Is this the end of aeromodelling?

[Clarence Ragland]

Model Aeronautics Association Canada (MAAC) to ground members. – sUAS News – The Business of Drones

 

Transport Canada cancels MAAC exemption for model flying – sUAS News – The Business of Drones

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

I saw this information on the XJET youboob channel,,,

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Rather a sensationalist thread title perhaps?

 

My interpretation is that a national body in Canada has lost its equivalent to our Article 16 exemption due to perceived errors in issuing site permissions. 

 

Model flying in Canada can still take place in the same way that any model flyer here can register as a flyer/operator without being a member of an association.

 

It can be taken as a warning that our organisations must be vigilant and responsible.

[Clarence Ragland]

It could cause many to drop out and who would want to get into this hobby/sport with all the new hoops they would have to jump through?

[Learner]

Possibly but then again possibly not.

Thread closed!

[Cuban8]

Bit of a non-story - paper shufflers appear to have fouled up for the time being, easily rectified I'd have thought.

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

Is it the end of aeromodelling?

 

Short answer, No.  Long answer, No it isn't!

[Peter Jenkins]

20 hours ago, Clarence Ragland said:

It could cause many to drop out and who would want to get into this hobby/sport with all the new hoops they would have to jump through?

Please specify what all these new hoops are?

 

As far as I can see, the biggest difference is that you need to be aware of the impact of air law on how we operate.  You need to pass a very much more complicated test before you can apply for your driving licence but that hasn't put people off.  So, you have to register and pay the CAA an annual charge.  That's done for your by the BMFA if you choose to pay this cost when you pay your Club and BMFA subscriptions.

 

So, one new activity that can be done on-line and can be done "open book" style.  

 

Can't see the problem myself.  If that's too difficult for someone, then I would ask why that person has taken up a hobby like flying RC model aircraft when it is not that different from learning how to drive.

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

22 hours ago, Clarence Ragland said:

It could cause many to drop out and who would want to get into this hobby/sport with all the new hoops they would have to jump through?

Please stop exaggerating the changed in regulations, very minor changes and only tiny hurdles to participation easily cleared.

[leccyflyer]

IIRC, isn't Clarence the chap who claims that everyone else's method of teaching beginners is wrong and positively putting beginners off from starting in the hobby, which could be solved, if only everybody would adopt his teaching methods?

[Cuban8]

The hobby has quite enough to worry about as it is without worrying excessively about government regulation. An ageing membership that is increasingly difficult to replace, pressure on flying fields (one of my clubs is currently worried about plans for a nearby trunk road upgrade), fewer people with reasonably good disposable incomes that can be spent on luxuries like traditional hobbies and a change towards virtual activities that do attract many young people and with it their ££s to the big corporations are all things to take into account.

The BMFA have done a great job to take on the dead hand of government and more or less have us operating as we have done in the past. I have always thought that the recent regs as they affect us are a silly over reaction by persons in government reading far too much into drone delivery for the masses (whatever happened to that, I wonder), overstating the safety aspect of models and drones becoming an increased hazard to full size aviation than in the past - And the blue sky dreaming  of the many advisers and academics who pull figures of millions or even billions of pounds of revenue in their reports to the government on the benefits of commercial UAVs flitting all over the place and doing whatever they can think up for them.

I tend to cherry pick Bruce Simpson's announcements -  yes, he does overdo it from time to time, and a lot of his worries are not directly concerning to us in the UK, but I do share his standpoint on the fact that you can't keep a good bureaucrat down and once they get the bit between their teeth, there's no guarantee as to where they'll wind up.

Take the absurd rules and regs, hoops to jump through and the cost to get a motorbike licence these days! Remember when diesel cars where announced as being the holy grail? Persona non grata now.

It's wrong to be overly pessimistic about the future of our hobby, but beware of the slow drip of regulation - take the cost of CAA registration and the gradual upping of that as an example.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Cuban8

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

3 hours ago, Andy Symons - BMFA said:

Please stop exaggerating the changed in regulations, very minor changes and only tiny hurdles to participation easily cleared.

Not small hurdles, I started a long time flying in France, within reason ( common sense ) you could fly anywhere with only a £5 radio license from the post office for 27mhz radios,

Now we have zones, heights, licenses, you must join a club to fly, an examination allowing you to register with a number to display on your toy, let alone the 250 gram laws, most of this doesn't apply to ultralights !

 

 Hurdles are ok if you can see them, beginners to the sport can't, they are trying to compete in the dark, opps I fell over another one.😥

 

 

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

3 minutes ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

Not small hurdles, I started a long time flying in France, within reason ( common sense ) you could fly anywhere with only a £5 radio license from the post office for 27mhz radios,

Now we have zones, heights, licenses, you must join a club to fly, an examination allowing you to register with a number to display on your toy, let alone the 250 gram laws, most of this doesn't apply to ultralights !

 

 Hurdles are ok if you can see them, beginners to the sport can't, they are trying to compete in the dark, opps I fell over another one.😥

 

 

Only thing that is new in the UK for BMFA members is registration and the requirement to have passed a very simple test that shows you are aware of the regulations. Registration, involves ticking a box and spending £10 for a number to put on your aircraft, very simple and a tiny hurdle.

Passing the test, which is free, open book and gives you all the answers at the end of your attempt is an even tinier hurdle, absolutely nothing to put anyone off. 

 

Of course if some insist on exaggerating the size of the hurdles to newcomers then it is they that are the ones putting people off.

[Peter Jenkins]

Well, if you want to go back to "pre-history" and 27 MHz days then a lot has changed.  I used to be able to go off and fly control line mostly by myself on a patch of grass in Mitcham.  Bet you can't do that now as there will be noise complaints.  I also remember having to buy a radio licence and could fly pretty much where I wanted again mostly on my own.  Bet you can't do that anymore.  Then again, you didn't need an MoT after 3 years. On the other hand, rationing had stopped as had the war.  How far back do you want to go?

 

Meanwhile in the real world, and in the UK, the difference between before drone and after drone laws the difference has been ..... er need to pay £9 per year to the CAA (can be rolled up in the annual membership payment and the need to do the Air Law test every 3 years.  Doing the Air Law test is a good idea for those who come into the hobby/sport with no background in aviation at all.  Helps them to realise what you can and cannot do.

 

That seems to me to be a very small set of hurdles.  Please don't big them up to being life altering events.

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

1 minute ago, Peter Jenkins said:

Meanwhile in the real world, and in the UK, the difference between before drone and after drone laws the difference has been ..... er need to pay £9 per year to the CAA (can be rolled up in the annual membership payment and the need to do the Air Law test every 3 years.  Doing the Air Law test is a good idea for those who come into the hobby/sport with no background in aviation at all.  Helps them to realise what you can and cannot do.

 

That seems to me to be a very small set of hurdles.  Please don't big them up to being life altering events.

It's £10, but the test is now valid for 5 years. 😉

Edited March 1, 2023 by Andy Symons - BMFA

[leccyflyer]

23 minutes ago, Peter Jenkins said:

Well, if you want to go back to "pre-history" and 27 MHz days then a lot has changed.  I used to be able to go off and fly control line mostly by myself on a patch of grass in Mitcham.  Bet you can't do that now as there will be noise complaints.  I also remember having to buy a radio licence and could fly pretty much where I wanted again mostly on my own.  Bet you can't do that anymore.  Then again, you didn't need an MoT after 3 years. On the other hand, rationing had stopped as had the war.  How far back do you want to go?

 

Meanwhile in the real world, and in the UK, the difference between before drone and after drone laws the difference has been ..... er need to pay £9 per year to the CAA (can be rolled up in the annual membership payment and the need to do the Air Law test every 3 years.  Doing the Air Law test is a good idea for those who come into the hobby/sport with no background in aviation at all.  Helps them to realise what you can and cannot do.

 

That seems to me to be a very small set of hurdles.  Please don't big them up to being life altering events.

Agree 100%.

 

Something which would impact the hobby much more than what has happened so far would the the requirement for on-board transponders in every model above 250g.  Hopefully it is not a given that what happens in North America must happen here, as personally I would find that most unfortunate.

[Cuban8]

It does make you wonder just how the powers that be come up with their ideas and on what evidence they base their edicts. In our case, what true value does registering ourselves with the CAA provide and how many cases have there been where registration of a model or drone has been of use to the authorities for whatever reason so far?

There have been a few cases recently (discussed on this very forum) where models, quite legally operated, have finished up where they shouldn't and I suggest that having those models registered made no difference to the outcome or indeed how the incidents were quite rightly investigated and subsequently dealt with.

Stories in the media about the illegal and intrusive use of drones at sporting events or for other nefarious activities are way beyond the scope of a registration and education programme, so lets not go down that rabbit hole either in order to justify what we've been saddled with.

I don't believe that we are trying to "big up" all of this. Clearly, paying a few quid to the CAA and answering some questions in a test of understanding that's impossible to fail is a nuisance but not life changing, or has indeed altered our MO in any significant way............ but therein lies the issue. If it's so easy and has made little difference to us and with no advantages apparent that many of us can fathom, then why was all this red tape put into place at all? My guess is that it simply looks good but is actually of little or no practical benefit to anyone.

We as model flyers have been required to operate sensibly and legally under the ANO for many years past. As far as I'm aware this arrangement worked well and the law has come into play in years gone by when serious (but thankfully very rare) incidents have taken place.

I accept that we are where we are and the law is the law and things could be worse etc etc

 

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Cuban8

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

Quote from cuban8

 

I accept that we are where we are and the law is the law and things could be worse etc etc

 

 

[Cuban8]

OMG.....don't give them any ideas........................always look on the bright side of life.😁

Edited March 1, 2023 by Cuban8

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

.

[Don Fry]

1 hour ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

.

We await your edict, Lord.

[Don Fry]

But on a serious note, the original poster, Clarence Ragland, has us fighting, howling at the moon. 
Life changes, leave life or adapt.

If needed, I can join a squadron of Wot 4’s sweeping up the Champs-Élysées, or Pall Mall, but I don’t think I will be called. 
 

[John Tee]

Peter,

"I also remember having to buy a radio licence and could fly pretty much where I wanted again mostly on my own."

 

When I had to buy my licence I had to stipulate which Post office I was going to fly near (I think 3 mile radius)

 

John

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I lost the will to type Don, all been said many many times.

[Andy Stephenson]

I don't think I even knew I needed a licence back in the 60s, I just went and flew my single channel bang-bang on the common.