Martin Harris - Moderator Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 There is a long standing "best practice" adopted by the BMFA handbook which advises that transmitters should be left on the flight line while retrieving models from the flying field. In the days of 27 and 35 MHz with closely spaced narrow bandwidth channels, especially with the relative rarity of EP models, this was undoubtedly good advice, where glitching or loss of control of a model flying over another transmitter was a serious possibility. However, now that 2.4 GHz frequency hopping systems are almost universal, at least in my club where the sight of a silver protuberance is enough to provoke comment, and powerful electric powered models are commonplace, it may be time to consider the implications of walking close to a model which could burst into life if someone should accidentally knock the transmitter or block the signal? I conducted a quick test today - left my (IC) model by the flight line while another model was in flight and went for a walk. From the far end of our field (and down an earth bank out of line of sight until I got a low signal quality warning), not a single glitch was spotted by my observer while each deliberate control input was acknowledged. This was hardly an exhaustive survey but it did suggest that a model could be placed a couple of yards from an operating transmitter while full control from a distant transmitter was maintained - a much more demanding test than the overflight of a transmitter out on the field by another model. Yes, approaching the model from behind to disarm or pick it up should minimise the risks, but at some point you would be vulnerable to an out of control model at relatively close range. So, is it time to rethink the guidance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouncebounce crunch Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 safety is always on my mind as i don't want to injure anybody, lose a model or my club membership because of unsafe practices. what i do is take my transmitter with me to retrieve any model even if i taxi back the edge of the pilot box. in a crash situation it is handy to have transmitter still activated so you can look at the reciever for signal loss or waggle the sticks when trying to find a model lost in trees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trebor Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 At my club we leave the transmitter at the flight line, go to the model and switch off. I'm always worried someone might stand on it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Cooper Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Yup, with the advent of 2.4Ghz radios and also the increased use of electric powered models, we (Wellingborough Club) have long since abandoned the practice of leaving the Tx behind when retrieving a model. B.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I always take my TX with me to retrieve a model as leaving a TX on the floor is asking for it to get booted over. If that happens the sticks, including the throttle, can be bumped and the idling IC model (i know you could turn it off) or electric model you cant turn off will then take on a life of its own. I agree that the recommendation was made back when frequencies would bleed slightly into eachother and to be honest those days are gone, even with the final versions of 35 meg gear i really dont see it as an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin 216 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Agree with Bouncebounce crunch this is a practice I also use. With the rising popularity of electric models and the fact that they are armed when the battery if fitted and connected it is safer to take the Tx when retrieving a model, as you remain in full control. Also when retrieving a model from the strip other fliers are aware of the retrieval and do not overfly until 'clear' is called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwain Dibley. Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Ditto the above, we also tend to retrieve "two up", with one person watching the sky, just in case. Also one on the TX and one holdingretreiving the model. D.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Green Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 PANDAS ruling for 2.4 is to take your tranny with you. Its dangerous to leave a tranny behind whilst an electric model is still live on the strip. You need to be in control at all times, not 50 yards from the tranny when it falls over and opens the throttle! Cheers Phil Edited By Phil Green on 10/03/2017 10:02:53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I agree with everything that's been said here. I have been sneakily breaking our club code of practice for a while, for these very good safety reasons. I have just suggested on our club forum that we consider changing this outdated practice. Hopefully, someone from the BMFA will read this thread and review their advice too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangster Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Some interesting thoughts there. Certainly it must be foolish to leave the transmitter behind on a live model. Electrics are particularly scary. surely a good practice to be developed it a disarming switch on the tx. This should become as important and mandatory as setting failsafes and maybe the duty of safety officers to check and advise. From personal experience it is usually possible to set up one way or another on most programmable transmitters. Unfortunately it is impossible ( without surgery) on what is probably the most pppular tx out there. Don't know if this is addressed on the later models. Daft considering they are probably aimed primarily at BNF electric models Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iqon Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Walk out with transmitter and walk back with 2 items - Its not going to happen..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Posted by iqon on 10/03/2017 11:06:29: Walk out with transmitter and walk back with 2 items - Its not going to happen..... It's not going to happen to you. You get somebody else to do your walking! Edited By Gary Manuel on 10/03/2017 11:20:49 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trebor Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Trouble is you could always knock the sticks / switches walking out to get your model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Stainforth Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I find the BMFA rule book a bit peculiar and rather old fashioned and prefer the AMA rules and guidelines in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 Posted by trebor on 10/03/2017 11:26:56: Trouble is you could always knock the sticks / switches walking out to get your model At least you would be in a position to un-knock that switch or stick. Like the majority posting here, many regular flyers at my club have chosen to ignore the BMFA advice on this and opted for what they feel is the safer option (myself included). Having lost a model to a broken gimbal many years ago, I've long suspected that the stick could have been kicked when the transmitter was lying on the ground - so I also take my transmitter with me to retrieve IC models. I've been an advocate of setting a throttle lock for many years but switches can be knocked or forgotten (although I realised the other week that I now switch my lock on automatically). I also use a mechanically locking switch but this may not be an option on the majority of transmitters. I think that it's time for the BMFA to review their advice - perhaps one of their representatives who post on this forum might like to take this forward or comment on any reasoning that makes it remain valid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrman Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 BMFA "Guidance for Test Candidates" specifically FW 2016 Edition A test cl. h) states that "it should be agreed beforehand whether the Tx is taken with them" when retrieving the model whereas for the B test cl. m) states "the candidate should NOT take the Tx with them"! Contradictory or what? Surely the Guidance notes should be consistent. My recommendation is to take the Tx with you unless it's not on 2.4 gHz when the Tx is left with a "competent" person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Posted by jrman on 10/03/2017 12:59:23: BMFA "Guidance for Test Candidates" specifically FW 2016 Edition A test cl. h) states that "it should be agreed beforehand whether the Tx is taken with them" when retrieving the model whereas for the B test cl. m) states "the candidate should NOT take the Tx with them"! Contradictory or what? Surely the Guidance notes should be consistent. My recommendation is to take the Tx with you unless it's not on 2.4 gHz when the Tx is left with a "competent" person. Good advice - unless you happen to be taking your B test at the time, in which case you will fail. This inconsistency needs resolving. It is also of note that there are only 2 options of what you should do with the transmitter: 1. Take it with you. 2. Leave it with a competent person. Leaving the transmitter "on the flight line" (as stated in the original post and in our club code of practice) is not a valid option unless it is in the hands of a competent person. I can't find anything in the Handbook that allows the Transmitter to be left on the floor on the flight line - but I may be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons - BMFA Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Posted by jrman on 10/03/2017 12:59:23: BMFA "Guidance for Test Candidates" specifically FW 2016 Edition A test cl. h) states that "it should be agreed beforehand whether the Tx is taken with them" when retrieving the model whereas for the B test cl. m) states "the candidate should NOT take the Tx with them"! Contradictory or what? Surely the Guidance notes should be consistent. My recommendation is to take the Tx with you unless it's not on 2.4 gHz when the Tx is left with a "competent" person. 2017 Guidance document is at **LINK** The gudiance is consistent in there. Edited By Andy Symons - BMFA on 10/03/2017 14:12:38 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 A supposedly competent person was restraining a Moki 210 engined model while the owner turned to pick up his transmitter - which cost him three fingers as the model taxied into them. Pick your competent person with care! Edited By Martin Harris on 10/03/2017 14:19:48 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 10/03/2017 14:10:23: 2017 Guidance document is at **LINK** Andy - I'd forgotten that there is a dedicated scheme website and searched for this latest document under the achievement scheme documentation on the main BMFA site (https://www.bmfa.org/Downloads/RC-Achievement-Scheme-Downloads). Perhaps these records should be deleted and links to the new site added (more?) prominently? Edited By Martin Harris on 10/03/2017 14:30:34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Ah - that's good. Thanks Andy! The inconsistency has been removed in the 2017 Guidance document. I can carry on doing what I've been doing, even when I'm taking my "B" later this year. Just need to get our club code of practice updated to allow it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons - BMFA Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Posted by Martin Harris on 10/03/2017 14:21:41: Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 10/03/2017 14:10:23: 2017 Guidance document is at **LINK** Andy - I'd forgotten that there is a dedicated scheme website and searched for this latest document under the achievement scheme documentation on the main BMFA site (https://www.bmfa.org/Downloads/RC-Achievement-Scheme-Downloads). Perhaps these records should be deleted and links to the new site added (more?) prominently? Edited By Martin Harris on 10/03/2017 14:30:34 It's the same documents in both locations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 It is now. I see that they were updated today - thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons - BMFA Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.