is HK the cheapest

[Don Fry]

Still had the soul of a shopkeeper.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Granville f f fetch a cloth

John

[AVC]

The 15 quid threshold is due to a waiver in the current EU Customs legislation (the waiver is ten pounds indeed, but there's a bit of "relax" approach in all EU countries).
But this is coming to an end, I'm afraid; the first of May 2016, the new Customs Code, the Ucc, enters into force, and amongst other changes, the new leguslation withdraws this waiver.
The likelyhood is that all member states will apply the new rules strictly, as the EU Commission will be looking quite close to all new rules that imply increasing in Customs duties (import duties are a big part O EU budget, unlike Vat which is "local" income)
In terms of Customs value, authorities are also quite aware of practices like the one of Hk to declare a "made up" value (don't worry that they may read this, I'm not teaching them anything...), and they may ask, not for an invoice but for a transaction record (paypal, bank,...).
All this is obviuosly applicable to any shipment coming from outside of the EU or Turkey
So, another good reason to buy 'local'

[Dave Bran]

Recently bought two USA sourced (only place made and available) items,cost £121 inc postage. Was charged £50 duty/handling. Hey Ho.............

I have since wasted considerable time trying to buy something(s) that should be readily available in the UK as they are essential for other items that are being sold and are a frequent replacement part suiting volume handling.

No chance, the ONLY sources are the USA, where the initiating supplier for these Chinese made items is, and Hobby King International. Choice?

[Phil Green]

Banggood are very cheap, everything I've had from them has been fine, as good as anywhere else.

They have two separate websites, Worldwide and Europe.

Its not always easy to find the stuff you need, certainly not as easy as HK's site, but its absolutely huge.

With all worldwide vendors, always try the UK option first if there is one, then EU, then world.

Cheers
Phil (enforced cheapskate)

[Glyn44]

Anyone know if there is a way out of this...

I have ordered a load of stuff from HK that really I need to finish a model. I did not notice that one small item, a prop, was on back order. I know they won't split an order, but I have waited over two weeks, not even dispatches as yet. Is there any way I can ask to forget the prop, remove it from the order, so I can continue my build?

Frustrated Glyn.

[rcaddict]

yes just go into your order status and you can select cancel back-order item

you will be given bonus points as a credit

or you can do it through live chat

[Geoff S]

Posted by Donald Fry on 22/12/2015 16:25:22:

Still had the soul of a shopkeeper.

It's funny, when we ran our TV shop the only people we had to watch carefully were those who didn't trust us.

Many of our customers were 2nd or 3rd generation. Their fathers and grandfathers had bought watches and jewellery from my grandfather and radio, airguns, cameras from my father. He sold HiFi when it was an esoteric interest of very few and attracted customers from a wide area, many of whom became friends. He never made much money but a lot of friends

I think the same attitude prevailed in model shops. it certainly did in the ones I used and the cycle shops I frequent are the same.

Geoff

[Erfolg]

I have been looking at the issues raised by AVC.

It is obvious that AVC does not deal with HK, or he would be aware that the practices he indicates as undertaken by HK have not been possible for some time.

More worrying is the changes to EU import regulations. These do tend to indicate that much of the Eu's detractors has substance. In that its appetite for money is insatiable, as it increasingly becomes ossified. Those who advocate that the UK leaves the EU, before it collapses due to its own inadequacies could be correct. Reducing the living standards of its citizens and abandoning any pretence of free trade perhaps says more about the union than any other arguments.

With respect to HK, I would assume that their approach will be to establish one super distribution warehouse within the EU to deal with EU orders. Although the response of the EU in the long term will almost certainly be to drive the cost of trading within the EU up to the highest cost base, to maximise their tax take. Yet in the short term business will do what it must to thrive under current rules.

Unfortunately for the advocates of the LMS, non of the EU changes will save them. Advocates of "free trade" and capitalism will take the view that they do not deserve to survive. For my self , I take the view that many were just to inefficient in their trading practises to survive when efficient traders and the inter net arrived.

At present HK are amongst the best value retailers in the world.

[Braddock, VC]

I've dealt with HK via the uk, europe and international warehouses, I've only had problems with servos from the uk w/h which they replaced pdq. Many of the criticism of customer service are from those who expect hk to drop everything and cater solely for them.

I won't say I'm an out and out fan but I've certainly had better customer service from hk than I have had from some firms who are uk based.

[AVC]

Erfolg, obviously I don't deal with Hk too much, I clarified this in my first post in this thread.
Regarding the EU, and with all due respect, I think that there's no clear idea what the EU is, what are the real problems, (much more than appetite for money...), and where it goes. With no intention whatsoever to open a political discussion, I'll simply explain my point of view.
Many people in UK and accross Europe are against the EU. I'm among these people, but my reasons are different to the vast majority. Most anti EU base their position on economic arguments, like you have done, but in my opinion the biggest problem is not that, the problem is that the EU is becoming a supra state, above each individual country. The EU legislation defines how much the countries can spend on health, social security, defense,... There's an "internal security" policy in the EU, a Europol, etc etc. And all these institutions are elected via "indirect democracy" whatever that means. Where that leaves the people? Basically as a tool to maintain and sustain such system. Is this good? Definitely no.
Having said that, and from a practical point of view, do we want to apply for a visa each time that we take the Eurotunnel to spend one day in Calais ( well, that's no longer possible, Calais is a "lawless city"...) or do we want to pay the French bread in Asda 6.5% more expensive because the flour from France attracs import duty? Or do we want that Nissan decides to move the Sunderland plant, the technical centre In Cranfield amd the design centre in Paddington, to somewhere like France, destroying around 40.000 employees in UK? I'm just asking...
Braddock, I stopped using Hk when I had to order always, a couple of "spare" servos each time because I knew that at least one in the batch will not work. If they have improved quality and customer service, good for them, I'll keep dealing with the local business as long as I can

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I'd just welcome the chance to examine reasoned debate between those with detailed knowledge of how we benefit or suffer from membership of the EU and have the opportunity to vote again, having been suckered into voting to remain in a mutual trading organisation (the Common Market) of 9 countries which is turning into a federation of ever increasing numbers of states. My dim and distant recollection of the 1975 referendum was that there was no indication (at least to a politically naive 19 year old) that our law courts would be over-ruled by European courts, laws and rules be imposed by a vaguely representative body of largely unknown elected politicians and fiscal policies be dictated by other countries.

And even when France was a proper foreign country, we didn't need visas, let's pay our farmers and millers enough to make bread flour for Asda - and I have to wonder how much MORE attractive to Nissan we could become, freed of some of the excesses of EU policies that we sheepishly adopt without question!

Yes - I'm an "anti" by inclination but I am ready and willing to listen to both sides...

Edited By Martin Harris on 23/12/2015 01:51:37

[Robert Putley 1]

Martin, hi,

1975 I voted against the EU, as at the time I had read that one of the aims of the EU was to eventually lead to a single parliament.

Having seen the poblems in France in '68, and the reds in Italy, I thought, no fear !!

One also has to think of Cameron's agenda...If he loses the vote on the EU, there is a good chance that Scotland would want to break free to remain free (god only knows why) to become a member state of the EU, Cameron would then go down in history as the PM who not only pulled the UK out of the EU, but also broke up the Union. NOT a legacy Cameron would like.

Politians!!

Edited By Pete B - Moderator on 23/12/2015 09:05:23

[AVC]

Martin, I'm with you 100%, in fact 120%...

The UK had a referendum in 1975 to ratify the Roma treaty and join the European Communities. I wasn't in UK at the time (I was only 3 in 1975...) but I bet that the information that the people was given was quite biased (this is how referenda normally work). Robert has made a very valid point here: he read that the Roma treaty aimed to the creation of a European parliament (good for you Robert), but probably none of you were aware of other "little details" included in the treaty which had already the seeds of what the EU is today, like for example the need for the member states to accept the so called "Community acquis" which is the group of treaties, laws, regulation, Court decisions, doctrine of EU Institution etc, that existed in 1975 OR THAT WILL EXIST IN THE FUTURE. In other words, more than 67 of UK said "yes" to a blank cheque in favour of the ECC - EC - EU. How many of this 67% knew that?? I bet that not too many.

In Spain the situation was even worst: we didn't have any referendum, the relevant government (PSOE) signed the adhesion to the treaty, and only afterward there was a big marketing campaign to convince the Spanish people that that was good: what I remember from that time as that we were told that we could buy a BMW and the same price as in Germany, and that our salaries would be like the German ones. What they did not specify is that the price of BMWs in Germany would raise up the Spanish level, and the salaries in Germany would fall to (close to) Spanish levels.

I'd like to clarify that I am an obstinate anti-EU. I'm against the EU because I love Europe, and paradoxically (or not...) the EU is killing the European identity by killing the people's identity. The "practical" aspects I mentioned before is just part of the ammunition that the "Empire" (the EU) will use to fight the "rebels" (UK for the time being), in the hope that other potential rebels will feel discouraged to leave the "United States of Europe" in the future. For that reason, I don't believe that the "Brexit" is the solution, the solution is the "Eurexit", i.e. all European countries leaving the union. I know it's just a dream for the time being, but this is where all Europeans should aim.

We could keep talking about the "benefits" of the EU, like the TTIP and what this will mean for the people in both sides of the pond (it's much, much more that a simple Free Trade Agreement), or the "double game" of the EU Institutions, that claims more and more sovereign to the member states, and at the same time promotes nonsenses "nationalist" streams like the Scottish one in UK, the Catalonian one in Spain or the Brittany one in France, to mention just a few, but I'm afraid that we are going a bit off of a tangent...

[David Ovenden]

This debate now seems really "off topic". New thread needed?

[rcaddict]

I only asked if HK was in fact the cheapest supplier !!!

[AVC]

Posted by oldgit on 23/12/2015 09:01:34:

I only asked if HK was in fact the cheapest supplier !!!

[Erfolg]

You may have asked the question is HK the cheapest.

I will go as far as to say that at present it is the best value, along with generally much lower prices than other retailers. It is particularly in the area of small value items where the savings are the greatest.

What about the quality aspect of these small value items. i would say that in general the quality is identical to anything available from UK based retailers. There are some areas where a definite Asian style approach is apparent, that is snakes, more often than not, the type sold is typically the solid wire wire type. I have not seen the ribbed Sulivan type or the Golden Wire  Sullivan type(which are far superior to the Bowden Cable type).

As has been highlighted by others, at least 90% of our hobby materials originates from Asia and China in particular. It is probably no accident that HK is based in Hong Kong, where it can interact with local producers, with the lowest cost base, to obtain the best prices and quality. Some of the savings we see as lower prices, particularly when items are sourced from the International Warehouse.

It does amuse me that many advocates of Global trade and the free movement of peoples, then get upset, by claiming that taking advantage of the Global economy is tax evasion or unfair trading.

I guess what we are sometimes (suddenly) made aware of is that all aspects of life is dominated by politics.Living in the UK it is the EU that is most apparent and significant to our daily lives.

 

Edited By Erfolg on 23/12/2015 10:01:33

Edited By Erfolg on 23/12/2015 10:04:14

[Bob Cotsford]

Old'un, the simple answer is that HK is one of the cheapest sources of modelling products, though as Phil pointed out there are other Far East companies getting in on the act, eg BangGood.

[AVC]

Posted by Erfolg on 23/12/2015 09:59:50:

It does amuse me that many advocates of Global trade and the free movement of peoples, then get upset, by claiming that taking advantage of the Global economy is tax evasion or unfair trading.

Me particularly get really upset by both, the globalization (this "borderless world" nonsense) and the unfair trade. It may be legal but it's unfair to produce items in a country where salaries are 1/10th the ones in Europe and the working hours are double than in Europe. The European producers have only two options: shut down and enlarge unemployment lists, or become slaves to work, getting rid of all advantages achieved in the last century. The result is the paradox of the poverty amongst richness that we are living now in Europe.

Happy Christmas to everybody

[Glyn44]

Many thanks to oldgit,

Done as you said, worked fine, order now dispatched.

Cheers, Glyn.