Danny Fenton Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share Posted March 7, 2021 Lovely! We both should get out more lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan p Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Thanks DANNY nice neat work ? Just realised a late diagnosis of OCD, when I am worrying about thou gaps in my builds?? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwain Dibley. Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 OCD ?? Agreed !! I just spent 10 minutes bevelling an aileron down to half a pencil line, why not the whole line, or even just up to the line, I will never know. HELP ME !! Excellent work as usual Danny BTW. D.D. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share Posted March 7, 2021 Sorry guys there is no salvation...... Its a burden we must bear te he. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share Posted March 7, 2021 So while the fuselage dries, (used aliphatic for most of this). thought I would give a covering material a go that I have heard great things about, Ceconite. This is a covering that is used on full size aircraft and is a polyester fabric that is heatshrunk. I am very lucky that Dave Hopkin, friend and fellow balsa basher sent me an offcut to try, Dave did you know the offcut was 2 mtrs by 1 mtr??? What were you covering??? I am going to apply it with dope, lets' see how it goes....... *****Spoiler alert***** if you are a subscriber to the magazine, look away, as this will no doubt sneak into my column, and I don't want to spoil the surprise ? Materials I am using first..... The rudder has been sanded to shape, I like to taper the trailing edges, not necessary, but that's just me. A coat of 50/50 dope has been applied, and let dry before we start. More later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share Posted March 7, 2021 So a very enjoyable few hours faffing about, with little to show for it. Anyway to cut a long story short even my "neat" LAS dope would not stick it to the airframe. The official product for attaching Ceconite to metal, wood and itself is their "super seam cement" It is £25 a quart, and if I do order some Ceconite I may add some to the order. However, for now I am going to try Balsaloc. Makes you realise how good an idea it is to put the iron on adhesive on the back of the film. However Ceconite has serious shrink, and doesn't sag, so maybe the hassle will be worth it. So a layer of Balsaloc on the rudder, once dry I will give it a go. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwain Dibley. Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 I hope it's worth it Mate, seems like a good old faff to me. LOL Looking forward to see if it works. D.D. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share Posted March 7, 2021 (edited) Well it goes on just like Solartex but because it doesn't have a coating of glue everywhere it is a bit lighter, probably not a lot in it however. 3 meters (remember its nearly 2 meters wide) with VAT and shipping (£11.95) is £42, add to that you will need an adhesive, £25 but will probably be combined in the same shipment so courier works out better. It will need to be doped to seal it too. An interesting exercise. Cheers Danny Edited March 7, 2021 by Danny Fenton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwain Dibley. Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 It looks great. I can give you a direct comparison with Oratex on price. I just bought 3 metres X .59 metres for £39.00 carriage was £8.00. So way, way dearer. Probably worth the hassle by the sound of it Danny. D.D. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted March 8, 2021 Author Share Posted March 8, 2021 Not so sure, DD. I really struggled to get the Ceconite to stick to itself on the second side, even after two coats of balsaloc. This may of course be a short coming of Balsaloc, ie not meant for this task. But I am not sure I want to spend another £30 to try some of the correct adhesive. Still food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwain Dibley. Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) I suspect if you are building models the size local boy (to me), Robbie Skipton does, then it's a different matter. D.D. Edited March 8, 2021 by Dwain Dibley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted March 8, 2021 Author Share Posted March 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Dwain Dibley. said: I suspect if you are building models the size local boy (to me), Robbie Skipton does, then it's a different matter. D.D. Yes you are quite right, it suddenly ramps up in cost, and the angles you are trying to force the material to wrap around are bigger, just because of the scale. I have reverted back to a silk I got from Berrisfords. It was too heavy to go over tissue, but may work alone. I really enjoy doping a covering. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted March 8, 2021 Author Share Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) Okay ripped that off as well, it was not tautening as much as i expected, both applied dry and wet, the weave was not filling well either, but knew that would probably be the case. So I have gone back to what I know and love, tissue and dope. It does mean the model is susceptible to knocks, but I think its a price I will just have to pay. Cheers Danny Edited March 8, 2021 by Danny Fenton 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 A lot of people are using doculam or mylar first and then doping tissue over the top. I've never done this myself but it makes the tissue much more puncture proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted March 8, 2021 Author Share Posted March 8, 2021 Thanks, Yes I have heard of this, I have never tried it. I was hoping to keep away from an iron on covering. The seams are so difficult to hide and the covering imparts very little strength compared to a doped down solution. Maybe I should get with the times. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted March 8, 2021 Author Share Posted March 8, 2021 DD if you are looking in, or indeed anybody else that knows this model, can you recall the size of tank you fitted? The one on the plan is round, and is 110mm long by 60mm across. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Danny Fenton said: Thanks, Yes I have heard of this, I have never tried it. I was hoping to keep away from an iron on covering. The seams are so difficult to hide and the covering imparts very little strength compared to a doped down solution. Maybe I should get with the times. Cheers Danny I think you maybe surprised with the strength of lam film Danny, even 38 micron is very puncture resistant, plus the seams can be sanded back so they are very nearly hidden, there's a joint seam in this wing from root to tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted March 8, 2021 Author Share Posted March 8, 2021 Thanks Ron, it is something I should look at. It isn't the strength of the film that is in question, no heat reactive film covering imparts the same sort of strength to the overall airframe (open structure) as tissue/nylon/silk and dope. I have attached an interesting article by Alasdair Sutherland, though a bit dated now, he explored this subject, and I can certainly vouch for the rigidity of the tissue and dope wings on my Hawker Fury. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 19 minutes ago, Danny Fenton said: Thanks Ron, it is something I should look at. It isn't the strength of the film that is in question, no heat reactive film covering imparts the same sort of strength to the overall airframe (open structure) as tissue/nylon/silk and dope. Aint that the truth! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted March 8, 2021 Author Share Posted March 8, 2021 Well some progress. I tried silk over tissue and that got ripped off, this poor rudder has been through the wars, and took a fair bit of sanding to get it back to useable. A quick chat with modelling chum Simon Lawson who uses Ceconite said he uses dope to stick it down. I told him i couldnt get it to stick. Anyway long story short, you have to put two good coats of dope on the airframe. Then lay the ceconite on the structure and use thinners through the Ceconite to soften the dope below. And what do you know, it works really well! Pics when back at my pc later. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted March 8, 2021 Author Share Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) Okay pics as promised. I know I didn't really want a heat shrink film but this I am hoping is a happy compromise. I managed to get the Ceconite to work really well, and once you have figured it out (thanks for the leg up Simon) its a doddle. There is a trick to doing compound curves, but I have been advised by my lawyer not to tell anybody ? so if you want to know you better PM me ? I guess many will say why not just use Oratex, and you are right, it will be heavier but not by much, It will hopefully not sag like some others, what does it for me is the edges, they are much thinner and flatter against the structure. And of course Ceconite is a great deal cheaper. I think I may place an order with LAS for enough to do the whole model. Cheers Danny Edited March 8, 2021 by Danny Fenton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Simon Lawson from Donny ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted March 8, 2021 Author Share Posted March 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, john stones 1 Moderator said: Simon Lawson from Donny ? The same, ace chap, and great modeller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Yep, been watching his blogs on his club forum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 took a brief look at the fit of the two main bulkheads, 105 and 106. Alas they do not match the plan, and I have built the fus sides according to the plan sigh...... why do I build other peoples kits, double sigh......... 105 106 I will assume the bulkheads are correct and remake the tops of the fus sides. This of course may have a knock on effect on the wing incidence, I will need to check for that later on. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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