New Laser engines. What do you want?

[Martin Dance 1]

Jon, I suspect that your 'correspondent' may well be a single finger typist who has difficulty in turning his/her computer on and therefore struggles to stirng a few coherent words together. Asking what they intended to use the motor for is way beyond their computer skills.

Another possible solution to your problem lies in your telephone system.I don't know whether you have a multi option system. So that 'press 1 to hear the latest stock availability. Press 2 to hear the estimated waiting times for other engines. Press 3 to speak to that nice Mr Harper!

[Joespeeder]

Hey Jon,

Sounds like you're on a good path. There have been others that have gotten caught in the expected delivery trap. It creates expectations and pressure at both ends. Like 99% of your customers I understand totally. You've always gone way out of your way to help both on the forums and when I've needed any help.

Generally, rude people live their lives in that state.... Don't let it get to you. They are more miserable then those around them and everyone else can leave. lol... They live in that frame of mind.

I used to be shocked how a customer would be so extremely rude over the phone or by email then change into the sweetest person when they came into my office. We even had a customer bring my staff flowers he had been so rude and he felt like an "arse".

Thanks for all your help and keep doing cool things !!

Now, just cause I want to show off.... Here are some initial pics of my Storch with it's new 300v !! The 300v fits perfectly but with no room to spare and should make towing sailplanes simple! Maiden soon, then more pics.

My pilot is a retired HE-111 driver and his crew owned the largest toy mfg in Germany before the war !!! I have my doubts about them seeing anything.... lol

Joe

[Stumps]

Is that Oliver Hardy in the back...

love the model though.

[Jon H]

Frank - thats not a bad idea but it will require someone to set up the website and all the rest of it. Short term that is not likely to happen but in future i was thinking that perhaps a traffic light system would work with red being out of stock, yellow indicating that a batch was actually on the bench being assembled (at which point the 'email when available' option could open up) and green being all is well. Again, i cant do it alone though as it would be me that had to update the site as i am very much alone.

Martin - There are cave drawings of our phone system. Its reliable, but im pretty sure the boss puts coal in it each evening.

Joe - your pilot is looking pretty serious there, but the chap in the back is either about to burst out laughing or unleash something unpleasant! looks sweet though, when is the maiden?

[Joespeeder]

Thanks Guys,

You can see the rear seater on the job here... lol

LINKY

I hope to fly next week. I just took balance measurements yesterday.

The Storch is weird and I'm going slow.

Any news on CDI or other projects ?

Joe

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

How strange seeing Hogan's Heroes in colour!

[Jon H]

Nothing too new on the petrol front yet Joe. I am still air testing my latest incarnation and have one new part to add to the engine which should resolve one known issue. I will update when I can

[Former Member]

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[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Sounds like you got a Friday afternoon job, Andrew!

[Manish Chandrayan]

Who uses Lasers? Mostly scale and some percentage of other classes. Now let's talk of the most. The guy building a scale plans ahead and takes his time to make sure his airframe and electronics are up to the mark before the maiden. That means sufficient time for arrival of the chosen Laser. These people are certainly not the types of buy it in the morning and fly the next day types.
So not knowing when a chosen Laser will be available next might force one to consider options. But once it has been ordered and the lead time is known (approx) the modeller can work to that schedule.
I do agree that a large order line on the board will put pressure on the business owner

[Jon H]

Manish has raised an interesting point about who uses our engines and how. his analysis was quite accurate but we are seeing an increasing number of people wanting instant turn around for their new artf. A great many people will not wait more than a few days and to be honest there are not enough of the traditional plan builders left to make the older system work, which is another reason I am looking at doing things differently.

I am also desperate to kill this 'lasers are only good for scale' thing as it drives me up the wall. I know that scale has historically been our focus/direction of what little marketing has been done but its a real hindrance now as that market is smaller than it was.

Most of our engines are equally at home in a sport model and this is yet another thing I am keen to promote.

[Steve Dunne]

That is very true, Jon.

As well as several scale warbirds and biplanes with Lasers, I have a very aerobatic Hangar-9 Inverza-33 with a Laser 180. It is an excellent match to the plane, and performs the whole schedule (as far as I can perform it, that is!).

Very reliable in any attitude, and like many 180s pops and burbles through the idle-backs to everyone's amusement.

Keep 'em coming!

Steve.

[Ron Gray]

My 160v on order at the moment is certainly not for a scale jobbie, a Wots Wot XL is the designated home for it following great advice from Jon.

[Former Member]

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[ken anderson.]

hello Jon,i think since I started rc models(1988/9) that the laser engines were always seen as the engine for the old scale type WW 1 models...and I think(I may be wrong) still are.....maybe an article or two in the mag and some marketing/PR may change the way they are perceived ... of course I do think that the electric power/lipos is having an effect on the whole model engine market.if what I see at our club site is happening all over(we have over 100 members) is going on else where I think that all IC stuff is going to be in the minority...my thought's...

ken Anderson...ne...1..... ic/electric dept.

[Tim Flyer]

Really Amazing plane Joe ! Deserves the lovely engine!

[Jon H]

Hi Ken

We shot ourselves in the foot to some degree by only really displaying models like tiger moths etc when we fly at shows. I was loaned a 20x10 G sonic prop to test on my La7 WWII fighter with a 300v up the nose. Good grief did it shift, and the stecatto note of backfiring when off throttle on a downline was even more pronounced than usual. To be honest, it was too quick for WWII, but fit that little combo into an 80 inch aerobatic model and it would be quite something.

As for getting the message across as we have seen numerous mags go under, so clearly mag sales arent all they were and we did feature an article in a magazine a year or two ago and it was really difficult. For a start the reviewer wouldnt even follow the running in instructions i gave him because 'old habbits die hard'. I dont want to disrespect the bloke, but if the manufacturer of a product tells you how to run it in, and is looking for you to promote that running in procedure as its quicker than the normal one and is a positive feature of the product, and then you ignore that and write something else....what is the point?

as for ic vs electric i basically see it that anything up to 30 size is all electric, 30-50 there is a mix, 60 2 stroke to 120/150 4 stroke is mostly glow but beyond that its all petrol. Clearly thats over simplifying, but in general that is the trend i see having flown at a variety of places.

I know what i need to do, but not exactly how to do it and as mentioned before, i am but one man. What i need are 3 people to help me and to hire a professional to do some proper videos of the engines in action in a variety of models. This i think would be a step in the right direction as a great many people get all of their inspiration from youtube videos and the like. We already have a youtube channel, i just dont have time to put anything on it.

[Tim Flyer]

Jon if you make your engines very popular you will surely then you would need mass production and assembly/ manufacturing in a low cost country? Surely that would be a big risk and may make Laser like the other mass market motors.

I think your engines are well under priced for what they are as an almost bespoke hand made item . As Sport engines I think Lasers are great the lovely throttling is very useful . I run the 80 in my Wot 4 sport plane which is fantastic fun( has air brakes too!!), and the 155 in Wots Wot XL which is great fun too.

I ran the 100 up today in the P47 and that engine note is fantastic. Your engines are certainly easy to use ! Each seems to have a very different character (as you obviously intended)so it's good you are on hand to advise on initial purchase/ model suitability.

[Jon H]

There is no chance of shipping production off to china. OS have done that and its not helping them i dont think

[TartanMac]

I've never bought a new from factory Laser before. The weight has seemed heavy in the past and the carb was not placed well for what I wanted but after some time I found more artf planes don't support inverted engines with there fuel tank hight anyway so I had to start cutting away material anyway. I don't like putting engines side ways as you get roll out on elevator in high G turns and I get nervous about pushing my limits down wind and into the wind with that problem so straight up or inverted is what I use. Not really a fan of scale flying or 3D. Sport and sport aerobats is what I like and the reason I'm looking at laser is you mentioning such a low oil content. Most of my artf stuff for 40-55 2 strokes is too heavy for real performance 5 1/2 to 5 3/4 lbs you need alot of throttle and it burns fuel with 18-20% oil 10-15% nitro there is not much fuel in the tank to begin with 65-72%. Using a bigger tank is no good it knocks out the CG for 1/3 of the flight and even a hot 55 2C struggles with the weight and airframe drag. I don't cruise around with my planes to me it is boring I usually am chasing the performance and trying to increase my skill at the same time.

To get my custom the low oil content will do it for the purpose of a consitant cg from a small tank and the carb in the head giving really clean initial throttle up. But also low nitro at 5%. The saito is light but you need 15% to get the real performance they have that is too expensive and you need a liscence for buying pure nitro now so I'm looking at your engines now with very keen interest. I would not bother putting ads in magazines anymore they are behind the times they should be all over youtube by now. Just get a good pilot to rag doll a sport plane on youtube with a good microphone. If you put an ad in a mag for your 180 petrol it would be interesting but your vid is more interesting alot more. Alot of vids are guys setting planes up to generally cruise around look at the chris foss acrowot vid by the magazine just boring. Get a good pilot but not polished or too timely and precise and fly it low people can relate to that more especially with sport planes.

I would personally love a 40 class laser around around 390g turning 11x6 graupner @ 10,500 rpm in a 3 to 4lbs sport plane. 5% oil and 5% nitro 90% fuel it would be so cheap to run and would give great run times. I read though it does'nt sell what a pitty.

As for the question of the 100 petrol I would not buy it at £375 it does not make sense to me beacause of the overall weight. And the prospect of 5% oil in the glow version I looked at your 120 and it would be more attractive to me.

The 180 petrol after seeing your video it is very much a yes. The fuel efficiency is brilliant and it sounds very good almost like it's fuel injected. I think that engine is the best model 4C single ever made can't wait to hear a finnished production version.

As for the big V twin and radial £1200 is out my price range for any model engine your V twin glow engine are right on the limit of what I would spend.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Seen a fair number of Lasers at our club, most in sports models, don't think it's owt to do with you displaying in scale models, more likely your customers comments at flying sites online etc.

John

[cymaz]

Posted by Jon Harper - Laser Engines on 30/07/2017 21:03:06:

I know what i need to do, but not exactly how to do it and as mentioned before, i am but one man. What i need are 3 people to help me and to hire a professional to do some proper videos of the engines in action in a variety of models. This i think would be a step in the right direction as a great many people get all of their inspiration from youtube videos and the like. We already have a youtube channel, i just dont have time to put anything on it.

How about this chap....always seems to post excellent videos

[Phil 9]

Posted by Jon Harper - Laser Engines on 30/07/2017 21:03:06:

Hi Ken

We shot ourselves in the foot to some degree by only really displaying models like tiger moths etc when we fly at shows. I was loaned a 20x10 G sonic prop to test on my La7 WWII fighter with a 300v up the nose. Good grief did it shift, and the stecatto note of backfiring when off throttle on a downline was even more pronounced than usual. To be honest, it was too quick for WWII, but fit that little combo into an 80 inch aerobatic model and it would be quite something.

do you know of a suitable airframe or better still a plan for one. this has all the ingredients to be a fantastic project. I would probably want to fit smoke as well

[fly boy3]

I bought a second hand Laser 61 or 62 many years ago. I put it in my Acrowot and it never missed a beat. Very old now and not supported by Laser due to its age, it currently resides in my 20 year old Skyways Hawk 70. Even the leccy boys love the engine note on low passes. No doubt at the top of premier league of model engines. Cheers

[Jon H]

Tartan, weight is something that is probably the only thing often complained about and in many respects i have never worked out why as i dont think i have ever had a nose heavy model. I had a customer call me last week in fact as he had fitted our 80 to his seagul isport 10cc and he was very excited following test running in the garden and wated to thank me for the help i had given him with a few installation questions he had. Anyway apparently there are a few of these models at his club and all carry lead, his does not carry lead with the laser fitted and he was dead chuffed about that. The performance was also really good as he was hitting 9400rpm on 12% nitro using a 14x6apc. I have to confess i have never found a side moutning to give any kind of issue but each to their own on that one.

In any event, a small light engine would be fun but it wouldnt be cost effective and wouldnt sell i dont think. It would also have to be a complete new design to make it physically small enough. But consider our 70, it hits 11k on a 12x6 apc and is no taller than most 50 4 strokes. It is longer a heavier, but with the added power that is not likely to matter.

John, Perhaps, all i know is that the 'scale only' label is a bit of a ball and chain in many respects.

Cymaz, good idea....

Phil, i would love to grab an off the shelf aerobatic model and put the combo together for shows. I am no 3d pilot (not my thing) but i dont really think that will matter. Just having an aerobatic model to show would be something new. Sadly however i would have to buy the model myself and to be honest im not keen on that idea. As i also wouldnt get paid for going to shows or get time off in lieu it is not a very attractive proposition for me personnally even though it needs to be done. It might sound selfish, but i do have a life outside of work and i will not be giving that up for free.

Flyboy, when it dies send it back and i will px it against a 70