Richard Harris Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 As long as they are safe and abide by the club rules then there shouldn't be a problem, we should be opening our arms out to newcomers. I remember as a kid learning to fly fix wings in the 1980's, some of the older members were quite vocal about not letting helicopters fly, it was like 'them and 'us'. Fortunately those days have gone and we except pretty every form of flying (subject to noise and a few rules), we just let each discipline fly at a time and all enjoy ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 I'm 62, and in some circles might be considered a promising young aeromodeller. Age doesn't make a jot of difference other than the number of heartbeats left to enjoy one's chosen pastime. Like many of my contemporaries, I like technology and embrace anything that comes along to help me in my hobby or outside that in 'normal' life. A bit less of the OG epithet, wouldn't go amiss after all perhaps? If you are one of those that thinks that after all the negativity and what is sure to take place again, drones are going to be the saviour of traditional aeromodelling and model flying clubs, i.e fixed wing sport/scale in all its variations and incarnations, or helis/autogyros - then I hope it keeps fine for you. I truly believe that the BMFA has made a serious misjudgement by acting hasitly and having a 'love in' with all things MR and drawing them into its wider sphere of interest and a target for the 'stuff off the multi fans', if you know what I mean. Fly drones by all means, but make your own bed to lie in and make your own case for the activity. BTW, aeromodellers are not averse to new tech and new ways of thinking within the bounds of what most of us understand to be model aircraft, but drone or multi rotor flying where the primary goal is to 'get the shot' by what in its fundamental form is merely a surveilance platform designed and programmed for that specific purpose is not what gets most of us up and out to the field, week in, week out. That's great, if it gets those disposed to filming everything in sight, over and over again or exploring the functionality of one's latest bit of kit that looks just like the one you had previously - all done legally we all hope. The BMFA has worked tirelessly to encourage youngsters into our hobby by its various initiatives to get kids and others building model aeroplanes. The benefits are well known and tried and tested. Basic understanding of materials, glues, design and construction, problem solving, simple aerodynamics, mechanical and electrical engineering, performance and efficiency of designs. Even software and programming - oh, and getting out in the fresh air. Unfortunately the X-Boxes and PlayStations are ruling the roost from the comfort of the nation's homes and kids' bedrooms despite valiant efforts to push back. Sadly, the widespread interest in things aeronautical follows a lack of air-mindedness in general these days, together with much fewer opportunities in school to follow practical skills. You really can't turn the tide and drones or no, unless someting else turns up in Micawber like fashion, the hobby of flying model aircraft will be all but gone in perhaps the next couple of decades, save a few with a different agenda. Radio Controlled Drones and Electronics for everyone else maybe Edited By Cuban8 on 08/01/2019 13:24:29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wright Stuff Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Posted by oldgit on 07/01/2019 22:38:11: just wondering if it would be a good idea to ban drones quadcopters from our club to avoid unwanted interest from the authorities in light of the recent announcements I would say that the most neutral and emotionless answer to that question would be: "...only if there is sufficient evidence that banning quadcopters would indeed promise to offer other model flying enthusiasts a more assured future..." I don't see any such evidence in the discussion so far. I don't see 'drone fliers' as any lesser mortals than traditional aeromodellers. However, we have to be pragmatic, too. No point in throwing the baby out with the bathwater if the worst does come to the worst... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McIntosh Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 One of today`s rags states that we are all to be banned from flying what they call drones within 5km of an airport, fair enough, but also that the 400ft height limit is to be reduced. I put on another thread that our landlord banned everything with rotary wings before the Gatwick fiasco but this has now been clarified to `drones` only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 The hobby has already changed. Should you ban drones? We haven't. 4 or 5 members fly them I think. Seems to be working out ok. Actually we have fewer members who regularly fly glow power now. Problem with getting drone flyers in, is, a lot are young, can't be bothered / don't want / are unable to find a club, and just want to go and fly their mobile camera platform wherever they want, I see this on non-aeromodelling forums, there are drone threads and never have I really seen any much evidence of anyone wanting anything other than getting fantastic aerial footage of their own awesome skateboard tricks (or whatever). Even if the under 18 did want to join a club they generally don't have transport and then you (or someone in the club) have all that disclosure stuff to go through to be legal - unless their parents are going to hang about while their offspring play at airborne cameras. If youngsters are interested in fixed wing I think they'll likely end up with an ARTF parkflyer type. The days where the only route was getting kids to fly the club's 40 powered trainer until they could do circuits and bumps by themselves, they're long gone. I haven't got any answers for all this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 No way should hobby drones be banned. Not good for those that use them legally, and completely unenforceable anyway. BMFA should work closely with the drone organisations and be of assistance to them, but not be responsible for them - a bit like holding your mountaineering mate on a rope after he's made a mess of his climb - but also keeping your knife handy, just in case. Vertical Limit style...good film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miketgd Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 The February Digital SL Photography magazine has a section on Drone Photography. Highlighted (page 38) is a "Know the Law" piece outlining the basic laws for Drone Flying and advice to visit www.dronesafe.uk. Good to see a mainstream magazine putting the message out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickw Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Posted by Martin McIntosh on 08/01/2019 14:19:51: One of today`s rags states that we are all to be banned from flying what they call drones within 5km of an airport, fair enough, but also that the 400ft height limit is to be reduced...................... Latest goverment proposals are here. Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Posted by oldgit on 07/01/2019 22:38:11: just wondering if it would be a good idea to ban drones from our club to avoid unwanted interest from the authorities in light of the recent announcements I've yet to see any negative article in the media, about drones being flown on club sites, and within the laws. I've seen quite a bit lately where we are recognised as responsible groups, who are law abiding. I would sooner try and be part of a solution myself, than turn my back and hope drones go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 5km of an airport? Definition of an airport for the purposes of the new reg? Three and a bit miles is not far and dare I say it, some clubs might fall foul if they are operating close to a well equipped GA airfield. Edited By Cuban8 on 08/01/2019 17:57:45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Posted by supertigrefan on 08/01/2019 15:38:26: Your club can do whatever they feel is appropriate but I think a ban would be the wrong route to follow. BTW talking of average ages and the future of the hobby, when has it never been dominated by middle aged men? What is the average age of the engineering and model railway clubs, are they in danger of disappearing? It's a hobby that you really need a car and independence for. Maturity helps. Of course what you also need is the eyesight and reflexes of a 12 year old but you can't have everything. I don't remember that many other teenagers in the two clubs I was in, 25/30 years ago, and realistically, I was only able to fly because my dad did, I relied on him for transport as much as I did for building skills and so on. There were one or two other younger members in each club and they all had dads also in the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Having read the government proposals I am contemplating calling on my club to ban all drone/multirotor operations at our site because :- 1] Operators have to be over 18 but remote pilots can be any age so I can foresee the situation where the club could be deemed to be the operator for under 18 club members flying drones - I think over 18 drone flyers will have to register as operators. This would then require that club administrators (volunteers don't forget) would have to check that all the legal requirements are being met by the flyer and would be liable for any transgressions of the remote pilots and would have to answer to the policeman who turns up at the club, orders that the drone be landed immediately and then dishes out a fixed penalty of £100 if the flyer is found to be in transgression of the legal requirements. If no drones are ever on the site the situation would not arise. and 2] Our club are Aeromodellers - a drone is, by no stretch of the imagination, an aero model. ************************************************************************************************************************* On another tack it looks very likely to me that, come November, we will all have to pass a competency test to remain legal and whether current competency certs we may hold will be valid for this remains to be seen. Also it would appear that people will have to be computer literate to comply and I can imagine the situation where the club would be expected to provide the access required for those that are not. Black clouds gathering indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Posted by Wingman on 08/01/2019 19:09:23: Having read the government proposals I am contemplating calling on my club to ban all drone/multirotor operations at our site because :- 1] Operators have to be over 18 but remote pilots can be any age so I can foresee the situation where the club could be deemed to be the operator for under 18 club members flying drones - I think over 18 drone flyers will have to register as operators. This would then require that club administrators (volunteers don't forget) would have to check that all the legal requirements are being met by the flyer and would be liable for any transgressions of the remote pilots and would have to answer to the policeman who turns up at the club, orders that the drone be landed immediately and then dishes out a fixed penalty of £100 if the flyer is found to be in transgression of the legal requirements. If no drones are ever on the site the situation would not arise. and 2] Our club are Aeromodellers - a drone is, by no stretch of the imagination, an aero model. ************************************************************************************************************************* On another tack it looks very likely to me that, come November, we will all have to pass a competency test to remain legal and whether current competency certs we may hold will be valid for this remains to be seen. Also it would appear that people will have to be computer literate to comply and I can imagine the situation where the club would be expected to provide the access required for those that are not. Black clouds gathering indeed! Hardly onerous undertakings for any club that's prepared to help their members? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 An aeromodeller will almost certainly be more than capable of operating a drone; a photographer using a drone will not in all likelyhood be able to aeromodel succesfully, or be in the least bit inclined to do so. BTW, if you're in any doubt as to what caused this afternoon's disruption, this should make things absolutely clear....I don't think. Edited By Cuban8 on 08/01/2019 19:30:04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 That's an unmanned reconnaissance and payload delivery mechanism there stf. Not sure the military care much about the public's definition of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Herron Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Apologies to OG for my rant, did i not say its not going away and no it wasnt me at either airports i live in Scotland and like i said it dont matter how much you legislate against drones if you have an idiot on the controls or someone with malicious intent its only a matter of time before the inevitable and you dont need to be in line of site or at the perimeter of an airport with the technology thats been out there for a couple of years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Bad press and public opinion will slowly decrease these incidents, unless a fanatic what’s to disrupt day to day life. They won’t stop altogether either. The autonomous nature of the “ out of the box” quad and the lack of knowledge and skill to fly them means they will still enter ATC areas around airports. Especially now the Area has been increased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan M Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Posted by Lima Hotel Foxtrot on 08/01/2019 23:50:49: So bored with these threads now. They're just an excuse for forumites to shout uninformed pompous certainties at each other. Will a mod please lock this thread? You guys must be sick of policing threads like these. You're not obliged to read them. You might also say the same for all monthly magazines on any given subject from carp fishing to interior design, where the same stuff rolls around on a regular basis. Multi-rotors (or drones) represent the polar opposite of everything that's ever inspired or challenged me - from building balsa and tissue FF scale to assembling and flying flight-mode thermal soarers with moulded airframes. They're mostly just a 'thing' one buys ready-made and buzzes around with, filming one's kid playing footie or whatever. But to the (vast majority of law-abiding) folks who enjoy them, they're interesting and fun - which is their prerogative - and they're here to stay. Whether a club decides to welcome or reject them is similarly their prerogative. As it happens, we don't advertise ourselves towards drone enthusiasts because we're simply not interested, and because there is an awful lot of open space in the rural vicinity where folks just do it anyway. Which is something one can't easily do with a RC power model! Despite my personal views, and my club's unwillingness to actively welcome drone-fliers, I think the BMFA had very much done the right thing by opening itself up to the multi-rotor community. It already encompasses a huge range of model flying disciplines, and by embracing multi-rotors it can position itself to influence their impact and regulation (as I'm sure it already has), as well as offer a gateway to other more traditional forms of model flying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Posted by Lima Hotel Foxtrot on 08/01/2019 23:50:49: Will a mod please lock this thread? You guys must be sick of policing threads like these. Despite what some might think, we rarely lock threads just because they're hard work. If we do, chances are that it's a non-aeromodelling thread such as politics or religion or some other issue that is controversial and policing it takes an excessive amount of attention. It's important to give those who need to somewhere to let off steam (in a nice way, of course). We don't all have the opportunity of chewing the fat with mates at the field or on a club night. Whether we like it or not, this is a subject that is a) close to our hearts and, b) isn't going to go away any time soon. As suggested, if the content winds you up, it's best to just scroll past the thread. Unfortunately, we mods don't get that luxury..... Your long-suffering mod, Pete... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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