Terry Whiting 1 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Wise words from Steve and Max......that makes perfect sense . .thanks Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Thanks for all your inputs which have led me to feel more confident now at being able to nail this next time out. In retrospect my mate Sam has had some good long flights after hand launches whereas lacking wind for the spin up I have belted down the strip and it has self flown off but clearly at a rotor speed which was insufficient so I was rewarded by the 'snap left' and out came the glue. Roll on Saturday when I can have another go. I will report back! Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Harris Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 Peter, A model autogyro needs to have full RPM in the rotors before lifting off successfully, as everyone has said just take it nice and slowly on the take off run. The way I always try and picture it is that trying to take off an autogyro not in full auto rotation is like trying to take a fixed wing off with only half a wing on one side. I think this may be your friend Sam flying his Atom in Brittany? He is a natural! Sam's Atom Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Rich, yes, I realise now the error of my ways! The old story - Saturday and Sunday the only flying sessions in the week right now, little wind for spin up so take a chance and then reach for the glue. Not again though. Yes that is Sam who is an excellent pilot and also, like me, enjoys experimenting with different types of craft. Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Williams Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Well - maiden day for the electric Atom, and a couple of engine runs on the i/c one for a bit of running in. First flight OK, but very twitchy, and holding in almost full forward stick. I had added some weight to the tail to get the hang angle as per spec so removed most of this, set some low rates and a bit of expo and second flight was better. Still needed to get it trimmed better so went for third flight, juggling with sticks and trims, it got too far away and up-sun. Struggling to work out orientation of the small black silhouette the next thing I saw was a side view of the rotor disk slowing to a stop! Frantic juggling of the sticks and the rotor almost restarted before the whole thing flopped into the crop. Damage fairly light, a couple of nicks in a couple of blades, mast snapped but otherwise OK. Easy repair, but will probably be next week before I can get out to the patch again. Not happy enough with the running of the OS15 yet, so didn't risk trying the other one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 And it was all going so well, shouldn't take long to fix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Jones 2 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Oops .... Just a scratch .... Looked good in the air and sure it won't take long Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Looking at the picture it looks bang on Frank (the first one ) it steer o.k with the skid ? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stringer Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Posted by Richard Harris on 10/02/2015 23:14:28: MM, To give you an idea our field is next to THIS golf club. Rich Edited By Richard Harris on 10/02/2015 23:15:01 Rich Long time no speak but I have been following all of your threads and while being off sick for a few days recently spent my time sat down reading this and the Spyro III thread .. and finally "how they work" and "what needs doing" seems to have clicked in my brain .. I think without that length of a single reading it wouldn't have fitted together quite that way ... so I am inspired, re-enthused and raring to go! Anyway .. I cannot believe I did not know about that club .. cannot see it on the BMFA site - and only just over half an hour from where I live. Any chance of a PM with more details of the club please? I am hoping to get down on one of those Atom days .. just to say Hi, meet everyone and see it all happen.... I don't have one yet though having read everything through and being re-inspired I did place a few orders today .. so who knows, maybe I will be able to add to things too (3 HK heads, lots of FG Atom parts from Coolwinds and a box full of servos!) One tip for people buying the heads and servos from HK .. if you use the international warehouse for it all then just keep the item on the screen for a while and eventually you get a pop up offering them at a better price .. the header units this morning were $7.09 and the servos were $5.60 after waiting for the pop-ups .. did cost $20 for UK direct postage but that seems fair to me - hope this helps others (I tried lots of options of header units and servos to see what worked out best for the postage but it is the headers that weigh the most and make it add up) So hope to see everyone soon - amazing work as always Rich! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Flynn 1 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Hi everybody I got to maiden my Atom this past weekend there is a video on RC Groups under (Atom Special I need your help) It was built as per RH plan and set up as he instructed all I can say is what a sweet model flew right off didn't even have to touch the trims I used an 1800mah battery with the receiver behind the mast former, AJ blades and the rest was built from the scrap pile, If I can help you with yours fell free to ask me any questions. Please take a look at the video and let me know what you think regards Kevin PS I cant figure out how to download videos here that's why its over on RC Groups Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Harris Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 Frank, Well done on getting your Atom airborne , if it is nosing up you could increase the blade negative shim thickness. If memory serves me correct Steve Jones 2 had the same issue, a little extra negative reduced the lift enough to drop the nose. Mark, Nice to hear from you, pop down on the Atom trimming days, once you have seen one flying I am sure you will want a go at one! Kevin, I have just viewed your video, great flight andexcellent editing, I like the flying field and the back drop! is it in California? Any way, here you go... Rich Edited By Richard Harris on 19/03/2015 18:28:25 Edited By Richard Harris on 19/03/2015 18:31:04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Flynn 1 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Yes Rich it is in California where I live (well about a 30 min drive) it is a closed airport they were going to build on it but too much opposition by the locals stopped that, We are lucky we have not been thrown out that's why we all fly electric the neighbors don't like noise. Just incase you are interested it is for sale at 5million dollars, it was built in WW2 as an emergency landing field, as there was a army flight training school in nearby Watsonville. I must say Rich I have built quite a few of your models but I would say (for me) this is one of your best, my next pick for easy enjoyable flying is the Whippitt Anyhow thanks for the comments I do appreciate all your hard work regards Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Barlow Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Nice explanation of how the flap hinge or flex plate is working at 2:22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stringer Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 While waiting for my parts to arrive I have been reading as much as I can and trying to learn everything that I can about the Atom Special and other gyros .. so slowly becoming a gyronut ! I saw Terry Whitings modified head which helped with the shims but made the structure a little more complex .. so I was thinking about this and had an alternate idea. Now this may be total rubbish and have been thought of before, or tried, or have lots of reasons why it is not suitable so please feel free to tell me why it is not suitable .. but here are my ramblings anyway.... In simplest terms we make the head 4 or 5mm larger - superimposed over an original at the left ..poor drawing I know but just to get the idea across...: So the corners are rounded but all holes stay in the same place. This gives more area under the root of the blade for shims. Now my thinking was that the important part is the flex of the plate and it flexes between that centre hub and the root of the blade .. so in that 14mm section is where we get the flex. In the original and in Terrys' that is the same size - works out to 518mm square (give or take). In my larger version that comes out at 714mm sq .. so could produce more flex .. which means we could reduce the 14mm down to say 11mm which would then give 583mm sq so closer in "flex area" to the others. That would give even more shim area .. which I have tried to show in an even more poor drawing: Not sure if that all makes any sense or not or why it would not be suitable .. just what came to mind so any feedback happily received .. but it would give a bit more shim area or plenty of shim if we came down to 11mm and its construction is as easy as the original. Ready to be shot down in flames Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozgur Sar Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Hello everyone, I was able to complete and maiden my atom this weekend. After a few unsuccessful runs, I managed to get off the ground directly against wind but suddenly nose got up 90 degrees suddenly and model stalled, ending with a broken rudder. I checked CG before flight and it was around 15 degrees nose heavy when hunged from the mast. What could be the potential problems so that I can correct them before next flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Williams Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Ozgur - I had the same problem. I thought it was a tail heavy thing and removed a bit of weight and it was a bit better, but reading back though the thread I now think it was too much lift, and I need thicker shims under the blades. Hopefully one of the more experienced fliers can confirm this. Mine eventually ended up looking like Frank's picture above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozgur Sar Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 David, thanks for your reply. I was thinking of adding some more weight to nose. I have 0.4mm shims under root of 450mm blades (bought from AJ Blades) as specified in the thread. So should I try with 0.8mm shims instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Barlow Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 My shim is 0.8mm and on the initial test flight the nose rose up rapidly which I trimmed out with down elevator for the "real" flight. Additionally my shims are the full width of the blade root sanded down to a 0mm taper at the leading edge resulting in a full seat on the flex plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McIntosh Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I suppose that I had better admit to trying my two today. No.1. As soon as I got to the patch the wind dropped but was able to get a spin up eventually. After a few tries tipping left the long motor shaft bent as predicted. No.2. A trial run, this time with right trim and it ran straight so tally ho. I got it airborne but then had to fight the trim and it suddenly went up at 90deg. just like Ozgur`s. The canopy flew off, hit the rotors and knocked them askew so it nose dived from 50ft leaving me with a repair job (new rotors). I am using 0.8mm shims so I do not think that excess lift was the problem. One thing that did not help was the very heavy HK APC type prop. which takes a while to spin up and down so I shall change this for next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Williams Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Yes I had 0.8mm shims, but I think I overtightened the blades, distorting the flex plate and partly negating the effect of the shims. Just rebuilding things to try again later this week. My blades are home made with 6mm spruce and 50mm balsa, so wider than the AJs but not as wide as Rich's 60mm spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Jones 2 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Don't give up Guys but also take things easy..... Set up should be straightforward for this great model: Hang angle - no less than 16 deg Head at 6 deg up to the horizontal when tail level Head tilted slightly left when viewed from rear or model Blades tightened so that they only just support their own weight when held out horizontal With this set up it should be a good start to try some gentle trial hops to check the basic trim. Once it seems ok for straight and level the GENTLE on the use of throttle for a wide left hand circuit. Keep the bank angle low and keep the speed moderate . More power means faster to the crash site !!!! As mentioned before my one runs 0.8mm shims, initially with 0.4mm it pitched nose up quickly. The answer is BACK OFF on the throttle but avoid the stall or blades slow until it falls out the sky Best advice I can give is like me , get help from others. The fuel cost for the trip to Rich invites for trimming days will pay you back in repair time If you keep trying and are successful like others then good luck . Will be watching with fingers crossed and when you do you will have a blast !!! Steve Edited By Steve Jones 2 on 23/03/2015 18:15:10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Harris Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Great advice Steve, I can't really add anymore other than remember it is all about the throttle, an autogyro will climb naturally under power . As it pitches nose up the rotor acts like a big brake, with the power still applied it will eventually want to roll on its back or do a kind of stall turn. You have to reduce the throttle and the nose will simply drop. An autogyro cannot stall whilst the blades are in auto rotation, when they stop gravity takes over (don't ask me how I know this!) Keep at it! Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Posted by john stones 1 on 18/03/2015 22:21:06: Looking at the picture it looks bang on Frank (the first one ) it steer o.k with the skid ? John John Here's a video with a couple of take offs (and the dumb thumbs crash), you can't taxi around but the rudders do work on keeping it down the runway on take off (at least into wind) RCME Atom Autogyro from Frank Skilbeck on Vimeo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Whiting 1 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Frank, That was a really impressive flight, If I can manage my first flight half as good as yours I will be chuffed to bits.. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Anderson Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Nigel any more info/progress Joe Posted by nigel simkin on 13/12/2014 19:27:27: Here's what I've come up with, its the Pre-rotation unit for the Auto G2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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