and there is nothing down for him from my perspective.

 

BEB

[Keith Simmons]

Not only are we required to be safe, We have to be seen to be Safe for everyone around and this is totally unacceptable.

 

I will leave it to the judgment of the club commitee to decide and action if any, carried out without delay.

[Hugh Coleman]

Thanks guys. I am of the same opinion as you all seem to be.

 

I will be moving a motion for his removal from the club at the next committee meeting.

 

That's if I cannot talk the president into calling an emergency meeting first.

 

Cheers,

 

Hugh

[David Gilder]

Point to note.

Threat of violence is a reportable offence to the police under violence / public order.

 

If this occurred at my club, I would expect there to be no question about excluding the offending member immediately.

 

A club can not work with people acting in this manner at all. Whats to say next time he wont just lash out.

 

Besides, its safe practive to have a model restrained when starting the engine for just this sort of incident!

 

 

[Delta Whiskey]

Sounds like you have a weak president ! He should have acted more.

Edited By Delta Whiskey on 22/08/2011 13:55:28

[Andy Symons]

Hopefully the club has a good constitution that can be followed to deal with the matter, whatever disciplinary actions that can be taken should be in there.

[stu knowles]

In matter of this nature snap decisions are best avoided even if richly deserved.

 

Putting the issue before the committee, inviting the 'offender' to be present, with 'friend' to advise and offering a right of appeal (even if the appeal is to the same committee) all result in a process which demonstrates fairness and one which is very difficult for anyone to challenge later.

 

stu k

Edited By stu knowles on 22/08/2011 14:24:19

[r6dan]

Posted by Delta Whiskey on 22/08/2011 13:53:38:

Sounds like you have a weak president ! He should be able to bench at least 200 kg!!

Edited By Delta Whiskey on 22/08/2011 13:55:28

[fly boy3]

I second Stu here. If there were no witnesses to the threat of violence he will simply deny it. The club should go through the rule book ,even though it seems cut and dried. Cheers

[Ben B]

The man's obviously a idiot. In the clubs I've flown at restraints haven't been obligatory and indeed I've never used one. But I've also never had a throttle-knocking incident. Twice in one day? He's a safety risk to everyone! And threatening violence is just not on- we do this for fun not to be threatened. Bloke sounds like a sociopath (as well as a fool).

[leccyflyer]

Posted by stu knowles on 22/08/2011 14:07:21:

In matter of this nature snap decisions are best avoided even if richly deserved.

 

Putting the issue before the committee, inviting the 'offender' to be present, with 'friend' to advise and offering a right of appeal (even if the appeal is to the same committee) all result in a process which demonstrates fairness and one which is very difficult for anyone to challenge later.

 

stu k

Edited By stu knowles on 22/08/2011 14:24:19

Is the correct answer.

 

These days it pays to do things by the book and such procedures should be written into the club consititution (or rules) so that there is no comeback on anyone, in the event that a membership has to be terminated.

[Hugh Coleman]

This is exactly what has been decided. The member will be asked to state whether he feels that his behaviour can be justified and why he feels that he can be excempt from the rules that govern the membership as a whole.

 

Cheers,

 

Hugh

[Lazygit]

You guys probably know this, but it is covered by the BMFA Handbook 2010 edition:

 

On page 36:

 

(k) When starting an engine make sure that the

model is restrained and cannot move forward.

Although this may not always be practical, restraint

is best done by either a helper or by somemechanical means.

 

On page 15:

 

Article 138;

 

“A person must not recklessly or negligently

cause or permit an aircraft to endanger any

person or property”

 

Article137;

 

‘A person must not recklessly or negligently act

in a manner likely to endanger an aircraft, or any

person in an aircraft’

 

THESE APPLY TO ALL MODEL AIRCRAFT AT

ALL TIMES, WHATEVER THEIR WEIGHT OR

SIZE.

IMHO Club insurance could be compromised if the BMFA recommendations are allowed to be ignored in the event of an incident. Just as the Highway Code is not necessarily law, whether it was observed or not can have a significant bearing on the outcome of a case.

 

In this case I would see your errant member as acting negligently.

 

 

Edited By Lazygit on 23/08/2011 07:45:34

[Peter Miller]

Clubs can do without members like that, they will sour the whole atmosphere.

 

A point that I have not seen in the thread but perhaps I missed it.

 

The injured party should be able to claim for his model off the offenders insurance.

[Wingman]

Posted by Peter Miller on 23/08/2011 08:19:09:

Clubs can do without members like that, they will sour the whole atmosphere.

 

A point that I have not seen in the thread but perhaps I missed it.

 

The injured party should be able to claim for his model off the offenders insurance.

Peter, I don't think the BMFA insurance would cover that sort of thing because it would effectively be providing cover for models and would be open to abuse by the less-than-honest.

[Andy Symons]

Posted by Wingman on 23/08/2011 08:44:35:

Posted by Peter Miller on 23/08/2011 08:19:09:

Clubs can do without members like that, they will sour the whole atmosphere.

 

A point that I have not seen in the thread but perhaps I missed it.

 

The injured party should be able to claim for his model off the offenders insurance.

Peter, I don't think the BMFA insurance would cover that sort of thing because it would effectively be providing cover for models and would be open to abuse by the less-than-honest.

In theory I think the insurance would cover it, its damage to a 3rd parties property, the fact that its a model is immaterial. However we have no idea what the extent of the damage and it may not be worth it. Don't forget there is a £50 excess too.

[Peter Miller]

The perpertrator has to pay the excess and BMFA insurance does cover member to member claims.

 

Of course any decent club member would pay up or offer some form of compensation but in cases where, shall we say, the member doesn't do the decent thing a claim would be in order.

[kc]

I have twice had a model land into my model parked in the pits. In each case the member offered to make good the damage. Both times I declined and repaired it myself. Goodwill was maintained in the club.

I think the committee should ask the member how he intends to compensate the modeller who suffered damage, and if necessary negotiate. It would surely be better than an insurance claim.

 I suspect shock caused a reaction which would not normally happen. The committee should try to smooth over the disagreement.  I would say goodwill in the club is more important than punishment. 

Edited By kc on 23/08/2011 15:57:54

[Kelly]

I always use a restraint with my IC models .

 

I fly on my own from a farmers field with his permission.

 

I follow the BMFA guidlines even though I only have the occasional dog walker/off road biker crossing my field .

 

 

[Romeo Whisky]

If a club member ignores safety advice or instructions, then I believe the Club Examiner has the right to rescind/suspend his 'A' Certificate.

[Lazygit]

That may be so, but almost impossible to implement.

 

Another point is that the first case of no restraint was an Incident and should have been reported. The second was a Serious Incident and should have been reported. The first could have caused a Serious Incident as the second confirmed. It was only luck it was a model that was hit and not a person, at which time it would become an Accident.

 

It's all in the BMFA Handbook.