Lipo battery brand choice

[Tomtom39]

I suspect that a large proportion of both fixed and rotary wing modelling community have either dabbled , partly gone over or fly electric only Herein lies the question . What brand of battery would you feel confident buying? It's one that I'm regularly asked at the field .

In my case returning from a long break in aeromodelling , I rather liked the idea of a clean airframe (mainly in 10cc - 50cc airframes ie 6 plus cell requirement) , less noise (In general) etc . I bought some batteries ranging from hefty £150 plus 6 cells (Thunder power) , Overlanders (red and black), Flite power (as was) , Rhino (v cheap) , Turnigy, Turnigy (Nano tech) , Hyperion etc. Over the last two years they have all been used with a minimum of sixty cycles in various models with one of the Rhino's now on its 350 th cycle.

I'm fairly fastidious in both keeping an eye on how many charges I carry out on individual packs (I have a very large number!) . I try and retain a minimum of 25% charge at the end of each flight and I store the packs at recommended "storage" voltage ie approx 40% when not flying for gaps of two/three weeks plus. I have access to a storage unit (my old vintage car envelope) that allows me keep the batteries at a set temp of 17 c and minimal humidity. So why do I find packs still puffing up and ending up unbalanced between cells (most noticeable are the Turnigy Nanotechs) .All are 30C plus and I have quality esc's . So what am I doing wrong?

My recent experience with Hobbyking has led me to drop them as a supplier (I will only now use them if I can't source what I need elsewhere! Sorry Pete - if you are still working for them. Customer service is still very poor!)

I'd be interested to hear how others in the forum have fared with their battery packs - or is this a case of hit and miss ! I have by the way spent a huge amount of money and with hindsight rather wish I'd stayed on the IC route (I'm starting to make the switch) . I will maintain the odd model using a maximum of 3 cells (2200 mAh) , or combination in series/parallel.

[MattyB]

Uh oh - I suspect you will get a lot of highly variable answers to this question and few conclusions! My 2ps worth...

I'm afraid the Nanotechs are well known for their poor cycle life - it seems to have nothing to do with how you treat them, they just love to puff! I therefore avoid them at all costs, but I have had good luck with Gens Ace and the Zippy Compacts from HK. I agree though that QC with HK can be hit and miss; that I guess is part of the reason they cost so little. I have heard good things about Optpower packs, but then they are a huge amount more upfront. You pays your money...

[The Wright Stuff]

Well, not sure you are doing anything wrong, Tomtom. Shouldn't we just see batteries as consumables, to be replaced periodically, regardless of how well they are looked after?

[Tomtom39]

I guess that says it all . Buy the cheapest and bin on a regular basis. Hence my having a rethink and considering going down the IC glow /Petrol route .

Matty .I have three Optopower 6 cell lipo's . Two are fine however the third has started to lose balance on one of the cells. No issue on service with them . Highly recommended.

[The Wright Stuff]

Posted by Tomtom39 on 31/05/2016 16:29:25:

I guess that says it all . Buy the cheapest and bin on a regular basis. Hence my having a rethink and considering going down the IC glow /Petrol route .

TBH, I'm not really sure what point you're making. If a LiPo is used for 60 cycles, what's that per flight? How many flights do you get out of a gallon of fuel?

If cost is the only issue, then surely the relevant figure to compare is the average cost per flight?

I've used both the Turnigy packs (the ordinary blue ones) and Zippy Compacts, with no issues to date, and that's over a couple of years and maybe 30-40 cycles each. I'm happy with that - I treat every cycle between now and when they inevitably expire to be a bonus...

[Bob Cotsford]

And then again I've had issues with both GensAce and NanoTech. Zippy and Rhino do seem to last quite well for fairly economical packs. As TWS said, I think they need to be treated as consumables. If you get a pack that lasts it is mostly down to luck of the draw more than the manufacturer or supplier.

[Cabbage Man]

Your regime for storage etc looks A1 and not far off what i do.

After quite a few years, I've decided it makes no difference which brand you use as whilst they can be tested and cell matched in the factory, its your use that determines there lifespan. i would guess that well over 90% of the flyers i see use turnigy or one of there variants . This includes drones, 2m pattern ships, gliders , 10 cell aerobats etc. i can't recall seeing a top end lipo for years! i certainly avoid the very cheap stuff .

I get probably 1 out of 10 puff up and they get relegated to the low drain vintage models. New stuff goes into the warbirds and bigger models. If any cell fails, its binned. It is luck really whether the internal resistance of a cell goes wrong and puffs. The only thing i can think causes puffing is excessive long periods of full discharge ( full power flying at over 1c discharge ). Prevent that and you may prevent puffing.

I fly pretty much exclusively nano tech bar a few zippies. I've not binned one yet.  id also say that flying electric is  not a cost based decision in my book , more about clean flying and low noise. if cheap flying is the aim, then go petrol. 

 

 

 

 

Edited By The Wrinkled Prune on 31/05/2016 17:41:58

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I've been very happy with the cheap and cheerful Dynamics from Ripmax. I'm too disorganised to keep records of my batteries, charge them when I think about it, run them in EDFs at at least average 15C discharge rates (4 minutes to just about empty) and very rarely store them at mid charge.

About 3 years ago, I lent one cheap and cheerful Tipple pack to a friend who parked his model up a tree for a week with it still connected. A quick trick charge to get its totally flat cells above 3V and it continues to give service with only minor degradation.

I had one Nanotech - it gave up after 3 or 4 EDF cycles...budget brands for me all day!

At the end of the day, they're only for electric toys anyway - my real models have engines!

[leccyflyer]

I have had nothing but good experiences with the G-Power packs from Gliders. Very well built, deliver the goods and don't puff up. Reccomended.

[kc]

I have just completed 710 flights in 2 years flying of a modified Avicraft Moronic ( bit like a Wot4 for comparison purposes) using Zippy 4S 3000 20C. 5 packs were purchased and 1 failed during that time . So average of 142 flights per pack. Works out at less than 1 penny a flight and the cost is still reducing because 4 are still OK.

Compare to the .46 two stroke that was previously in the model. How much fuel would it use for a 6 minute full throttle flight? Perhaps 4 ounces? If so 40 flights per gallon. What does a gallon of glow fuel cost now? I remember my last gallon of straight castor cost 12 pounds, so that would be 30 pence a flight. More if you use 5 percent and at todays prices. ( lets ignore the cost of electricity to charge the Lipos and say it cost as much as the cost of replacing fuel pumps and starter batteries for glow)

Electric is quiet flight and I can fly on extra times at my club if I fly electric. No problems starting just plug in and fly. No messy oil on the model.

The electric motor & ESC cost far less than an OS46!

[The Wright Stuff]

Indeed. It certainly seems clear cut for this size of model (although, of course, cost isn't everything)!

Would be interesting to see if this is still the case for running much bigger stuff (say 8S to 12S LiPo packs versus petrol)...

[Tomtom39]

Undoubtedly there are some excellent reasons for using electric and for most this may be the way forward. My particular issue here is finding a battery manufacturer whose product and service I can rely on. In my case I'm looking for 6S 5000's as a starting point . Ranging from 30C upwards.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by kc on 01/06/2016 12:30:12:

I have just completed 710 flights in 2 years flying of a modified Avicraft Moronic ( bit like a Wot4 for comparison purposes) using Zippy 4S 3000 20C. 5 packs were purchased and 1 failed during that time . So average of 142 flights per pack. Works out at less than 1 penny a flight and the cost is still reducing because 4 are still OK.

Where did you buy your batteries for less than £1.42 each? Did that include postage?

[David Pearce 4]

In the 3S to 4S range, another vote for Zippy lipos. Quite a few of our club are using them. I also like Dynamic which I've had a lot of use out of with no problems. Standard Turnigy are good value but Nano Tech, in my opinion, are poor as they swell easily.

[MattyB]

Posted by Martin Harris on 01/06/2016 13:47:07:

Posted by kc on 01/06/2016 12:30:12:

I have just completed 710 flights in 2 years flying of a modified Avicraft Moronic ( bit like a Wot4 for comparison purposes) using Zippy 4S 3000 20C. 5 packs were purchased and 1 failed during that time . So average of 142 flights per pack. Works out at less than 1 penny a flight and the cost is still reducing because 4 are still OK.

Where did you buy your batteries for less than £1.42 each? Did that include postage?

Hey, give him a break, he was only ~1000% out...

[Pete B]

Zippys, Turnigy work fine for me. Only one GensAce, a 5S which is still going strong after 3yrs+. Not so keen on the Zippy Compacts which seem to run out of ooomph.

I've been messing with MR's recently and bought some of the HK Multistar 10C 'multirotor' packs. Not at all impressed - LVC cutting in before the pack is half-depleted. A Zippy 3S 2200 40C on my Quanum Nova gives me an easy 8 minutes whereas the Multistar 3S 3000 goes to LV after about 5 mins. The 3S 5200 Multistar, on a larger quad, went to LVC after taking out only 2500mA, despite a maximum momentary draw of no more than 32A with an average of about 22A.

10C should be good for 52A draw from a 5200 pack and it seems to be falling well short of that, so where HK get the idea from that the Multistars are good for MR's is a bit beyond me. I shall avoid them in future.

Pete

[iqon]

Cheapest battery that meets the requirements.....they dont last forever you know, no matter what you buy

[The Wright Stuff]

Just to further complicate matters, it probably also depends upon how often you fly. The best battery in terms of cost per flight during the battery's lifetime might be different depending upon whether you fly every day, or once a month. Some brands may store better, and others may cycle better...

[Tomtom39]

As a rule of thumb , I fly at least two sometimes four days in the week during the flying season (subject to our weather!) . During which I will expect to use the pack once or if charging at the field sometimes twice (max 1c) with about half an hour between flights to allow cells to settle post flight. I will normally expect to fly approx six times (average duration five mins ) with about a 15/20 min break to allow the esc to cool down (I usually take a number of models ).

[GrahamC]

For what it's worth.... over seven years of flying.... and far more than 60 cycles on many of my batteries, my thoughts would be....

Blue Turnigy. Does what it says in the tin. Good quality balance leads, last well and very cheap. Had loads, never had a dud one. Would buy again.

Yellow Zippy compacts. Only had these more recently but good impressions so far. Seem to work well and cheap too.

Overlander. OK lasted much longer than 60 cycles but failed after a while. might buy again but only if I'm not prepared to wait for delivery of other options.

Dynamic. Good batteries with plenty of punch. say they are 30c and probably are. Spoiled by very stiff balance leads that come unsoldered very easily. I would buy again but would tape the balance lead to the pack before use.

Gens Ace. Had them some while ago now. Lasted very well.

Haiyin. Seem big batteries for capacity. Have only lasted moderately well.

Turnigy A Spec. Look like they might not last so long. Maybe twenty cycles in they are slowing down on the balance charger. Mind you they are being abused in mini quads, so maybe thats a bit unfair.

I've never been very good at storage charging my batteries, but I don't keep them in the shed with its temperature extremes.

And the winner is...[for me!] .. Blue Turnigy / Zippy

[MattyB]

Posted by The Wright Stuff on 01/06/2016 15:59:06:

Just to further complicate matters, it probably also depends upon how often you fly. The best battery in terms of cost per flight during the battery's lifetime might be different depending upon whether you fly every day, or once a month. Some brands may store better, and others may cycle better...

In general you need to be more diligent about ensuring high C rated batteries are kept at the storage voltage - I did read a really good explanation of why this was online somewhere, but I can't seem to find it now.

[Masher]

I hear many stories at the patch about how great brand x,y,z are and how bad brand a,b,c are but there is no evidence or measurements to back this up. Somebody buys a new battery and suddenly it's the best they ever had!

I have accumulated a fair amount of various brands and capacities and have yet to have any issues. I admit to continually abusing the batteries (I have been reported to the authorities but who cares) and they are fine. Some have let me down after being shortened following an arrival but fair cop.

I think that in general, considering the hostile environment and conditions they are operated in, LiPo's fair very well.

[Erfolg]

It seems we all have issues with Nanotech and puffing.

I have experienced only good service from Zippy.

I also use Turnigy Lipos with similar good results.

Rhino experiences have been mixed.

Flightmax also very good.

Perhaps it is the bad experiences that are more useful. I used to use Overlander (supreme?) and a very expensive Lipo that was heavily advertised in all the mags. Which proves to me that a reassuringly expensive Lipo is no guarantee of quality, nor extravagant claims, or reviews.

Up to recently I flew a minimum of 3 times a week, I used to find that my packs would show signs of failing at 12-18 months, which would indicate that all will have seen about 150-200 cycles. I am only flying about 1-2 times a week now

I will confess that some have faired poorly due to me, that is once or twice running the Lipos to totally empty, whilst preparing for the "A" test. Initially the meter shows zero, a little later there is some volt recovery. They will recharge, although the performance and durability has been compromised. The other thing I have done very rarely is to flog the Lipo to near its "C" rating. Neither seems to be good.

Rather surprisingly I often land at about 50-60% left. Yet running on a few minutes more, or constant max throttle seems to do all the damage.

[Cabbage Man]

Some years ago , i read about an idea to gently puncture the lipo to relieve the puffing gas. I did it once but had to wear double bicycle clips to do it and even then wasn't totally comfortable .

Is this feasible and what exactly happens when a cell puffs?

[Keith Berriman]

I have two Nanotech batteries that swell up after flight and warm.. I am of the opinion that its the air under the heatshrink causing the swelling with the heat as when they cool down the swelling effect has gone. On a recharge no adverse effect on the heatshrink Any comments welcomed