Precedent hi boy???

[Ian Mountford]

Hi there,

A long long time ago my Father and I had the pleasure of building a Precedent hi boy from scratch and eventually flying it.

Sadly after spending what seemed like a small fortune and attending a club where everyone seemed to be crashing, we decided to cut our losses and sold up. Have to admit i still regret not sticking with it to this day.

Now my 8 year old is at the stage where he makes around 20 paper planes a day of various designs, experimenting with different wing styles etc to see which flies best.

I would love to build something similar to the hi boy with him and hopefully step into a new hobby that we can both enjoy, but unfortunately I have no idea where to start.

I would definitely like to go along the lines of a balsa kit with an i/c engine rather than electric and would appreciate any advice on which way to go.

Looking forward to your responses

[Shaunie]

Hi Ian,

I learnt on an aileron Hi-Boy and loved it, that was beck in 1985! Strangely I only threw the airframe last year!

The world has moved on a long way since then, you may like to consider a Wot4 foam-E or a Max Thrust Riot if you are joining a club and having tuition. Perhaps a Bixler if you are determined to go it alone. I strongly recommend the club route, it's about finding a club you like and taking the time to "Break the ice".

I learnt outside the club circle but I had a competent pilot to teach me so it was about the same really. Going it alone will cost a lot in broken bits.

Don't forget that your training can take place with buddy-box systems now which will make it much harder for you to crash an aircraft against the instructors wishes.

Shaunie.

Edited By Shaunie on 16/12/2015 22:40:36

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I too learnt on a Hi-Boy!

You say to want something like the Hi-Boy - balsa and IC. So while Shaunie's suggestions are great models - they don't fit your bill.

I would suggest you look at the following:

The Irvine Tutor

The Boomerang

The Arising Star

They are all pretty similar in construction and size to the Hi Boy. They are brought mainly built you just have to assemble them. If you want a true building experience then possibly a Chris Foss Wot4 - the Kit not the Ripmax ARTF. This is a bit harder to fly than the others - but as long as you get along to a good club with instruction you will be fine.

Hope that gives you a start.

BEB

PS Welcome back!

[Geoff S]

How about a DB Sport and Scale Mascot trainer? I've no personal experience of this particular model but DB is a very reputable kit supplier and I doubt they'd market anything other than a quality model.

Geoff

[Mark Kettle 1]

Ian welcome to the site, similar to the Precedent Hi Boy is the model designed by Nigel Hawes and featured within this site and in the magazine RCME. Plans and a kit of parts are available, I'll provide the links.

Chapter One build and interest thread.

**LINK**

Chapter One plan link.

**LINK**

Magazine's it featured in

Articles

RCM&E October 2014 issue preview!

 

 

RCM&E November 2014

 

 

 

 

.......and the Aileron wing featured a year later in the RCME November 2015 Magazine

 

Ian you'll find this site very helpful if your starting out again and if you take the advices from those on who contribute on here it may well save you time and money and get you in the air safely and make it fun.

Kind regards Mark.

 

 

Edited By Mark Kettle 1 on 17/12/2015 00:24:48

Edited By Mark Kettle 1 on 17/12/2015 00:26:24

Edited By Mark Kettle 1 on 17/12/2015 00:28:09

[Andy Ennis]

Posted by Geoff Sleath on 17/12/2015 00:17:18:

How about a DB Sport and Scale Mascot trainer? I've no personal experience of this particular model but DB is a very reputable kit supplier and I doubt they'd market anything other than a quality model.

Geoff

+1 for the Mascot, it's a superb trainer.

I built one to learn mode 1 controls (I was already competent on mode 2)

I later passed it on to my brother, who also learnt to fly on it.

I really can't recommend the Mascot enough!

Edited By Andy Ennis on 17/12/2015 00:31:07

[Braddock, VC]

At sussex model centre they have the chris foss uno wot which is a build it yourself kit. http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=4 The full details are here - chrisfoss.co.uk

It is very similar in construction to the high boy but ends up much lighter, it has foam wings and a ply reinforced fuselage.

It ends up ready to fly at around 4 pounds which means it will fly slowly.

The engine size recommended is 25 to 46 and my advice, if you go ahead, is buy a 46 size two stroke, it will serve you well when you move on to a more lively plane.

The kit itself is about £98 and needs covering, glue, wheels etc, I'd suggest buying those and the engine from hobbyking at their UK Warehouse, very important you get that part of the site.

I tend to recommend futaba radio equipment but it seems to be getting bad news on this site so I won't drone on about it. Suffice to say I'm happy with it and have just bought a new futaba transmitter to replace my futaba 10CG one.

The unowot is a fine flier and easy to repair if you break it.

just my 2p.

[Mark Kettle 1]

Just to say Ian the 'Chapter One' can be made and flown with either I.C. or electric Lipo powered set-up. 

Edited By Mark Kettle 1 on 17/12/2015 01:05:53

[ted hughes]

I realise you want to built a model like you and your father did, but I would recommend you learn to fly first. It sounds as if you never really got o grips with it.

Electric and foam make a good combination, clean, easy starting, resilient in crashes, and you can start out around £100.

I learnt in the 70s with Highboys, Waterhouse and Ely Superfly's etc. and they were heavy and fast. I personally would not recommend them as trainers now. An alternative might be a floater like the old-timer 3 channel kits. Just my opinion and I apologise if I am off-beam.

[Frank Skilbeck]

Ted, I would agree with you sentiments if all they want to do is fly, but we have had youngsters join our club (few and far between I'll admit) who've built and learnt to fly, believe it or not some still do enjoy the building, and of course if you've built it then you'll know how to mend it.

Here's another one to consider

But I agree don't go looking for an old Hi Boy, I had one and while they were quite a robust trainer they were quite heavy and liked to fly pretty quick, I actually progressed a lot quicker on a Cambria Instructor with a 25 engine.

[Cabbage Man]

I recall my dad making a hi boy or fatboy as it should be called. Weighed a tonne!

For absolute guarranteed fun building and super relaxing son/dad time flying, you MUST build a junior 60.

I have had complete novices fly my enlarged junior 60 in minutes and your son WILL go solo in less than 2 flights.

Its what got me hooked when someone stuffed a tx in my hand at chobham common back in the 80s.

[Cuban8]

We've discussed the merits of the Hi Boy at length on here fairly recently, but its heyday is long past and although I have fond memories of learning on one 35++ years ago, I agree that it's not the way to go in 2015. Many will disagree, but IC is not a great way to learn these days, as with so many good electric trainers around that can be quickly assembled into something that's guaranteed to fly well with a minimum of fuss, you can concentrate at the outset on learning to fly..

By all means explore the satisfaction of traditional building and learning to run IC engines as time progresses, but my advice FWIW, is to take advantage of the latest electric technology and ready to go models. Fly them to death and gain expertise without having to worry about the time and effort put into building from scratch.

Mishaps do happen, and with a traditionally built IC model even a fairly moderate 'arrival' could result in extensive repair work taking several days or even weeks to put right, putting a stop to training and usually when the weather's perfect! A crash with your pride and joy can be so traumatic for some, that the model never gets repaired. On the other hand, I've seen Wot type foamy ARTFs augered into the deck, but are back in the air within the hour after some TLC from epoxy, cyano and parcel tape - not at all pretty, however very little learning time gets lost and the more you fly, the better you'll get at it.

 

Edited By Cuban8 on 17/12/2015 10:14:11

[John Allen]

I can heartily recommend a a HobbyKing Walrus, plug'n'fly and cheap as chips. Flys really easy, cheap batteries (around £8).

Find a club a buy and brand of radio that the club instructors can buddy with you (or buy 2 transmitters, and associated wires/wireless links)

Edited By John Allen on 17/12/2015 10:21:38

[chris Bond - Bondaero]

I think the Hi boy was of its time and heavy although did from memory not suffer from the dreaded flat bottom wing section.

Although I agree that electric is the way to go nowerdays for a trainer there are not, to my surprise many balsa bespoke electric trainers available. I have however discounted many as for me shoving the lipos in from the bottom of a IC trainer design like many have done is not an electric trainer. I hate to see new flyers having to turn the model over to make it live and then having to turn it upright to fly.

Anyhow I am about to build a bit of nostalga in the form of a Kamco Kadet and would recommend it strongly.

[Engine Doctor]

As you say you would like to build a trainer can I suggest Tony Nijhuis Sky 40 trainer. It's a traditional build ,can be built as electric or as IC and is a brilliant first model. I personally think that IC is better for learning to fly as you get much longer flights per tank of fuel compared to battery . Take csome time to lookmat the other ARTF models mentioned like thecTutor , Rising Star etc .They are quick and easy to assemble IC models .Some foam models are too light and affected by light wind but should you go the electric foam model route I would suggest taking a look at @the MaxThrust Riot. It is quite robust and a bit heavier than some of the other models but flys well and handles windy weather quite well . You can also upgrade it when you want to move on to some aerobatic flight by fitting morecpowerful batteryvand a different prop .Just my opinion from helping many begginers get their wings.

[extra slim]

Some good suggestions. Reading in between the lines, the building is very important to this gentleman, for a father and son experience. the tricky thing is the progression to learning to fly with whatever you build. If both of you learning to fly is the end game, then first step is to approach a club and discuss your interests and intentions. Someone may well have a suitable trainer that you can get airtime on, whilst building your chosen model. If you go head long into a build of something you quite fancy, and then tip up to a club and ask to be taught on it...it tends not to go down that well...plus, a build can take a lot of time, and by the time he is 9 and the plane is complete he may well have lost interest, so my advice is to go along to a club, try and get something flyable by spring, get airtime, and build at the same time..(having airtime, will really accelerate the interest in the build, plus you will have members who can advise you with the build)....BTW...Although popular, I found the Hi boy to be bottom of my recommendations, for the reasons mentioned already. Loads of better trainers in my opinion, now and at the time.

Good luck

[Keith Evans 3]

HI .I'd second the SKY 40 .

Have a look at some of the review comments on this site .

[Robin Colbourne]

Hi Ian

I ran an adult education course for a couple of years in which I taught 45 people to build and fly. In addition I used to give one to one lessons using a buddy box, so I got to fly a great many HiBoys as well as just about every other trainer that was around at the time.

If you really want to build a model, you could look on the likes of Gumtree, Ebay and Preloved to see what unstarted kits are on offer. You might pick something up for a song.

As others have said, the Hiboy was heavy, so a less than perfect landing would break the saddles holding the noseleg which would result in it getting torn out, and usually a broken prop too. If you could get the softer Micromold saddle clamps they stood up better than the SLEC ones supplied in the kit.

The Mk1 HiBoy (identified by the longer tank cover and steeper windcreen) had its main gear too far back, so would need incredible distances to get airborne as built.

I found some people could cope with a four channel model straight away, whereas others, generally the 50 year olds upward, were better off with a three channel model with rudder/elevator/thottle.

A few models of the period that really stood out for the period were:

MFA Yamamoto 3 Channel - Superb model for older fliers, rubber banded on main gear, steerable noseleg, all sheet balsa fuselage and tail surfaces and a strong foam veneered wing. Don't fly in a strong wind though as the flat bottom wing doesn't penetrate that well.

DB Tyro One pupil built one of these and flew it from take off to landing (albeit in flat calm conditions) on only his second go with an R/C model. He was a retired British Airways Concorde engineer, o it was a beautifully prepared model, but even so.. .

DB Mascot - Nice model, but the one I flew had a vicious flick inot a spin if you stalled it. It might may have been just that one though.

Precedent Flyboy - Incredibly difficult on the ground, Once in the air it was ok, but needed more fin area.

Cambria Instructor - Nice tough model available as for a 20 or a 40, mine chugged around on an OS20 four stroke.

Thunder Tiger Trainer - Flew nicely The Mk 2 had some interesting features to help it go together quickly.

Irvine Tutor/Boomerang/Arising Star All these type models are good trainers but can be a bit delicate if you cartwheel them. Expect to split the covering, and get some splits in the ribs. They are ok if you don't mind a model with a few patches on it or are happy to buy new wings and tails as spares.

There is a lot to be said for starting with a two channel glider which you can practice gliding into some long grass from a hand launch. Once you get the hang of the flare and landing, it won't be a big deal when you move on to landing your power model.

There is also as others have said, a lot to be gained by starting with a tough electric powered foam model, which you can learn to fly on without worrying about cantankerous engines and covering damage on every flight.

One thing I would say, the bigger the model, the slower it appears in the air, and that is a big help when learning, so your brain can keep up with what it is doing.

Good luck!

 

 

 

Edited By Robin Colbourne on 17/12/2015 13:38:55

Edited By Robin Colbourne on 17/12/2015 13:59:01

[Peter Miller]

Or why not go for this, the SLEC Sky .40

**LINK**

This is a SLEC kit complete down to tank etc and superbly die cut. design by Tony Nijhuis.

[Andy48]

Posted by Engine Doctor on 17/12/2015 10:33:24:

As you say you would like to build a trainer can I suggest Tony Nijhuis Sky 40 trainer. It's a traditional build ,can be built as electric or as IC and is a brilliant first model. I personally think that IC is better for learning to fly as you get much longer flights per tank of fuel compared to battery .

When I learned to fly, I found 10 minute flights were plenty long enough which any decent electric trainer will achieve.

Edited By Andy48 on 17/12/2015 17:55:58

[Ian Mountford]

Hi all, never expected so many responses so quickly, but thanks to you all.

Have to admit you've given me a lot to think about and I think I'll spend the next few weeks lookinf around and visiting a club or two.

Again thanks to you all.

[Mark Kettle 1]

No problem Ian.

[Cabbage Man]

Ian,

Dont be put off by any club that wants to prevent your lad flying. SOme are quite negative about kids.

A good club will have him on the buddy box and flying if they have any sense.

Your post reminded me of very good times with my dad building and flying together. We still talk about those times now.

If you are anywhere near Hampshire, do say as Id be happy to help.