Beginner questions about radios

[paul devereux]

A few very silly questions: why does this radio have two "edit buttons"? (the buttons just to the left of the wheel). They seem to do the same thing, ie scroll through the menu.

Is setting a low rate (when you set dual rates) the same thing as reducing the end point? Is reducing the end points what is meant by reducing the throws?

And do you need the move the Tx controls when you set dual rates? ( I spent some time trying to reduce the end points before realising I had to move the stick on the Tx to select each point.

As can be gathered, I am new to all this. I've searched Google and YouTube but I think these questions are so basic they are never addressed, so I apologise in advance for asking them.

[Denis Watkins]

Your " end points " are important Paul, as the servo can push too far and Stall, damaging the servo and using up more power from your on-board battery.I

Set the travel so as no strain occurs in the push.

 

2 edit buttons are quite common for setting up either hand

And yes, apply the sticks to see the results as you adjust.

 

Page 1, basic questions, are vital in all walks of life.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Denis Watkins

[Graham Bowers]

Computer radios are quite complex and in my opinion the best way to learn is from a human mentor who can test for understanding.

 

If that's not possible Youtube can be both friend and foe however is probably your best option. I've had a quick look and there are plenty of "basic setup" videos however none I've found guide the viewer through the entire setup process, however do deal with the various topics piecemeal. Many will have their favourites however my go-to channels are "painless 360" and "RC video reviews" however don't let that put you off others.

 

This page deals with quite a few aspects of transmitter setup in the same place.

 

https://www.modelairplanenews.com/10-radio-setup-secrets/

 

Half the trouble is understanding the jargon as one doesn't know what one doesn't know.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Graham Bowers
Pressed the publish button too soon!!

[Denis Watkins]

Your rate switch allows you to set up full throw of each control surface ( High ) and to lower the movements to less aggressive ( low )

For example,

The Elevator can be tricky, as at Full throw the Model can be all over the place, so initially have say 20mm movement up and down for high, which would be intermediate to some, but good for lower speed at the landing stage, and 10mm up and down on low, for cruising around, then as All settings after the maiden flight, rethink and reset them.

[paul devereux]

34 minutes ago, Denis Watkins said:

Your rate switch allows you to set up full throw of each control surface ( High ) and to lower the movements to less aggressive ( low )

For example,

The Elevator can be tricky, as at Full throw the Model can be all over the place, so initially have say 20mm movement up and down for high, which would be intermediate to some, but good for lower speed at the landing stage, and 10mm up and down on low, for cruising around, then as All settings after the maiden flight, rethink and reset them.

Do you need a separate switch each for ailerons and elevator, or can you adjust both controls on one switch?

[Denis Watkins]

No, never one switch.

Look at your radio, aileron dual rate on the right, elevator dual rate on the left.

Set nice and calm for the maiden, with your tutor, then in the future, set your way.

[paul devereux]

1 hour ago, Graham Bowers said:

Computer radios are quite complex and in my opinion the best way to learn is from a human mentor who can test for understanding.

 

If that's not possible Youtube can be both friend and foe however is probably your best option. I've had a quick look and there are plenty of "basic setup" videos however none I've found guide the viewer through the entire setup process, however do deal with the various topics piecemeal. Many will have their favourites however my go-to channels are "painless 360" and "RC video reviews" however don't let that put you off others.

 

This page deals with quite a few aspects of transmitter setup in the same place.

 

https://www.modelairplanenews.com/10-radio-setup-secrets/

 

Half the trouble is understanding the jargon as one doesn't know what one doesn't know.

Thanks. Until I recently got a second hand 7c, I had a Futaba Challenger, the only options on that I used (and I think it had) were servo reversing, so this is all quite new.

[Graham Bowers]

33 minutes ago, paul devereux said:

Thanks. Until I recently got a second hand 7c, I had a Futaba Challenger, the only options on that I used (and I think it had) were servo reversing, so this is all quite new.

Once you get the hang of it' it'll be a revelation.

[paul devereux]

12 hours ago, Denis Watkins said:

Your " end points " are important Paul, as the servo can push too far and Stall, damaging the servo and using up more power from your on-board battery.I

Set the travel so as no strain occurs in the push.

 

2 edit buttons are quite common for setting up either hand

And yes, apply the sticks to see the results as you adjust.

 

Page 1, basic questions, are vital in all walks of life.

Thanks! Two last stupid questions: surely the servo is set up by the manufacturer to travel a certain distance? That would be 100% of movement. So only if dual rates were set above 100% damage would occur as you would be asking the servo to travel too far?

And the second one: if I set up dual rates, with the lower one with limited travel, I would not need to set up a limited end point as the lower rate will have done that?

And by the way, to all others who have responded to my questions, I have learnt so much in the last couple of days! 

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Going above 100% is fine, It'll not harm the servo.

[Denis Watkins]

20 minutes ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

Going above 100% is fine, It'll not harm the servo.

 

All true, but, it the initial control rods were too long, then an 100% travel setting could stall the servo.

Agreed though, in a ideal set up,

The control surfaces move freely, with the correct length rods, in the correct holes of the horns, and servo set at 100% will do no damage at all.

But if the build is a smidgen out of kilter, then the end point can be reduced.

True too, that On low rates, there would be no need for the end point, but the reduced throw can be set where desired.

[Graham Bowers]

19 hours ago, Denis Watkins said:

No, never one switch.

Look at your radio, aileron dual rate on the right, elevator dual rate on the left.

Set nice and calm for the maiden, with your tutor, then in the future, set your way.

 

Would that be to match a mode 1 setup please?

 

There doesn't seem to be any standardisation  so I'm always interested to read what others are doing, and more importantly, why.

[Colin Carpenter]

I use r/h for aileron, l/h for elevator, top right for rudder. Unusually I think , low rate is switch down because I dont use a neck strap and pinger finch (from helis ) , this helps brace tx ! Colin

[Denis Watkins]

41 minutes ago, Graham Bowers said:

 

Would that be to match a mode 1 setup please?

 

There doesn't seem to be any standardisation  so I'm always interested to read what others are doing, and more importantly, why.

 

Just set your rate switch on the same side as your stick Graham.

In your case, your aileron on the right and your elevator rate on the left.

Standardisation for switches is " All Up "

So rate off High is Up switch.

Rate On Low, is Down switch.

[GrumpyGnome]

Interesting. I have all my rates on a single switch as I find it easier to find one rather than many.  The downside is that there may be a 'harmonisation' whilst I find the sweet spot.  That switch then becomes my Flight Mode switch with any expo/diff/mixes on it.

 

Low Rates (FM0) would be up, mid rates (FM1) middle, high rates (FM2) down..... but as I use a switch on top of the radio, it's low=away, high=towards.  Default for all switches is 'up'.   

 

Many ways to skin a cat!  What's important, is to find what's best for you; and then standardise across all your models, so it becomes second nature what to find where.

 

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

8 hours ago, Denis Watkins said:

 

 

Standardisation for switches is " All Up "

 Where ever did you get that from ?.

 

 I started Helicopters and was 'advised' to put the switches down for off, so a flick up on the switch for Idle one on etc.

[paul devereux]

One more simple question: if I set up dual rates but then put a different Rx in the plane, will the dual rates remain or is it 'bound' to first Rx only?

[Simon Chaddock]

paul

If we are talking Spektrum then their "model match" means each Rx is bound uniquely to the transmitter. The bind process is a two way process as the Rx actually sends its unique code to the Tx which it stores under a particular model name.

 

The dual rates and end stops are a functions of the transmitter so provided the new Rx once it is bound operates the servos in the same way (it should) the dual rates and end stops will be the same.

 

[MattyB]

On 20/02/2023 at 12:07, Denis Watkins said:

No, never one switch.

Look at your radio, aileron dual rate on the right, elevator dual rate on the left.

Set nice and calm for the maiden, with your tutor, then in the future, set your way.

 

9 hours ago, Denis Watkins said:

Just set your rate switch on the same side as your stick Graham.

In your case, your aileron on the right and your elevator rate on the left.

Standardisation for switches is " All Up "

So rate off High is Up switch.

Rate On Low, is Down switch.

 

Your system is your system, but as others have observed there are no true standards here, just individuals preferred ways of setting up. Sometimes these are shaped by  limitations of the radio as to what function can be placed on what switch, but they are certainly not hard and fast rules and should not be presented as such. I for instance never use rate switches any more - I have variable rates on a pot for aileron and elevator on my maiden flight, adjust them to get nicely harmonised controls in each flight mode, then "hard" set them after my first few flights.  After that I just flick the flight mode switch and the rates change appropriately along with lots of other things (mixes, expo rates, flaps and gear deployment etc)

[MattyB]

46 minutes ago, paul devereux said:

One more simple question: if I set up dual rates but then put a different Rx in the plane, will the dual rates remain or is it 'bound' to first Rx only?

 

Based on your opening post being of a Futaba transmitter, no. Things like dual rates, endpoints and mixes are solely properties of the model memory not the RX, so if you fit and bind a different RX to the same model memory the same outputs will come out of the receiver given any given set of stick and switch positions. 

[Phil Green]

Dont forget that the servo travels in an arc, above 100% the "negative exponential" effect of taking a linear feed from a rotary source will be much more pronounced  - the further the rotation, the less linear effect it has on the pushrod, an extreme example, at 90° there is none at all 🙂

Servo clevises can bind when you get above 45° too.

Of course you can have one high & low rates switch for both elevator and aileron, or separate, whichever you prefer. Many flyers prefer one switch or control for overall rates.  Some radios only provide one rates switch!  😀

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Phil Green

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

It balances out in the case of the horn and servo arms being of equal lengths and pivot centres but gets more complex where they differ.  This can introduce a good argument for the use of exponential to mitigate the effects.

 

Location/direction of switches is very much a personal thing, particularly as few modellers habitually fly on others' equipment unless doing test flights where they tend to be relatively experienced and capable of coping with differing layouts. 

[paul devereux]

I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread, I have learnt so much! The computer menu and all the switches frightened me really, now I feel I can scroll through them all and use them as they are intended to be used! Though I expect I'll want to upgrade my Tx/Rx soon- what is the best mid-range, mid-price, user friendly radio to buy? 

[GrumpyGnome]

What a massive can of worms to open!

 

User friendly is a personal thing.  I find EdgeTX and OpenTX to be pretty friendly once you understand the basics.  But.......... the first few steps can be daunting.

 

Mid-price gives you a choice of pretty much every brand except Core and Jeti.

 

Mid-range depends on the brand.

 

So, my views on what seem to be current 'major' players.....

 

Futaba - solid, quality kit. Not cutting edge, options restricted to what they think you need. Can be pricey.

 

Spektrum - decent kit.  Used to be reasonably priced but seem to be trying to move towards higher end stuff.  Can be flexible, but comes at a cost.  Also want to lock you in to the Horizon Hobby ecosystem if you want decent telemetry 

 

FrSky - started as 'cheap and cheerful' but moving more up-market. Initially market leaders in open source operating system (OpenTX), but now moving towards more restrictive system, like Spektrum.  Good telemetry.

 

FlSky - lower end of the market.  Huge value for money (10 channels for £70, including a 10 channel receiver...). Uses 'cut-down' OpenTX so a sort of mish mash of hugely flexible, and sort of restrictive....

 

Radiomaster - mid range.  Stole FrSky's thunder by offering a massively flexible and capable transmitter that can communicate with receivers from most brands.  Hardware is OK, but real strength is full OpenTX or EdgeTX as operating system (EdgeTX is latest offshoot of OpenTX so gets new functionality - like excellent touch screen support).  Great value and can communicate with lots of other manufacturers 2.4 offerings.

 

Jumper, Radiolink - very similar to Radiomaster but sort of following in their footsteps.

 

Personally, I have had many radio sets but recently used Spektrum.  Had no issues and many many of my flying chums use Spekky kit with no issues.  Then I got an FrSky Taranis x9d with OpenTX; massive revelation - I had a piece of kit for a couple of hundred pounds that was more capable/flexible than anything I'd had before.  Then I needed a backup in case my Taranis broke - got a Radiomaster TX16S.  Liked it so much I use it all the time.  Not highest quality feel, but I get 16 channels, the ability to talk to many different receivers, and the ultimate flexibility of EdgeTX.  

 

Older wisdom was to get what your flying buddies/instructor has, so they can help you.  T'internet has changed that and you can get advice off thousands with a few key strokes.  Just like face to face, some advice will be good..... some less so.  But..... getting a piece of kit in your hands can be a massive influence so don't underestimate the 'feel' - try and hold as many as you can!

 

There. Can of worms opened 🙂

Edited February 21, 2023 by GrumpyGnome

[Graham Bowers]

“Best” is a very subjective word, depending on expectations.

 

What, from a user experience perspective, do you think you want? Or put another way, what problem, present or anticipated, do you wish to solve by changing your Tx?

 

If you don't know that, then in my opinion there's a distinct possibility the replacement may be better, or may be worse.

 

I used   a Multiplex MC4000  for some years then changed to open source radios (Taranis and Radiomaster)  as OpenTx seems to pretty much copy the functionality of the MC4000 firmware, where you have pretty much complete freedom. I only changed to the Taranis for it's telemetry  functionality. If you want to know what the capability of OpenTx is and what it does, here's a good place to start http://rcdiy.ca/opentx-guide/

 

I recently bought a Multiplex Cockpit SX 9 and just can't get off with it so it will be sold. It's a beautiful thing, well made, and I've tried so hard to love it. However it's a shadow of the MC4000 and it's functionality is limited to what the firmware menus allow. A clincher is the countdown timer. If you want to have a countdown timer, you are forced to accept one minute reminders for the last 5 mins of your flight. And it doesn't sit well in my hands.

 

Other than that, I concur with @GrumpyGnome. And you have to hold these things in your hands or take a risk.