RC Aircraft Trainer - Foam and Kit

[Greg]

As a beginner to RC flying I am interested to find out some information about trainer aircraft. When I recently joined this forum I was interested in finding what would be the best powered glider kit to buy for the beginner. Many of you have provided me with a lot of information about what to purchase to get started. Which I was very grateful for and I am now actively  purchasing my first glider.

 

But having caught the bug I would also be interested in recommendations for the future in what members would consider good trainers for example the Cessna or similar in both foam aircraft (so I can break it and not cry) that has a stabilization gyro fitted and suitable trainer kits to build. Building skills are not an issue as I have extensive experience in building wooden model boats and ships

 

It would be great to here from members what they would recommend. 

 

Thanks.

[John Lee]

ST Models Discovery, used for training at the RCHotel Corfu:

and my own, modified with Axi Motor & digital servos, can climb vertically out of sight:

[kc]

Build a balsa model - they can be repaired if damaged - consider building a Super 60 from plan on Outerzone, or a Wot Trainer kit from Chriss Foss.   Any scale model will take much more time to construct than a proper trainer.

 

Make sure you buy a copy of the latest -February- RCME due out this week with a free plan for an electric Ofourniner which is simple in construction with minimal material.   Easy first balsa build and there will be lots of advice online as this will be a popular design I reckon.   A modern electric version of an older design for small glow engine.  

[Andy Gates]

I would second the Wot Trainer machine, although I would head for the Chris Foss Kit Uno Wot which is the same machine but can be build stronger and lighter than the Wot Trainer, and as it is a kit - it is easier to adapt if you want to go electric.

[Peter Miller]

The O-Four9ier-E will  be a kit from Sarik which will save you some time.

It is a great little model (Yes,I am biased)  You might want to use the lower control rates for a start.

[leccyflyer]

Like Andy said, the UNO Wot is a marvellous trainer and can be electrified very successfully. Nice easy build too.

 

If, given your current experience with boat building, you'd be happier will a fully built up trainer there was an excellent article in RCM&E March 2021 on the DB Mascot trainer, with an electric conversion - a proper traditional 59" span trainer, eminently suitable for the traditional entry to the hobby, especially if you will be learning with an instructor.

 

Regarding repairability, foam models can be just as repairable as balsa models, using established techniques with Gorilla glue, hot water and various methods of restoring the model to a flyable state. It might not be as pretty, but it certainly can be done, with a clean break.

[Cuban8]

No one size fits all approach to learning to fly models IMHO. Interested in clubs or just the occasional solitary flight on a nearby patch of land? - A natural ability with flying or someone who really needs to work at it? - Fun fly type models to be knocked about or working towards detailed scale modelling?

Depending on one's requirements the choice of trainer may well differ.

[Greg]

Thank you all for the advice. Very helpful

[Greg]

1 hour ago, Cuban8 said:

No one size fits all approach to learning to fly models IMHO. Interested in clubs or just the occasional solitary flight on a nearby patch of land? - A natural ability with flying or someone who really needs to work at it? - Fun fly type models to be knocked about or working towards detailed scale modelling?

Depending on one's requirements the choice of trainer may well differ.

Thanks for the advice. In answer to your question. I'm not interested in a club just going to my local recreational ground or local farm field and have some interesting time flying and crashing. Although I said in my original post I would like to have already fitted or fit myself a gyro stabilization device to aide me in my training. What I did not mention was I would like the aircraft to be electrically powered and not by and engine. Any further recommendations would be welcomed. 

[SIMON CRAGG]

I would strongly recommend visiting your nearest club in the first instance.

Why?

They will probably have a club trainer that you fly on the "buddy lead", which will give you some initial stick time.

The club will be able to give you advice on BMFA insurance, the latest CAA rules and how to learn in a safe / controlled environment.

 

Going to the local park and flying is fraught with difficulty.

Why?

If you are trying to teach yourself, all the stabilization gizmos will not make learning that much easier to start with.

Worst case, you might hit somebody / something with the obvious ramifications.

The model may well fly off never to be seen a gain.

You will miss out on the camaraderie / banter / tea drinking that goes on at most club sites!. 

 

[Allan Bennett]

1 hour ago, Greg said:

Thanks for the advice. In answer to your question. I'm not interested in a club just going to my local recreational ground or local farm field and have some interesting time flying and crashing.  . . . 

 

Please make yourself familiar with the rules regarding model flying (all RC aircraft are 'drones' according to the legal definition), especially in public areas.

[Cuban8]

4 hours ago, Greg said:

Thanks for the advice. In answer to your question. I'm not interested in a club just going to my local recreational ground or local farm field and have some interesting time flying and crashing. Although I said in my original post I would like to have already fitted or fit myself a gyro stabilization device to aide me in my training. What I did not mention was I would like the aircraft to be electrically powered and not by and engine. Any further recommendations would be welcomed. 

Greg, you are very typical of the type of newcomer to the hobby that we are seeing more of these days. i.e not really interested in clubs or becoming involved in lengthy balsa builds and IC power. I suppose you just wish to become a model aircraft flyer rather than what most of us would regard as  a traditional aeromodeller. Nothing wrong with that of course and indeed certain advantages in this busy and pressed for time world now.

I guess that unless one has a model with a full autopilot facility with gps this and that, then learning to fly even a simple model - possibly with stabilisation or SAFE technology will not guarantee damaging the model or having a flyaway.

If you do fancy going the full diy route, I'd recommend a flight sim first so you can get used to the basics of control and orientation. A lot has been discussed about this on here recently, so search these pages for what's been said. With a fair bit of homework on the sim under your belt you stand a reasonable chance of not getting caught out for real, but no guarantee of not damaging your model. You'll need a decent sized site that's free of obstructions and trees and hopefully without houses nearby. Even your little inoffensive foamy can cover a lot of ground when out of it's master's command and you don't want to be climbing trees or knocking on residents' doors asking for it back or apologising for the damaged greenhouse glass.

Therefore don't even consider flying a model without BMFA cover or following the rules about registration etc.

I'm not a fan of going it alone, but times change and there are plug and play, ready to go, stabilised models available for not a lot of money these days that given the right flying site and waiting for perfect conditions, may well lead to success for the careful beginner lone flyer. Good luck.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Cuban8

[Cuban8]

https://youtu.be/KodwHuVPbxQ

Been looking around at these cheap, so called "any beginner can fly" models and I think this vid shows the problem for the person who has never flown before at all.

If you fly the model at anything but part throttle  and not much above minimum flying speed, then the model will get away from you very quickly - orientation will be impossible and that will be that.

The guy in the film is an experienced flyer and can cope with the small and fast model, but the way he flys is unhelpful in not showing its slow speed characteristics. Looked like a couple of close calls tbh. The chances are that a beginner may well launch it at full chat and even in beginner mode, it'll be the size of a flyspeck in a few seconds as our new pilot assimilates what it's doing and with predictable results. 

 

[Andy Gates]

As  you say Cuban8, all that video shows is that it is too quick and small for a learner to use while still using quite a large area to fly in.

 

I will stick to the E-Pioneer and Ripmax Trainer I use to train people, both of which have gone through a weight reduction program so they do fly nice and slowly.

[leccyflyer]

Along with several clubmates I've got a few of the warbird versions of those Volantrex/Sonik RC/Eachine stabilised models and they are definitely a game changer for someone who is determined to want to have a go of flying themselves, without a club. In beginner mode the model is steered around the sky, can cope with a gentle wind and, provided you keep it reasonably close to yourself and don't fly it out of range it's great for having a go at flying a small model at a modest cost and at low risk.

 

The models are very lightweight - well under the 250g limit requiring an operator and flyer ID number - the light weight also means they don't tend to suffer any damage in an arrival, the knock-off prop is a help there. All in all these wee models are great fun.  However they aren't teaching you to fly in any real sense and I don't believe that a beginner is going to learn very much from flying them, which would be useful in moving to more conventional models. Outside of the beginner mode they become a real handful, even for an experienced flyer. It's not really like, for instance, learning with a SAFE/A3X model such as the Apprentice, where the flight stabilisation is more of an aid, which can be reduced in the level to which the model will self-right and which - judging by the progress of a couple of beginners at one of my clubs - can definitely help a lot with learning to fly.

[leccyflyer]

1 hour ago, Cuban8 said:

https://youtu.be/KodwHuVPbxQ

Been looking around at these cheap, so called "any beginner can fly" models and I think this vid shows the problem for the person who has never flown before at all.

If you fly the model at anything but part throttle  and not much above minimum flying speed, then the model will get away from you very quickly - orientation will be impossible and that will be that.

The guy in the film is an experienced flyer and can cope with the small and fast model, but the way he flys is unhelpful in not showing its slow speed characteristics. Looked like a couple of close calls tbh. The chances are that a beginner may well launch it at full chat and even in beginner mode, it'll be the size of a flyspeck in a few seconds as our new pilot assimilates what it's doing and with predictable results. 

 

These models can literally fly at walking speed - they are more fun whizzing about - but they can be flown slowly as well.

[GrumpyGnome]

1 hour ago, leccyflyer said:

These models can literally fly at walking speed - they are more fun whizzing about - but they can be flown slowly as well.

Really?  a club mate brings one to our indoor sessions and can't fly at less than about 75% throttle, it just falls out of the sky with a vicious tip stall.  Maybe they're quite variable in performance....

[leccyflyer]

I wouldn't dream of trying to fly one indoors, the turning circle on beginner mode is so wide you would need a huge hall. To fly one indoors would probably be in expert mode and then all bets are off, it's just an un-stabilised model.

[GrumpyGnome]

Definitely variable then. 

 

We have a relatively small hall - 4 badminton courts; he flies on beginner mode as it's a tad uncontrollable on intermediate and expert.  He flies constant figures of 8, and if taking off from ground, it determines it's own direction!  Landings are always 'arrivals'.

 

Nice cheap way of getting into the air though.

[Denis Watkins]

You two, are both so right. The models are difficult to fly as they have to be flown so fast, yet the more expensive lightweights can be flown more scale like.

My own successful models are home built, EPP foam, 100grm AUW, 16" - 20" span, 6A ESC, with 2S 300mah lipo, with 10grm or less, brushless motor.

 

[Christopher Wolfe]

Learning to fly.

 

I taught my children to fly r/c models the same way that I was taught about 40 years ago.

 

As my instructor remarked, "No buddy boxes back in my day so just pass me the transmitter when I tell you. Don't ask questions, just do it immediately and I shall explain why later".

 

His model was big and slow with a 4-stroke OS engine and it was called a Buzzard Bombshell.

 

After flying what he called 'four mistakes high' he would hand me the box and ask me to do gentle left and right turns.

 

After throttling back I was told to fly towards myself and to keep the wings level by pushing the stick towards the low wing. This aircraft did not even have ailerons, just a rudder, elevator and throttle.

 

Then I was taught how to land with the engine just ticking over and until I could land on the runway ten out of ten times
my instructor refused to teach me how to take off because he said 'if you cannot land then it is futile to teach you how to take off'

 

The model also had one interesting characteristic, if things got a bit awkward I was told 50% throttle and then let go of the sticks.

Wow, we practiced this 'four mistakes high' and it was sweet to see the model sort itself out without intervention.

 

I was told that this was basically a free flight model and quite stable until a radio command upset it's natural stability.

 

chris

[Greg]

20 hours ago, Allan Bennett said:

 

Please make yourself familiar with the rules regarding model flying (all RC aircraft are 'drones' according to the legal definition), especially in public areas.

Thank you. One of our parish councillors lives nearby. I have checked with him with regards to flying at our recreation ground and he says that the area is approved for flying. 

[Jake Bullit]

Either of these two models would make good trainers and come with everything you need  to get started.

 

 

https://www.modelshopleeds.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=37_763&sort=1a&products_id=62417

 

https://www.modelshopleeds.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=37_763&sort=1a&products_id=67310

[Cuban8]

43 minutes ago, Jake Bullit said:

Either of these two models would make good trainers and come with everything you need  to get started.

 

 

https://www.modelshopleeds.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=37_763&sort=1a&products_id=62417

 

https://www.modelshopleeds.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=37_763&sort=1a&products_id=67310

They do look good although my main worry is still that in my experience of training beginners from scratch in the past (retired now,) they do tend to fly the model too far away from themselves in the initial stages. I suppose that providing a lone beginner drums it into himself that a turn must be made almost immediately after launch and the model kept in close, then they might get away with it. The snag is that a model that's kept in close so you can see it, also appears to be flying and reacting much more quickly than when it's at a distance - so for a while at least, the model seems to be easier to control as it drifts away - not true of course.

I've watched even moderately experienced beginners - while still on the buddy box - gradually allow their circuits to become larger and larger until I've had to regain control because I'm getting close to losing sight of the model!

If I'd have done nothing, then the model would have been allowed to disappear over the horizon.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Cuban8

[Cuban8]

2 hours ago, Christopher Wolfe said:

Learning to fly.

 

I taught my children to fly r/c models the same way that I was taught about 40 years ago.

 

 

 

chris