RC Aircraft Trainer - Foam and Kit

[Greg]

14 hours ago, GrumpyGnome said:

I used to fly in my local park, but it was only possible until around 7:00 that's when the dog walkers arrived with he two significant issues:

a) dogs will chase planes

b) dog walkers seem to delight in walking quite close to you, often where you want to land.

 

Having said that, I used to enjoy myself, but only flew very lightweight, mostly very slow, models - just in case.... by lightweight, I mean well under 500g.  The biggest challenge with larger models will be the amount of space needed for a landing approach, I think.

 

If the bye-laws allow, and you comply with regulations/recommendations around proximity of non-involved people (sounds like that won't be an issue), have a go.  

 

Personally, I'd look as something slow and relatively light with a degree of stability built in - I think someone has already suggested a powered glider.  For foam, Phoenix's fly well (I'll have a look where you can get one), with a receiver equipped with stabilization, or an add-on.  For balsa, the Balsa Cabin Sonata-e flies nice and slowly.  The Aviator suggested in the YouTube link earlier, flies well, and is light but will get very small very quickly - don't know how your eyesight is!

Thank you. What you have said about an aircraft that is light and slow to fly is exactly what was in my mind. I made an error by not putting that in my post when asking for recommended RTF foam and Balsa kits.

 

When it comes to dog walkers, fortunately dogs are not allowed on the recreation ground at any time.

 

Thanks again.

[Dale Bradly]

Greg, go nuts. I used to spend a lot of time parkflying and really enjoyed it. It improved my general flying skills a lot, principally in regard to not being afraid of the ground. Of the models i personally have had, for beginner suitability i would suggest the multiplex funcub. Similar models currently available could be timbers, tundras, kingfishers. Have fun!

 

[John Lee]

In the USA the AMA (equivalent of the BMFA) have a Membership category of 'Park Pilot' who are limited to models weighing less than 2 pounds & fly at less than 60mph, often - as the name implies - in Parks or Public Recreational Areas.

 

Greg, you may want to browse through https://www.theparkpilot.org/ where you can find several appropriate model reviews together with a number of downloadable plans and build articles for lightweight 'Park fly' models.

[leccyflyer]

52 minutes ago, Greg said:

Thank you. What you have said about an aircraft that is light and slow to fly is exactly what was in my mind. I made an error by not putting that in my post when asking for recommended RTF foam and Balsa kits.

 

When it comes to dog walkers, fortunately dogs are not allowed on the recreation ground at any time.

 

Thanks again.

Greg - for your situation as you have described it, what you are looking for is a parkflyer - a lightweight (<1lb), electric-powered, high wing model, optionally with some stabilisation aids but most importantly slow and stable. These can be of foam - examples such as the Multiplex PicoCub or similar - or built up balsa construction - the West Wings Beguine was a good choice, but sadly discontinued some years ago -and, especially when coupled with some simulator time are a viable entry point for model flying.

 

Best of luck with your model flying adventure.

[Rich Griff]

Hi again Greg...

 

Firemen are well trained.

 

There are no hero's on a football pitch !

 

Firemen run the risk of being trampled to death by football players as they are running into a burning building...

 

Training, yes you can self teach how to fly a model plane.

 

What people are so paranoid about is the tyros, the unresponsible i can do anything  i like consiquence free moronic ones that do exist, causing mayhem and possible death in a park or anywhere else setting, resulting in the hobby being banned, for all of us.

 

Things are so different these days compared to 20, 30 or 40 years ago. At that time you could fly more or less anywhere but the ANO did exist.

 

These days things are so much different, with laws...

 

Exeter, there will be slope soaring sites...

 

If your going it alone, at least take a look out person with you.

 

Research research research...

Look at outerzone found plan.

 

Home brew glider has room for electric power...

 

Make your sonata well, trim it well, it will fly well but you need stuff in place like prop the dipping wing etc..

 

Learn basic principle of flight, you may discover how a carburettor works.

 

Then, one day, when you, the glider, weather and the empty park area are all ready, go fly.

 

Being a glider, landings should be easy, but will need a lot of "runway"..

 

Go see some slope soaring...on the way back, get a £3 kids chuck glider.

Look at it, understand how it glided, trim it to produce a long flat glide, learn how to make it do what you want it to do. A cheap initial learning curve.

 

Can old dogs learn new tricks ?  Hell yes !

 

Safe flying is no accident.

 

Enjoy.

 

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Rich Griff

[Greg]

1 hour ago, Dale Bradly said:

Greg, go nuts. I used to spend a lot of time parkflying and really enjoyed it. It improved my general flying skills a lot, principally in regard to not being afraid of the ground. Of the models i personally have had, for beginner suitability i would suggest the multiplex funcub. Similar models currently available could be timbers, tundras, kingfishers. Have fun!

 

Hello Dale,

 

Exactly. Have Fun! That is all I want to do. Apart from flying the building of a balsa kit is important to me as well. I get an extreme amount of pleasure seeing whatever I am building coming together. I know that clubs are important to people not only for the flying but the social gathering and the support of others. After all, I belonged to one very big club for 20 years. It was called the fire service where camaraderie and "I've got your back" was extremely important. So I apologize to all those different club members out there but I am just not interested.

 

Thank for the recommendations.

[Greg]

1 hour ago, John Lee said:

In the USA the AMA (equivalent of the BMFA) have a Membership category of 'Park Pilot' who are limited to models weighing less than 2 pounds & fly at less than 60mph, often - as the name implies - in Parks or Public Recreational Areas.

 

Greg, you may want to browse through https://www.theparkpilot.org/ where you can find several appropriate model reviews together with a number of downloadable plans and build articles for lightweight 'Park fly' models.

Hello John,

 

Now that is interesting. Why have not seen this before? Park flying. I will certainly have a good read of that site. Thank you for pointing me in that direction.

[Greg]

1 hour ago, leccyflyer said:

Greg - for your situation as you have described it, what you are looking for is a parkflyer - a lightweight (<1lb), electric-powered, high wing model, optionally with some stabilisation aids but most importantly slow and stable. These can be of foam - examples such as the Multiplex PicoCub or similar - or built up balsa construction - the West Wings Beguine was a good choice, but sadly discontinued some years ago -and, especially when coupled with some simulator time are a viable entry point for model flying.

 

Best of luck with your model flying adventure.

You have hit the nail on the head. Slow and Stable. That is exactly what I am looking for in both foam and a balsa kit. At 74 my reactions are not going to be as quick as they used to be so the above criteria is important not only for enjoyment but safety as well. If I break it whilst enjoying myself I only have myself to blame. Then I get the enjoyment of figuring out a way to repair it!

[Greg]

1 hour ago, Rich Griff said:

Hi again Greg...

 

Firemen are well trained.

 

There are no hero's on a football pitch !

 

Firemen run the risk of being trampled to death by football players as they are running into a burning building...

 

Training, yes you can self teach how to fly a model plane.

 

What people are so paranoid about is the tyros, the unresponsible i can do anything  i like consiquence free moronic ones that do exist, causing mayhem and possible death in a park or anywhere else setting, resulting in the hobby being banned, for all of us.

 

Things are so different these days compared to 20, 30 or 40 years ago. At that time you could fly more or less anywhere but the ANO did exist.

 

These days things are so much different, with laws...

 

Exeter, there will be slope soaring sites...

 

If your going it alone, at least take a look out person with you.

 

Research research research...

Look at outerzone found plan.

 

Home brew glider has room for electric power...

 

Make your sonata well, trim it well, it will fly well but you need stuff in place like prop the dipping wing etc..

 

Learn basic principle of flight, you may discover how a carburettor works.

 

Then, one day, when you, the glider, weather and the empty park area are all ready, go fly.

 

Being a glider, landings should be easy, but will need a lot of "runway"..

 

Go see some slope soaring...on the way back, get a £3 kids chuck glider.

Look at it, understand how it glided, trim it to produce a long flat glide, learn how to make it do what you want it to do. A cheap initial learning curve.

 

Can old dogs learn new tricks ?  Hell yes !

 

Safe flying is no accident.

 

Enjoy.

 

 

Hello Rich,

 

I completely agree with what you have said!!

[Simon Chaddock]

Greg

Don't make light of the insurance issue.

Not long after I started flying at the field (10 years ago now!) I was challenged by someone who seemed to know what he was talking about as to whether I had insurance. I replied quite correctly that it is not (yet!) a legal requirement in the UK and pointed out few dog owners have liability insurance.

After that I decided to get insurance through membership of the BMFA so if challenged again I could say 'yes and up to £25 million" on the basis that would likely be the end of the issue.

Of course if you ever fly at a club "open day", took a while before I felt confident enough to do so, evidence of such insurance will be required.

 

"Fly, crash, repair, repeat" is certainly what keeps me going and I am a bit older than you. 😉

    

[Rich Griff]

Before you make your sonata, draw outlines of all ribs etc. as accurately as you can. Photocopy them if you have to.

 

I assume the kit comes with a plan.

 

This way, you have access to a "kit" of parts when needed.

 

During your excercise walks, look at slow flying birds and mimick tx stick movements as if you are flying the bird. Sounds daft but is not.

 

You will be on a steep learning curve soon so be prepared, even for the unexpected.

 

Do you know an RC flyer, a good one ?

 

Never be afraid of saying "I don't know, but I will find out".

 

A basic plan of your proposed flying site would be informative...

[Greg]

44 minutes ago, Simon Chaddock said:

Greg

Don't make light of the insurance issue.

Not long after I started flying at the field (10 years ago now!) I was challenged by someone who seemed to know what he was talking about as to whether I had insurance. I replied quite correctly that it is not (yet!) a legal requirement in the UK and pointed out few dog owners have liability insurance.

After that I decided to get insurance through membership of the BMFA so if challenged again I could say 'yes and up to £25 million" on the basis that would likely be the end of the issue.

Of course if you ever fly at a club "open day", took a while before I felt confident enough to do so, evidence of such insurance will be required.

 

"Fly, crash, repair, repeat" is certainly what keeps me going and I am a bit older than you. 😉

    

Hello Simon,

 

I would certainly not make light of insurance. I'm a great believer in insurance. I've got some much insurance I could start my own brokers. I think I have got just about everything covered including our year old Border Collie dog named Stanley. 😁

[GrumpyGnome]

Hi Greg

 

Don't be surprised to see s major difference with the US and UK 'definition' of a Park Flyer...... wverything's bigger in the US of A!

 

Not sure if we've said, but if you don't get a RTF plane, you'll need additional stuff.  Foam planes generally need a transmitter, receiver, lipo battery (and suitable charger). If you go balsa, you'll need to buy more stuff to build it, and some more stuff (motor, speed controller, servos) to get in the air..... more help here once you decide what to get!

 

 

[paul devereux]

On 16/01/2023 at 13:42, Greg said:

Thank you all for the comments but I see that rather than give me advice on what would be a good trainer to start with the subject of clubs has been raised again as it was when I asked for advice on purchasing my first glider kit. I do understand that you are all only trying to be helpful and stop me from making a disaster of my entry into the hobby and that I should join a club. The subject of clubs and flying regulations which was also mentioned by members on my first posts when I joined the forum enquiring about recommendations for a powered glider kit. As I have said before due to two bad experiences I am not interested in clubs. I am 74 now and although not something I want share but recently I was ill and whilst recovering it occurred to me that I should try to fulfil some of my ambitions such RC flying and RC boating before it was too late. So, having said that you may see why I just want to go it alone and have some fun and disasters without other concerns. It is not like I am young and going to make a life long commitment to the hobby where a club would be an advantage. 

 

Also, I do have some intelligence and I am quite aware that teaching myself is fraught with problems. I am aware of orientation when flying and getting confused. I am aware that a gyro system is not the answer to successful flight training. I am aware that I must be careful of other people close by when flying. I know not to fly on a windy day which may cause me more problems. I like to think that I have used my time wisely researching the this and the RC boating hobby.  So please could we not mention clubs anymore. I know that sounds harsh and you are only looking out for my own interests but I would just like to know what first aircraft are good and which are not.

 

I see that it has been mentioned in a reply to my post that it would appear that I am only interested in foam aircraft. Far from it. I did say in my original post that I would like recommendations on kits. Balsa kits. As with my wooden model ship building the construction of the model is a great part of the enjoyment of the hobby. I only mentioned foam trainers as a means to an end when learning to fly whilst building a Balsa kit. 

 

Simulators have also been mentioned as an aide to learning to fly. I have posted another request for recommendations on a good downloadable simulator for my PC that I could use. It does not have to be free, I am prepared to pay for a good simulator. One that I can link a controller to to get experience in it's use. As yet I have not had any replies to the post so if anyone could recommend a simulator I would be grateful.

 

Thank you again for everyone's well meaning advice. It may not appear it but I do really apricate the help.

 

I've just bought a dongle for £20 and downloaded free Phoenix flight sim. It's good to practise on and crashes are pain-free.If you look at YouTube you will be able to see the Phoenix sim in action. I'll post some links.

https://www.flyingtech.co.uk/accessories/usb-flight-simulator-adapter-cable-phoenix-aerofly-fms for the dongle and lead to connect to your Tx.

Phoenix Simulator Downloads – RC-Thoughts.com- to download Phoenix 

https://youtu.be/X-hPbfW_Ktw?t=537 to get an idea of what flying with Phoenix is like

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by paul devereux

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

7 hours ago, Greg said:

Thank you John. Yes the odds are stacked against me but I have to overlook my age and my disability and adapt to what I can and can not do. I do feel a little aggrieved at been lectured on Clubs ( I am beginning to hate the word club). And also aggrieved at the suggestion that by trying to fly on my own in a busy recreation ground causing multiple injuries to anyone present would give the hobby a bad name which would be all my fault. As I said before. Please credit me with some sense and intelligence. I spent 20 years as a fireman where health and safety were at the forefront of our daily work. I know that their are irresponsible people out there but not all of us.   

 

Thank you for the recommendation of the aircraft. When I first wrote this post that is all I wanted from those with experience of RC aircraft. Model recommendations!!!

 

As you are a moderator I will mention now that although I the majority of advice I received has been very help in my research of the hobby I think it is probably time I call it quits with the forum. 

 

Nowhere have I mentioned you joining a club Greg, although this is a club of sorts, full of opinions, a wealth of experience and well meaning people who want people to succeed when entering the hobby.

Will they sugarcoat things for you ? Nope, they'll tell you the downsides as well, plus the dangers we can present to others, this is a public forum afterall. What they will do, is offer help at every stage, answer questions without fail. When your pride and joy arrives in it's box it'll likely say it's the perfect trainer, success is guaranteed, reality is likely to be different and any help you can get should be made use of.

I very much doubt anyones questioning your intelect, it's just they've been there done that, you'll be surprised how often you've an audience appear when you go fly at some out of the way venue, we've been there, done that.

I learnt to fly on a public field at side of Doncaster racecourse (No club), me and my neighbour  Bob, recently retired Leading Fireman, never killed anyone nor damaged property, times have changed though, new regs/laws would prevent that.

Quit the forum ? Again I've no intention of telling you what to do, choice is yours. I would advise sticking with it though, they're a good group and mean well.

[Greg]

15 hours ago, GrumpyGnome said:

Hi Greg

 

Don't be surprised to see s major difference with the US and UK 'definition' of a Park Flyer...... wverything's bigger in the US of A!

 

Not sure if we've said, but if you don't get a RTF plane, you'll need additional stuff.  Foam planes generally need a transmitter, receiver, lipo battery (and suitable charger). If you go balsa, you'll need to buy more stuff to build it, and some more stuff (motor, speed controller, servos) to get in the air..... more help here once you decide what to get!

 

 

Hello,

 

Thank you very much for all the information. Yes, I suppose that our parks are the size of postage stamps compared to the US!

 

Thank you for the kind offer of help. It is much apricated.

 

[Greg]

15 hours ago, paul devereux said:

I've just bought a dongle for £20 and downloaded free Phoenix flight sim. It's good to practise on and crashes are pain-free.If you look at YouTube you will be able to see the Phoenix sim in action. I'll post some links.

https://www.flyingtech.co.uk/accessories/usb-flight-simulator-adapter-cable-phoenix-aerofly-fms for the dongle and lead to connect to your Tx.

Phoenix Simulator Downloads – RC-Thoughts.com- to download Phoenix 

https://youtu.be/X-hPbfW_Ktw?t=537 to get an idea of what flying with Phoenix is like

 

Hello Paul,

 

Thank you for the information. I will have a look at what you have sent.

 

Thanks again.

[Greg]

15 hours ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

 

Nowhere have I mentioned you joining a club Greg, although this is a club of sorts, full of opinions, a wealth of experience and well meaning people who want people to succeed when entering the hobby.

Will they sugarcoat things for you ? Nope, they'll tell you the downsides as well, plus the dangers we can present to others, this is a public forum afterall. What they will do, is offer help at every stage, answer questions without fail. When your pride and joy arrives in it's box it'll likely say it's the perfect trainer, success is guaranteed, reality is likely to be different and any help you can get should be made use of.

I very much doubt anyones questioning your intelect, it's just they've been there done that, you'll be surprised how often you've an audience appear when you go fly at some out of the way venue, we've been there, done that.

I learnt to fly on a public field at side of Doncaster racecourse (No club), me and my neighbour  Bob, recently retired Leading Fireman, never killed anyone nor damaged property, times have changed though, new regs/laws would prevent that.

Quit the forum ? Again I've no intention of telling you what to do, choice is yours. I would advise sticking with it though, they're a good group and mean well.

Hello John,

 

Thank you for the reply. I do know that everyone means well with the advice they have given and I do accept what they say. But when I said that I did not want to join a club I still kept receiving responses about joining clubs. I can't help how I feel. I have had, over the years, two bad experiences in to different clubs  which to me were intimidating and embarrassing in one and just down right embarrassing in the other. I won't name the clubs but they were not to do with RC flying. On one occasion a member of the club got verbally aggressive because I decided not to use a plan of his. On the other, I went to my first meeting. Without going into the full details I think the club members broke the world record for being antisocial. I managed to spend the whole evening without being spoken to. Those that I asked questions of were monosyllabic with their answers. I left that the end of the evening never to return.  

 

Having joined this forum with absolutely know knowledge of RC flying I am learning fast and for that I thank the members who have helped. It really is appreciated. 

[Peter Christy]

I see a lot of members recommending quite large models here as being suitable trainers. My own experience is that whilst many of the "vintage" trainers (Super 60, etc) make far better trainers than more modern designs - especially for "self teaching" - smaller designs can be just as good.

 

Based on recent experience of letting a fellow club member have a go with my vintage trainer, I would recommend the Veron Robot . This was one of the best training aircraft of the 60s, and remains a very good ab initio trainer today. It is sturdy, flies very well and is compact enough to fit easily into a small family car.

 

This is a traditional balsa design, but I see you mention you've had some experience in building balsa models, so that should pose no problems for you. It is designed for I/C power, but would be very easy to modify for electric should you so wish.

 

I let a "trainee" have a go with my example a year or so back. He had been trying to learn on some of the models I see highly recommended in this thread, and not getting very far. I got mine up to a safe height and handed him the transmitter (no buddy-lead necessary). He was doing circuits around the field in no time at all. He said he couldn't believe how easy it was compared to the aircraft he had previously been recommended.

 

Like any aeroplane, it still needs a fairly delicate touch to fly successfully. Never more so than on a maiden flight, where you are not only a novice, but also a test pilot - not always a good combination, especially in a place open to the public! There is nothing more difficult to fly than an out-of-trim aircraft, so if you have built it yourself, I strongly recommend getting an experienced pilot to carry out the maiden flight. And until you have mastered "circuits and bumps" (take-off or launch, fly around and land nearby), keep well away from public open spaces! Just because you are "allowed" to fly there does not make it a good idea!

 

I was lucky enough to have access to some fairly isolated moorland when I was learning, many decades ago. My first successful RC flight was on my own, with a "Mini-Robot" (scaled down version of the Robot) with rudder-only control (no elevators, ailerons or throttle). However, I had a few years experience of flying control-line models, and the Mini-Robot was small and light enough to test glide from a hand launch before committing to powered flight, so I knew the model itself was properly trimmed.

 

Today England is a much more crowded and litigious place. Whilst I may not agree with many of the models suggested in this thread, I do agree that getting help in the early stages from an experienced pilot is a very good idea!

 

Best of luck!

 

--

Pete

 

 

 

[Greg]

20 minutes ago, Peter Christy said:

I see a lot of members recommending quite large models here as being suitable trainers. My own experience is that whilst many of the "vintage" trainers (Super 60, etc) make far better trainers than more modern designs - especially for "self teaching" - smaller designs can be just as good.

 

Based on recent experience of letting a fellow club member have a go with my vintage trainer, I would recommend the Veron Robot . This was one of the best training aircraft of the 60s, and remains a very good ab initio trainer today. It is sturdy, flies very well and is compact enough to fit easily into a small family car.

 

This is a traditional balsa design, but I see you mention you've had some experience in building balsa models, so that should pose no problems for you. It is designed for I/C power, but would be very easy to modify for electric should you so wish.

 

I let a "trainee" have a go with my example a year or so back. He had been trying to learn on some of the models I see highly recommended in this thread, and not getting very far. I got mine up to a safe height and handed him the transmitter (no buddy-lead necessary). He was doing circuits around the field in no time at all. He said he couldn't believe how easy it was compared to the aircraft he had previously been recommended.

 

Like any aeroplane, it still needs a fairly delicate touch to fly successfully. Never more so than on a maiden flight, where you are not only a novice, but also a test pilot - not always a good combination, especially in a place open to the public! There is nothing more difficult to fly than an out-of-trim aircraft, so if you have built it yourself, I strongly recommend getting an experienced pilot to carry out the maiden flight. And until you have mastered "circuits and bumps" (take-off or launch, fly around and land nearby), keep well away from public open spaces! Just because you are "allowed" to fly there does not make it a good idea!

 

I was lucky enough to have access to some fairly isolated moorland when I was learning, many decades ago. My first successful RC flight was on my own, with a "Mini-Robot" (scaled down version of the Robot) with rudder-only control (no elevators, ailerons or throttle). However, I had a few years experience of flying control-line models, and the Mini-Robot was small and light enough to test glide from a hand launch before committing to powered flight, so I knew the model itself was properly trimmed.

 

Today England is a much more crowded and litigious place. Whilst I may not agree with many of the models suggested in this thread, I do agree that getting help in the early stages from an experienced pilot is a very good idea!

 

Best of luck!

 

--

Pete

 

 

 

Hello Pete,

 

Thank you for a lot of very useful information. I was thinking about an experienced flyer and it suddenly occurred to me that someone I know has an adult son who seem to do everything RC. I'll ask my friend to ask his son if he would help me.

 

Thanks again.

 

[Simon Chaddock]

Greg

Even if he cannot actually help you fly at least get him to 'look over' your plane once it is assembled and operating. He may well spot a setting or adjustment that if left alone would most likely mean you would crash in short order.

The first few seconds of flight with a new untested RC plane is always a bit of a 'heart in mouth' moment no matter how experienced you are. 😉  

[Rich Griff]

Hi again Greg,

 

Yes, an experienced look over your sonata after your have made it, fitted it out, balanced it fore and aft and side to side with everything in it, AND c of g, slightly nose down, not forgetting correct control response, and finally a maiden test flight trimmed properly, the controls can be handed to you.

 

Electric power so when up to hieght, turn off motor and float/glide about......repeat, repeat, repeat practising figure of eights in both directions and over each shoulder keeping the glider UP WIND, and practise landing approaches at hieght, you will learn quite quickly.

 

3 dimensional model boat...

 

I am still wondering about your flying site, and, how you are going to launch it ?

 

Yuo should by now have driven the wife nuts saying "prop the dipping wing with the stick" out loud ?

 

This needs to be automatic, a reflex, instinct, needing no thinking time, a natural response, to stop an approaching out of control moment becoming terminal.

 

Gravity always wins.

 

I am sure your friend's son would help, standing by you keeping an eye out for "strangers" and for safe flying/no bad habits....

 

Did you get a £3 foam kids chuck glider yet, and, research local slope soaring sites ?

 

Machine mart/dickies do a good internally quilted overall that are warm, to keep you warm etc...which is important...

 

Enjoy...

 

[Cuban8]

55 minutes ago, Simon Chaddock said:

Greg

Even if he cannot actually help you fly at least get him to 'look over' your plane once it is assembled and operating. He may well spot a setting or adjustment that if left alone would most likely mean you would crash in short order.

The first few seconds of flight with a new untested RC plane is always a bit of a 'heart in mouth' moment no matter how experienced you are. 😉  

Out of dozens of models that I was asked to check over by beginners, every single one required a degree of adjustment to control throws - always far too much as set by the builder - or the favourite showstopper was rudder working in the wrong direction.

The Sonata is a great choice, I had one of Cliff Goater's original 'E' versions back in the late 80s bought at Sandown. Vice free when set up and capable of some good thermal flights in the right hands. Think I did 45 minutes on one occasion!

Edited January 18, 2023 by Cuban8

[Rich Griff]

And/or ailerons, even valley got that one wrong....once.

[Cuban8]

1 hour ago, Rich Griff said:

And/or ailerons, even valley got that one wrong....once.

Funny, but I think everyone managed to get the ailerons correct but there's something that confuses some beginners about how the rudder works, especially on a four channel model. Full house as we used to call them.