Paul Marsh Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 the 60 is the same size as a .52. Then there's always the throttle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Peter, Any particular reason why the stringers are made from spruce rather than balsa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Stronger. Don't fancy the wings doing a closed book syndrome - fold! Especially when some hot head puts a bigger engine in it and goes full chat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 I wasn't thinking of the wings. I am thinking of the stringers forming the curved upper rear half of the fuselage. Surprisingly, the wing spars are 1/4" balsa although they are webbed for strength. PS - Im scaling up to 120% and putting a Saito 82 in it (Call me Mr Hot Head). I haven't worked out which stock needs scaling up yet. Most of it looks OK as it is without increasing thickness. That was going to be my next question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 For a bit of strength Gary, seems like C.G is easily achieved without worrying about adding a little weight at the rear ? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Barlow Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Fuselage stringers can bend and distort when covering using a hot shrink film or when the tissue is shrunk. Using hard balsa or spruce gives them more of a chance of staying straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share Posted November 29, 2015 They can also crush when you pick the model up or handle it. I used spruce for those reasons, also because I had it in stock. My last design, the scale Locamp ises 1/8" X 1/4 stringers but there are fewer of them. You could use spruce for your wing spars with the enlarged model. As I have said elsewhere, my Dancing Queen uses the same construction and sizes as Ballerina and pulled 24.8G without failing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Thanks Chris / Peter. I can see that the spruce stringers might reduce the chance of hanger rash. I asked because it looks like it's not a highly loaded area for flying purposes, having a solid box section lower half. Thanks for the advice on using spruce for the wing spars Peter. I think I will do that for peace of mind if nothing else. It certainly looks like a well designed model with reinforcement in all the right places, so I think it should stand scaling up without increasing ANY material sizes. I may reinforce the area around F1 and F2 with fibre glass to cope with the increased loads from the larger engine I'll be fitting. This will be the first Peter Miller design I've built. I'm very impressed with what I've seen so far, and being able to ask the designer direct questions is absolutely fantastic. Thanks for taking the time to do this Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Starting to build mine today. Will do a build blog. For now will cut the formers out and make a kit - don't do the airframe yet, leaving that over Xmas - don't want to do too much and get bored! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share Posted November 29, 2015 Posted by Gary Manuel on 29/11/2015 09:42:21: Thanks Chris / Peter. It certainly looks like a well designed model with reinforcement in all the right places, so I think it should stand scaling up without increasing ANY material sizes. I may reinforce the area around F1 and F2 with fibre glass to cope with the increased loads from the larger engine I'll be fitting. This will be the first Peter Miller design I've built. I'm very impressed with what I've seen so far, and being able to ask the designer direct questions is absolutely fantastic. Thanks for taking the time to do this Peter With an .82 up front I would consider making the front double from 1/16" ply. Just a thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Thanks Peter. I'll do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Hofman Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Peter, what is the profile you have chosen for the Ballerina wing? I apologize if you wrote about is in a thread here or in the RCME article, but I do not recall having seen it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 NACA 341$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Hofman Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Is the $ over the 4 on your keyboard Peter? Is the profile chosen the result of an analysis or is the a profile you always use for sport aerobats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 Posted by Lucas Hofman on 15/12/2015 22:10:29: Is the $ over the 4 on your keyboard Peter? Is the profile chosen the result of an analysis or is the a profile you always use for sport aerobats? Yes the $ is over the 4. The profile is one that I like because it is thick enough to provide the type of flying I like and it is basically flat from the spar to the trailing edge which means that it can be built flat on the board. without tabs or packing I use Compufoil to draw out my wings. which provides me with a huge range of airfoils to choose from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Hofman Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Peter, in the article you write same aileron deflection up and down (no differential). However, studying the plan i see the following: It looks like the horn is quite a bit after the hinge line. Are you compensating this at the servo end, or do you actually have some differential build in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted December 20, 2015 Author Share Posted December 20, 2015 I simply use my throw adjust on my transmitter and set the throws that I want and those are equal. This is why I like my computer transmitter If people want to play with the throws fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottrik Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 I'm sure this is just inexperience on my part, but in examining the plan I've come up with a question. The 3/32" side plus the 1/32" ply doubler gives me (nominally) a 1/8" thickness overall. This matches up very nicely with the 1/8" stringers aft of the cockpit. What I am finding problematic is the three formers F7 through F9 where there is no doubler...I can see how the former width could be designed 1/16" wider to take up the slack from the missing doubler and keep the fuselage taper neat, but nothing I can imagine makes this match up with the stringers? It seems there would need to be a step in the former, or adding a 1/32" cap strip to each side of the mentioned former from base up to the bottom edge of the first stringer to shim the sides out but this is not shown in the plan. This mis-match also appears to extend to the front. Again, our nominal built-up thickness of the sides is 1/8" but the plan shows the turtledeck being formed from 3/32" sheet. Again, this seems to "miss". Here I can imagine sanding things flush since it extends the entire length of the turtledeck, but at the rear such sanding would make a quite noticeably concave appearance. I'm sure there are quite simple explanations, but I'm coming up stumped. Edited By Scottrik on 26/12/2015 17:37:38 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted December 26, 2015 Author Share Posted December 26, 2015 THis has been explained somewhere else but there are so many threads that it might be hard to find. There are two answers. You can cut the formers with that tiny step. Or you can just glue the sheets to line up with the sides and then, once the glue has dried you can apply the glue to the formers and roll the sheet over the formers. The glue will fill the very tiny gaps. As it is not a structural joint the glue filled joint will not be a serious problem. Any small step can easily be sandpapered off, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottrik Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 Many thanks, Peter, for explaining. Guess I wasn't daft after all. You are right re: SO many threads. I'm thinking I may give this a go with the mass build (albeit from afar in Frosty E. Montana). The Ballerina is SO similar to my beloved Space Walker but will be infinitely better 'cause I built it! (positive affirmations...building myself up for the challenge). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted December 26, 2015 Author Share Posted December 26, 2015 Trust me, Ballerina is not difficult, there are no complicated techniques needed. Just follow the instruction and if you hit a snag there is always help on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 I almost had it built - shame - i was looking forward to the mass build and the model. A couple of snags were'nt too hard to rectify, as someone with building experiance should get round it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted December 26, 2015 Author Share Posted December 26, 2015 Paul I spent 12 years in the RAF. Living up to 20 in a room one learned very quickly to let things slide over one's head and not take it personally. Other wise life would become intolerable. If you still have the model shrug your shoulders and get on with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo565 Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 Well said Peter,my thoughts entirely. Pity to bin such a good looking model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 I cannot believe the way Paul's build blog was 'cancelled' due to just a few tongue in cheek comments. Paul was actually doing a great job. By being a trailblazer he proved how important it is to read Peter's article and follow the build sequence. By continuing Paul could show how to overcome the slight problems in a practical way. Keep at it Paul and finish the build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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