Mick Murphy Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 I flew planes about 20 years back and then did the family thing and now have entered back into it. I thought i would join a club and paying with insurance the best part of £200 i did but unknown to me to fly solo i needed an A certificate now i thought that was a good idea after such a lay off and checked to see who were the teachers and there were 10. No problem i thought but in the end i found out only 2 were available and with atleast 20 beginners i am getting very irritated. Both can only fly at weekends so i turn up and atleast 8 per instructor turn up....The result is 5 hours at the field and one flight...The next weekend one instructor dropped out and result was 6 hours 1 flight. It seems that these 10 instructors was a complete load of rubbish or they have just shrugged their responsabilities. I can't turn up in the week as i cant fly solo and so its all a joke and i am thinking of asking for my money back I am more than happy to take the test but one flight a week after hanging round for 5 hours is a con. I heard its taken some 2-3 years to pass and i am not surprised. Are there any shools to do a crash coarse ( literally) as it would not take that much time surely Sorry it has been a bit of a winge first post but are all clubs like this as i feel i have paid £200 for a complete waste of my time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Wragg Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Please don't have a go at the instructors because most likely they give up their precious little spare / flying time for free and are graciously helping others to learn. The problem lies with the club for accepting your fee's without fully explaining the situation regarding waiting times concerning new pilots. What the club should have done is put you on a waiting list to join instead of taking your fee's and leaving you to sit on sidelines waiting your turn. 1 Flight per session is laughable and is a waist of time. In my opinion you should have at least 3 per session in doing this the club should have a greater turnaround of learner pilots instead of disgruntled pilots stood kicking grass Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wright Stuff Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Welcome to the forum, Mick. I've been in that boat and I sympathize. My own solution (having picked up the basics after 5 or 6 instructed flights at the club) was simply to go away, find somewhere to practice on my own, and teach myself. I figured I might as well use those hours at the weekends to crash, re-build and learn, as opposed to sitting around waiting. This works if you have a suitable model, insurance, a suitable site, a degree of self-discipline and patience, and have picked up the basics of take-offs, circuits, and landings already. I did this back in the days before sims, so with the aid of a simulator as well, I'm sure it's possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyinBrian Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Mick, to answer your question re schools, yes there are a few scattered around the country, a couple are advertised in RCM&E how suitable for you I don't know that will depend on cost and distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 I totally agree with what Sam has said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Mick, one option is to pack up for a week in the sun at the RC Hotel in Corfu. They don't actually put you through an A cert test but they can certainly get you up to speed - but of course you would have to pay for the tuition! As compensation you get Corfu weather, great food & hospitality with pool + bar to relax in after the flying. Otherwise I see Midland Flight Training advertise in the back of the magazine and there must still be other companies offering training - Google? If you let us know what area you are in maybe someone can suggest a more helpful club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will -0 Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 All that. Whereabouts in the country are you? It is, however rather refreshing to hear of so many learners. Most clubs I've been associated with have very few beginners! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Mick, welcome. If what you say is true that is not on, but I also pity the poor overloaded instructor. I am a bit surprised that the club wants the pupils to fly only with an instructor, as to my view anyone with a competence certificate could supervise someone back in the swing of things while they practice circuits and figure eights ad nausium, until the standard returns or is reached. And there are professional flying schools, they will cost but the good ones do the job. Paul Heckles Flying School for one had a good reputation. Don't know about today as I live in France and am out of touch. The only thing I would say is if you go down this route, get downloads from the BFMA on what you will get examined on, so when you do the practical course you have the knowledge that you can't fail the theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 £200 club fees....... Ouch! I hope they have a nice tarmac runway and club house for that..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wright Stuff Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Posted by Sam Wragg on 29/04/2015 14:45:04: Please don't have a go at the instructors because most likely they give up their precious little spare / flying time for free and are graciously helping others to learn. The problem lies with the club for accepting your fee's without fully explaining the situation regarding waiting times concerning new pilots. What the club should have done is put you on a waiting list to join instead of taking your fee's and leaving you to sit on sidelines waiting your turn. I'm reluctant to generalize because I've seen this from both sides. An equally common scenario is that instructors generously pledge time, the committee recruit trainees based on those pledges, and then the pledges are not honored in practice. But I totally agree that this sort of situation results from a breakdown in communication between training and membership aspects of the committee. Donald is right: practice under supervision represents a good compromise. In this respect learning to drive with a provisional licence is a very good analogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Of course all clubs are not like this, and not all committees take your money with false promises either, if you put your name forward as an instructor, then instruct. Mick states 10 instructors where's other 8 ? it's a team effort not just your club presidents responsibility. John P.S. spot on TWS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Sadly this is not an unknown problem. The first step I would take is for a couple of you learners to have a quiet word with the club chairman. The current situation is not good for you and its not good for the club either. If the Chair is worth his salt he and the committee should look at a way around this. Our club has 9 instructors at present - of which I'd say 4-5 regularly instruct, 2-3 do sometimes (if they are reminded to!) and 1-2 seem to never instruct. Its an inevitable consequence of a voluntary system. At the end of the day the club can't make people instruct. What we have done is if someone shows a marked reluctance to discharge their duties as an instructor we just politely and quietly suggest that they "stand down" (they can always come back at some future point if they have the urge and the time). That way at least beginners get a more realistic picture of how many instructors there really are. But, even in a well run club it can still be a problem - just less commonly so. I have found myself as the only instructor down at the strip with half a dozen beginners all looking to fly! It certainly makes for a busy afternoon! One way we avoid this is by telling beginners that while they can come any time and take a chance that there will be instructors present, we encourage them to come Saturdays and Wednesday evenings in the summer as they are "unofficial" training times and often at those times there will be 5-6 instructors about and you can take your pick! If your club is not prepared to address this issue then frankly I'd be looking for another club. Personally I support the idea of having an A-test to fly unaccompanied, but it does put a responsibility on the club to get beginners through the test in a reasonable time - 3-months typical, 6-months max! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 hello mick-to be honest- I would ask for your money back and find a club with members who are willing to help you learn etc...... not all insist on an A cert....don't be put off.....good luck - if all else fails move up to the friendly north east.... ken Anderson...ne..1 club dept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Bennett Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Mick, it might help if you say where you're located. Our club is not BMFA affiliated, and we have our own insurance which is not dependent on an "A" certificate. Our annual fee, including the insurance, is a small fraction of what you've been charged too. Others may be able to help if they know where you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 A club's A cert requirement is just a local rule and has nothing to do with BMFA insurance. Edited By Martin Harris on 29/04/2015 17:38:36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Where are you Mick.....? If you where here in St. Austell area, I'd say come on down. We are looking for new members, you can have 3 free flights under our insurance for nothing, club fees and insurance total £55/ year. Whats not to like ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bran Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Feel for you, but you are actually lucky to get ANY flying! When I restarted flying after a long lay off I retaught myself in a local park (which HAS bylaw permissions for EP and I went before anyone else was up anyway). I then tried to join a club, and checked they had membership vacancies, they said they did. I therefore applied. It was after all the forms process that I was told that I had to attend a formal interview with three Committee members. (and only then would a flight test be arranged) When six months later they still had not arranged this, I asked politely how long it was thought I'd be waiting. I had found out by then that there were at least six others in the same situation. I received a single line reply, and I quote "We never said how long it would take". I could have gone elsewhere had I known, and not effectively lost a complete season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin b Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Posted by ken anderson. on 29/04/2015 16:55:02: hello mick-to be honest- I would ask for your money back and find a club with members who are willing to help you learn etc...... not all insist on an A cert....don't be put off.....good luck - if all else fails move up to the friendly north east.... ken Anderson...ne..1 club dept. Ditto. ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Lads, sorry, move to France. I arrive at my field, view the 9 benches before me, look to the horizon (27 turbines in a good vis day), check if the council have mown the grass, acres of it, and the have, but mattered not as the strip is 80 by 40 meters of rolled dust. Cost € 45, inc insurance. Board available if you are nice to me. And we have swish club owned trainers, inc instructors. Mind you, they come mode 1 pre-installed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Spelling powered by Spanish red. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingKade Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 No response from the OP? Where are you based? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan iuiggu Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 I'm in the same boat, in the end I went to paul heckles and done like nearly 2 months flying on Saturday mornings and done me the world of good, there so helpful, the annoying part is I can flying no problems now even got couple of low wing plans been flying solo for over a year easy but they still haven't said about my test Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Murphy Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Thankyou for all your points of view. I have said to the two instructors that i am very grateful but they to say it is not on and sympathise with our pridicaments and last night i had a right conversation with the vice chairman so that probably means i will be looking for a new club now but it has been going on way before i arrived and it seemed something had to be said but you know what 'Some' committee members are like its how dare you are a beginner ( although i am really experienced but with just a fair period off) club scenario it is like that in most hobbies or sports It seems it is not rare then that this happens and my view is if you want to bring this rule in supply trainers as if you cant don't I can travel in the South East really although Sussex in the main but i travel right across the South East for my job and can stick my plane in there for the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will -0 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Oh dear. Can I suggest that next time round you pay the club a visit before signing up so that you can see the lie of the land and assess if this meets your needs before parting with cash! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted hughes Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Posted by The Wright Stuff on 29/04/2015 14:49:03: Welcome to the forum, Mick. I've been in that boat and I sympathize. My own solution (having picked up the basics after 5 or 6 instructed flights at the club) was simply to go away, find somewhere to practice on my own, and teach myself. I figured I might as well use those hours at the weekends to crash, re-build and learn, as opposed to sitting around waiting. ... Same as TWS, I taught myself. A powered glider, an empty field (NOT a public park) and you can have many happy hours learning the basics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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