Radiomaster

[Andy Gates]

In the UK I am pretty sure the answer is yes.

[John Muir]

If you bought your radio in 2014 then it is legal to continue using it. I think that it was 2015 that the rules changed and it became illegal to sell a transmitter that did not have LBT (listen before talk/transmit). That's why Radiomaster and Jumper radios are hard to come by from proper retail outlets here. they are illegal to sell because they transmit, as they are delivered, old Spektrum and FRSky protocols (maybe others) that are no longer legal here or in the EU. Most shops wouldn't want the hassle of being caught.

[PatMc]

The excuse for a user manual that came with the 2014 Taranis X9D includes a CE compliance statement that it may be used freely in a list of 16 EU countries including UK. France is also listed but with some restrictions of use. 

 

PS That's as well as the FCC statement.

Edited July 22, 2021 by PatMc

[i12fly]

3 hours ago, John Muir said:

If you bought your radio in 2014 then it is legal to continue using it. I think that it was 2015 that the rules changed and it became illegal to sell a transmitter that did not have LBT (listen before talk/transmit). That's why Radiomaster and Jumper radios are hard to come by from proper retail outlets here. they are illegal to sell because they transmit, as they are delivered, old Spektrum and FRSky protocols (maybe others) that are no longer legal here or in the EU. Most shops wouldn't want the hassle of being caught.

So can the Radiomaster and Jumper etc be flashed to make them LBT if not......  ?

[Andy Gates]

Yes, they certainly can.

My Jumper T16 has been flashed, and the multi protocol module allows most situations to be handled. Only real exclusion I have found so far is Futaba FAST and of course ACCESS

[Mike Chantler]

Fab radio. Use with lbt rx. I cloned my x9d ID as well. Effectively gives hot backup of the tx16, fab feature as many of my Rx are buried deep inside epp fuselages.

 

When I copied my models across to the tx16s I lost the Rx numbers - so I have to put these in, otherwise most things work straight off. But remember to calibrate your sticks!

Edited July 22, 2021 by Mike Chantler

[John Muir]

The Radiomaster can do LBT but it can also do FCC and old versions of FrSky protocols that aren't allowed now along with DSM2, which is also illegal. Of course you don't have to use these old protocols but the fact they are included in the MPM makes the radio illegal to sell regardless. Not that the vast majority of people give a monkey's, but I think that it is something that should be noted.

Mike, just don't sell your Taranis on to a clubmate now. That could lead to an interesting discussion down at the field!

[Outrunner]

12 hours ago, John Muir said:

If you bought your radio in 2014 then it is legal to continue using it. I think that it was 2015 that the rules changed and it became illegal to sell a transmitter that did not have LBT (listen before talk/transmit). That's why Radiomaster and Jumper radios are hard to come by from proper retail outlets here. they are illegal to sell because they transmit, as they are delivered, old Spektrum and FRSky protocols (maybe others) that are no longer legal here or in the EU. Most shops wouldn't want the hassle of being caught.

On the Radiomaster website along with FCC certificate there are current CE certificates for all of the Radiomaster radios https://radiomasterrc.com/article_cat-30.html

[i12fly]

Wow, the advice on here is great. I'm thinking of getting the Radiomaster 16TS to replace my early model Futaba T7C 2.4 Fasst system which includes quite a few Frsky Rx clones. The new Futaba Tx that will work the old Fasst Rx are out of my reach £ so I'll go for changing the whole system over a period of time.  However would I be better to go for the Taranis X9D Plus 2019 that has Access? As an average fixed wing club flyer, needing max 7 channels I would like some telemetry and a bit more flexibility for mixing but as I've got quite a few Rx to replace and the cost is a consideration, as Access Rx are more expensive and reading up I cannot see any real advantage to me (but I may have missed something!)

Edit: I will only be buying from UK outlet

Edited July 23, 2021 by i12fly
addition

[Andy Gates]

If you go down the ACCESS route, as things stand you will be binding yourself to FrSky only.

 

Go down the Radio master / Jumper route and you can mix whatever protocols you wish to use. I have Corona, FrSky, Orange & Lemon in use without issues.

[Glasshopper]

I am somewhat confused by the ad vice in this discussion. FCC. Seems legal on trannys pre 2015 but all Radiomaster and Jumper trannys  sold  after 2015 are now illegal because they can transmit FCC, is that correct?but the advice is to use them anyhow because nobody bothers whether they are legal or not; Is my interpretation correct? Are the certificates of conformity any good?

[Andy Gates]

Radiomaster and Jumper transmitters can be updated via firmware to V2 LBT which is fine and current.

[PatMc]

34 minutes ago, Glasshopper said:

I am somewhat confused by the ad vice in this discussion. FCC. Seems legal on trannys pre 2015 but all Radiomaster and Jumper trannys  sold  after 2015 are now illegal because they can transmit FCC, is that correct?but the advice is to use them anyhow because nobody bothers whether they are legal or not; Is my interpretation correct? Are the certificates of conformity any good?

FCC stands for Federal Communications Commission, click the link and you'll see that it's really irrelevant to us in the UK. We have for a long time followed EC certificates of self conformity rules, and AFAIK, still do (or should) when it comes to our RC equipment .    

[Glasshopper]

Thank you for replying and explaining what the initials FCC mean. My only interest in this thread was the assertion that flying fcc in England was illegal and therefore my activities are illegal. One of the contributors has cleared this for me. You say that Fcc no longer applies here but because I do not use LBT whatever that means it seems to create a kind of limbo.

      Do you have any views on one of the previous contributions which stated that because Radiomaster and Jumper can transmit Fcc they are illegal in England and no self respecting retailer would touch them and, furthermore they are in use because nobody “bothers”

         Are there any penalties in England for using transmitters that are “illegal”?

           I do not fly RM or Jim

[Mike Blandford]

As I understand it, the problem is while some of the available protocols are compliant/legal, others are not compliant/legal.

The multiprotocol module (internal or external) includes 4 RF chips. At least one of the FCC filings (I think by RM but may just have been Jumper), said only one of the RF chips was actually used, and the user was unable to use the others. This is clearly incorrect!

 

FCC is not legal in the UK (or Europe) for transmitters imported after 2015.

 

There is also another consideration to using certain protocols on a multiprotocol transmitter. Each manufacturer provides a Unique Identifier for their protocol(s). This prevents any conflicts where two transmitters use the same value. Unfortunately, the multiprotocol module does not follow this requirement. For example, the FrSky protocols in the multiprotocol module use an identifier that is derived from the processor chip unique entry. The method used to obtain this does not guarantee all multiprotocol modules will use a different value, and certainly there is no guarantee any value  will be different from the identifiers assigned by FrSky. So there is a chance that a multiprotocol module will use the same identifier as a FrSky transmitter.

 

Mike

[Andy Gates]

LBT - listen before talk

[GrumpyGnome]

So, an RM tx transmitting an FrSky protocol could shoot down another FrSky equipped model? 

[i12fly]

I’m trying to do a LBB (listen before buy....) and getting good advice on here –much appreciated, but getting confused.

To be strictly ‘legal’ and safe from rogue identifiers, it seems that I would have to buy Spectrum NX, Futaba(??) or Frsky Access.

It seems that in order to increase functionality over my old system, within my budget, I’d have to accept limitations in other ways (like only a 4/6 channel). Am I reading this right?

Or if I bought the Radiomaster, it would need to be coupled to the now discontinued R16 Rx

Or is there another solution?

[Dickw]

31 minutes ago, GrumpyGnome said:

So, an RM tx transmitting an FrSky protocol could shoot down another FrSky equipped model? 

Suddenly I am pleased MPM based systems don't do the protocol I use ?

 

Dick

[Andy Gates]

13 minutes ago, i12fly said:

Or if I bought the Radiomaster, it would need to be coupled to the now discontinued R16 Rx

Not sure where this idea came from. With RM you could use almost any receiver providing you have the correct protocol in use.

The chances of getting the same identifier ought to pretty remote otherwise many planes would have been shot down by now.

 

To put it into perspective, there is a very faint chance that any radio system could duplicate identifiers - the chances of this happening are not too great even in a busy sky or site.

There are protocols that are now out of use / not recommended. If you have older receivers that use these protocols then I would suggest you could still use them, just the same as you could still use 27MHz or 35MHz radio equipment.

 

24 minutes ago, i12fly said:

It seems that in order to increase functionality over my old system, within my budget, I’d have to accept limitations in other ways (like only a 4/6 channel). Am I reading this right?

 

No, new equipment will have increased functionality over older. Open Tx is quite amazing and adaptable and the RM TX16 / Jumper T16 Pro are good bits of kit.

Kind of view it like you have Mondeo / Passat with lots of functions, but do not expect Rolls Royce quality or driving experience.

[ken anderson.]

5 hours ago, GrumpyGnome said:

So, an RM tx transmitting an FrSky protocol could shoot down another FrSky equipped model? 

nah....surely it will only control the model/RX it has been bound to?

 

ken anderson...ne...1...... binding dept.

[GrumpyGnome]

@ken anderson.that's what I am hoping Mike will confirm......

[Keith Berriman]

Followed this post from day one with interest but have not yet bought a Tx as still trying to find one in Mode 1 or a supplier who say that it's easy to do but will not do it for me 

[John Wagg]

8 minutes ago, Keith Berriman said:

Followed this post from day one with interest but have not yet bought a Tx as still trying to find one in Mode 1 or a supplier who say that it's easy to do but will not do it for me 

A few videos on Utube showing how to change to mode One. I did it and is reasonably simple with care.  Generally they show removing the back, swapping gimbles and wiring plugs as I did. But I'm not sure if you have to do that now ? If both gimbles have the ratchets then it should really only be loosening on the left gimble and tightening the right one ??

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=radiomaster+mode+one

 

[Mike Blandford]

When binding the Rx stores the Unique Identifier of the Tx, so it then responds to any Tx with that identifier. So if you have two transmitters with the same identifier, then the Rx is bound to both of them.

With the FrSky ACCST protocol (D16) the hopping channels to use are also defined by the identifier, although they are sent as part of the bind operation. The order in which the channels are actually used is selected randomly by the Tx each time it is powered on. The Rx receives data on one of the channels, and this includes the information required to use the correct sequence.

 

Mike