Lamination Film

[Erfolg]

I am coming near to the end of a model. It has an open structure airframe and sheeted wings.

 

It was my intention to tissue the wings, to add strength. With respect to the body I was hoping to use the the Solar Film product that looked like tissue but was a heat shrink, Solar Span? However Solar Film product do not seem to be about anymore.

 

I then decided to use Laminating film for the airframe , then tissue and dope it. I have now purchased a roll of the stuff.

 

I am experimenting with it, having covered a 3d printed component. I have abraded one side, leaving the remainder as from the roll. Part of each surface is now painted using "tester pot", emulsion type paint (acrylic). The paint adheres apparently well, I will see how well it adheres once thoroughly dry and aged.

 

I am now wondering is there any step change type benefit that is gained from tissuing and doping any part of the model? Having no experience others experiences will be valuable to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Erfolg]

forgot following topic

[GrumpyGnome]

I've found paint flakes off open structure areas, even if tye film is keyed - especially if there is any flex. Mt P47 will be treated to a recover in a few months...

 

Tissue over film SEEMS to give better paint adherance (and looks a little more like fabric) but my SE5 covered like that is still only part way through finishing. 

[Andrew Calcutt]

Try nylon,I’ve used plain from dunelm mill for net curtains,dope it on gives a good strong job you can paint.

[GrumpyGnome]

Just doped Nylon, or over lam film ?

[Ron Gray]

No need for nylon on top of lam film, unless you want to show a bit of weave.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Ron Gray

[GrumpyGnome]

Indeed, that's why I'm using tissue over lam film on my SE5.. 🙂

 

Not sure the advocate for nylon was suggesting using over lam, or instead of....

[Engine Doctor]

Unless you want to see through the structure try using the matt laminating film. This looks very much like doped tissue and shows the wood beneath but is not atall clear. Below are some parts of a Elf Bipe I have covered . This is 70 micron matt laminating film. Still a lot lighter than Solar tex but heavier some films.f

 Paint really does adhere well as the matt  surface allow paint to get a grip .  I have a couple of test pieces made two or three years ago and one piece having been left in a green house all that time .  No degrading , loosening or paint flaking.  Its also fuel proof and overlapped covering is almost impossible to undo without plenty of heat. 

Paint can crack if applied to thickly irrespective of what it's aplied to or how it's keyed. A plasticiser for solvent based acrylic can be bought from car paint factors.

You could also try a few drops of castor oil mixed into paint before application will keep paint flexible. Test gor quantity to add before committing to paint entire model. It does slow the curing of paint.  We used it when making transfers years ago mixing castor in with the dope . I think its also used in Banana oil to keep it flexible.

For water based Acrylics or emulsion I don't know what will prevent cracking or flaking although the vinyl silk type does stay reasonably flexible , again depending on how thick its applied.

Ps Eagle eyed builders will notice that I have forgotten the mounts for the wing struts so will have to either patch or recover the tops of the wings once sorted.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Engine Doctor

[Erfolg]

The film I purchased is gloss, as I knew no better, also I was totally unaware that there was gloss.

 

Being pretty old, I have used Nylon in the very distant past. In this era, I am not sure that there is a place for it, in that the weight build up was considerable, when I used it.

 

I have used the plastic heat shrink versions of Nylon, which I found Ok up to a point. Not being porous as nylon, even after doping.

 

Anyway back to laminating material. My material is 0.003" thick, which I think is 75, again I think is in Microns (these new fangled units).🙄 My aim is to obtain a light covering material, which adds some torsional etc, strength and is also puncture resistant. Plus I want to paint the surface. That is where I thought tissue, doped, comes in. I am not clear if the tissue is needed for either?

 

I normally spray/airbrush my models, unfortunately I thought that this original aircraft was painted in a streaky finish green, as many late (WW1) Fokkers. Unfortunately the body was 5 colour lozenge from photographs. I am reluctant to use a brush as it piles on the weight on a heavy model (incompetent builder, better at battleships). Yet cannot see a way of avoiding this process.

 

Still need help and guidance.

 

A picture now of a test piece on a 3d printed scrap lower u/c wing.

 

[Erfolg]

 I have obviously much to learn (it seems), I have covered a small open structure as a trial. Although there were no wrinkles when I tacked and then cealed the edge to the frame, when I applied heat to shrink the open component, wrinkles appeared.

 

Have I set the iron to high, or to low?

 

Perhaps a few comments on iron setting etc, may be helpful.

 

I have now doped on tissue to the film, as well as to PLA, it does adhere to film as well as PLA, although the bond was not high, is this normal?

[Ron Gray]

As a very general rule, tack lam film at about 100° and 140° to shrink. If you are applying it to sheet use the lower of the temps until you get the film in place otherwise the film may shrink and wrinkle before you get it in place. Lam film is a lot more tolerant of higher temperatures than other covering films.

[David Hazell 1]

What's the verdict on the ultra matt vs matt vs gloss? I have the gloss and I have found acrylic doesn't bond so brilliantly to that - keyed it with 600 wetndry dry too.

[David Hazell 1]

Ooh, though I thought I'd weigh mine - and it seems to be about 10.25gsm for the 30micron stuff. Soooo light! 

[GrumpyGnome]

I found bonding a bit hit and miss too, so I'm now trying with tissue doped on top of the lam film..... maybe an airbrushed approach works better than a brush on the film ...?

[David Hazell 1]

2 minutes ago, GrumpyGnome said:

I found bonding a bit hit and miss too, so I'm now trying with tissue doped on top of the lam film..... maybe an airbrushed approach works better than a brush on the film ...?

 

I did use airbrush, and primer first (also airbrushed). The finish is good, just not stuck down enough to resist being scratched off by even a small ding.

[Ace]

Primer - I scuffed 38 micron gloss laminating film with a Scotch pad and then used Halfords plastic bumper primer in an aerosol - wouldn't scratch off with my fingernail.

[Ron Gray]

It is ultra important when painting lam film to ensure that you have a really good key and that a suitable primer / uc is used. I have found that Scotch pad (as per Ace’s post) or well worn sandpaper create a good key but it’s just not a once over! This keying process will also show up areas where the film hasn’t  been stuck down to sheeted areas and can be attacked with the covering iron. Bumper primer is excellent but I’ve also successfully used the cheapest uc I could find on Amazon.

[Engine Doctor]

15 hours ago, Erfolg said:

 I have obviously much to learn (it seems), I have covered a small open structure as a trial. Although there were no wrinkles when I tacked and then cealed the edge to the frame, when I applied heat to shrink the open component, wrinkles appeared.

 

Have I set the iron to high, or to low?

 

Perhaps a few comments on iron setting etc, may be helpful.

 

 

Hi Erflog as laminating film is far more heat resistant than our model covering films and can tolerate far higher temps I have e found that setting iron to 1/2 for tacking then go to between 3/4 to nearly full for shrinking. The thinner grades need slightly lower temps. For final shrinking I prefer using a hot air gun ( the modelling type not the DIY type). Make sure you keep a hot air gun moving as if you are a bit close or slow it can still burn a hole. Any holes are easily and almost invisibly mended with a patch ironed on and are almost impossible to peel off without applying heat unlike model covering.

Once fully shrunk I go over the covering wherever it touches ribs or spars as this really stiffens the model . With wings etc make sure there are no unwanted twists in the wing before doing this.

 The adhesion to the frame can be increased if needed by applying Deluxe Materials Cover Grip or similar prior to covering; I'm still using Clearcote as have a small supply left . 

I have only used the matt version as I have an inbuilt dislike for clear or see through models so can't comment on the clear laminating film re shrinkage and paint adhesion . 

[Ron Gray]

An infrared heat gun is invaluable to check the heat of your covering iron to find out where the dial needs to be to give the 140°.

[HENRY GELSTHORPE]

Do you have a UK source for the Matt laminating film please?

[Outrunner]

1 hour ago, HENRY GELSTHORPE said:

Do you have a UK source for the Matt laminating film please?

 

eBay 

[Ron Gray]

I get mine from The Binding Box

[HENRY GELSTHORPE]

Thanks Ron, will take a look.

[HENRY GELSTHORPE]

Had a quick look at the binding box, it seems the Matt comes in 2 flavors either Matt, or ultra Matt. For the same size product the ultra Matt is significantly dearer, so any thoughts on the product differences.Could it be that the Ultra Matt would not need a plastic primer, any body tried it?.

[Steven Hurd]

Clear is as described, it looks a bit Matt but when heat is applied the film goes completely clear and reflects light like glass. 
 

Matt is similar looking but when applied at the correct heat, it is nearly see through, but does not reflect as much light, the surface finish is not quite as smooth, as clear

 

Ultra Matt is not clear and stays non clear when the correct heat is applied, the surface has a micron level of surface roughness to it and when applied has the looked of doped tissue. The film does not reflect light. 
 

Now how you use this for paint varies and tests should be done. We have successfully painted the ultra Matt with or without scarifying the surface. Importantly you must degrease the surface, then for best results scarify the surface mildly with scotch brite or similar, then degrease again. Scarified surfaces stuck very well to the point of damage before the paint lifted, it is the clubs feeling that paint sticks to the Ultra Matt better than clear, but I think that may be only a minimal difference. 
Non  was used with a plastic primer, I suspect this would make any paint stick very well to any plastic film.