Grammar, punctuation, spelling

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[cymaz]

“Going forward”.That’s a horse walking in a field. What people mean to say is, “in the future”.

[David Davis]

I have met builders and engineering technicians who would struggle to write a grammatically correct article but who are very competent in their work.

I was told by my English teacher when at school, decades ago, that spelling was only standardised in 1870 when education for children in England and Wales became compulsory. Apparently Shakespeare used to spell his surname in several different ways as the mood took him.

 

Edited By David Davis on 11/10/2020 08:37:46

[EarlyBird]

In order not to annoy those with a good command of English, because of their good education, I will stop posting.

I wonder how many people with less than perfect English have been put off joining this forum.

For some writing is easy but equally for some it is hard.

For those that find it hard you should be encouraging them by not be critical in any way.

Comments not aimed at a particular individual can still be received as offensive and have the potential to put people off joining this forum.

So, now that has annoyed some, can you be less critical and more encouraging please?

After all that is what you all do with regard to the quality of the builds on here, I have not seen one negative comment.

Cheers

Steve

[leccyflyer]

Posted by Doc Marten on 11/10/2020 00:58:47:

Posted by Dale Bradly on 11/10/2020 00:26:23:

.........People who use.......in the middle of a sentence, or use it as some form of punctuation.........I'm not aware of any school or workplace that teaches to insert a minimum of half a dozen periods in written text..............so where does this habit come from?

You'll find this is accepted and often used by authors to accentuate a pause, it's nothing new, Dickens and Bronte were quite partial to its use in their day sometimes terminated with an exclamation........it's also used on forums when quoting a reply in part to show that there is pre and post text to the comment.

Using the term 'period' instead of 'full stop' is pretty irritating.

Not to mention starting a sentence with And or But.

[Ben B]

I saw something recently that said when writing to teenagers or people in their 20s to avoid using punctuation as it would appear unduly formal and threatening. I ignored it. Sentences don't make any sense without punctuation.

I agree re unnecessary apostrophes. Missing something out is ignorance or laziness but adding unneeded stuff is just wrong. My wife's an English teacher and collects examples and on rare occasions corrects then.

In our local M+S they had a laminated sign near the tills saying "We do not accept fifty's"

Our local bistro put up a sign saying "We have many tapas's". I'm no expert but would imagine tapas is almost by definition plural but even if it required making plural that's not it. Then again at the same bistro when I went in on a Sunday morning and ordered muffin and jam... They brought me a little pot of jam and a chocolate chip muffin!

Actually the most annoying thing I find if Trumps hyperbolic use of exclamation marks! Especially in tweets! It's so annoying! It devalues them if they're use all the time! I wish he'd stop!

Edited By Ben B on 11/10/2020 09:01:15

[Tim Kearsley]

You're right Ben. I saw the same article, which claimed that using full-stops in a text message was regarded as "threatening" by youngsters. Honestly, you couldn't make it up. You don't need to, this crazy world is already here!

Tim.

[Matt Carlton]

I appreciate that Steve, but I am not being critical of people who have difficulty with writing for whatever reason.

I am critical of the fact that there was a time when spelling and grammar were considered important enough to be taught very early in a child's education. I am also critical of the incorrect use of language in public announcements, signage and information, where clarity and accuracy are important.

There is no intent to offend in my post, nor to be condescending.

However, I don't necessarily agree that it is wrong to criticise. Otherwise, we end up in a society which has no rules. We have standards of language in order to communicate effectively, just as we impose standards of behaviour in order to live together cohesively.

The notion that we must tread on eggshells in order not to offend is a difficult one. Where do you draw the line? Saying that spelling and grammar are important does not mean a personal criticism of a person who has difficulty. If you were teaching someone to drive, you would need to correct their mistakes. You wouldn't just let them do it however they chose because you didn't want to offend them.

Have you ever criticised someone for their driving or parking? Of course you have, whether publicly or not. Should you not be more understanding of people who find driving and parking difficult?

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Shaun Walsh]

Posted by Ben B on 11/10/2020 09:00:13:

I saw something recently that said when writing to teenagers or people in their 20s to avoid using punctuation as it would appear unduly formal and threatening. I ignored it. Sentences don't make any sense without punctuation.

I agree re unnecessary apostrophes. Missing something out is ignorance or laziness but adding unneeded stuff is just wrong. My wife's an English teacher and collects examples and on rare occasions corrects then.

In our local M+S they had a laminated sign near the tills saying "We do not accept fifty's"

Our local bistro put up a sign saying "We have many tapas's". I'm no expert but would imagine tapas is almost by definition plural but even if it required making plural that's not it. Then again at the same bistro when I went in on a Sunday morning and ordered muffin and jam... They brought me a little pot of jam and a chocolate chip muffin!

Actually the most annoying thing I find if Trumps hyperbolic use of exclamation marks! Especially in tweets! It's so annoying! It devalues them if they're use all the time! I wish he'd stop!

Edited By Ben B on 11/10/2020 09:01:15

Similarly, how many people realise that "panini" is the plural of "panino" and that "data" is the plural of "datum"

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Shaun Walsh]

So "Panini's", as often seen on menu boards, is wrong on 3 counts:

It's already plural.

A superfluous apostrophe.

It's a pretentious sandwich.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Shaun Walsh]

Posted by Doc Marten on 11/10/2020 10:52:56:

Posted by Shaun Walsh on 11/10/2020 10:44:33:

So "Panini's", as often seen on menu boards, is wrong on 3 counts:

It's already plural.

A superfluous apostrophe.

It's a pretentious sandwich.

Objection M'lud!

It's a pretentious (but quite tasty) roll!

And a roll is just a sandwich with a lot more crust ☺️

[Shaun Walsh]

Posted by Doc Marten on 11/10/2020 10:52:56:

Posted by Shaun Walsh on 11/10/2020 10:44:33:

So "Panini's", as often seen on menu boards, is wrong on 3 counts:

It's already plural.

A superfluous apostrophe.

It's a pretentious sandwich.

Objection M'lud!

It's a pretentious (but quite tasty) roll!

And a roll is just a sandwich with a lot more crust ☺️

[Shaun Walsh]

Posted by Doc Marten on 11/10/2020 10:52:56:

Posted by Shaun Walsh on 11/10/2020 10:44:33:

So "Panini's", as often seen on menu boards, is wrong on 3 counts:

It's already plural.

A superfluous apostrophe.

It's a pretentious sandwich.

Objection M'lud!

It's a pretentious (but quite tasty) roll!

And a roll is just a sandwich with a lot more crust ☺️

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Shaun Walsh]

Anyone who puts minced beef and carrots in a "Cornish" pasty should be thrown off the Tamar bridge as a lesson to others. 🌮 (nearest emoji I could find to a Cornish pasty)

Edited By Shaun Walsh on 11/10/2020 11:46:15

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[cymaz]

Ginsters do not make pasties. They are meat pies pretending to be pasties.

[Shaun Walsh]

Posted by cymaz on 11/10/2020 11:46:07:

Ginsters do not make pasties. They are meat pies pretending to be pasties.

Pies in diguise bring tears to your eyes!

[Robin Colbourne]

To build on analogy the analogy to a club member's flying, there's a big difference between the relative newcomer who gets the model around a slightly ragged circuit and tends to nose over on landing, and the long time member whose model is never trimmed, stalls around the sky, overflies the pits and then heads off to crash in the car park, because the owner won't listen to well-intentioned advice and can't be bothered to do basic checks and maintenance.

[Phil Green]

It bothers me a lot, but then I'm fascinated by language. Its not just on forums but elsewhere too, newpapers, magazines, TV schedules... I've even seen it in rolling TV credits!

Some forum posts are almost incomprehensible, usually caused by devices with prediction and substitution, but there's no excuse not to read your own post before clicking 'Add Posting'.

One of my pet hates is there/their, your/you're and Americanisms like 'regular' which is related to frequency, not size:
"Fish & chips please". "Regular?" "No, just this once please I'm only passing through..."

Cheers
Phil

[cymaz]

I’ve noticed BBC journalists on the tv saying, “ two of three foot”. Noooooooooooooo