toto Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 OK ..... the next victim on the slab is none other than the Phoenix Domino. and a peek in the box ...... My previous assembly the Arising Star is ... to all intent and purposes .... complete ..... bench checked / tested and awaiting a break in the weather for its maiden ...... so .... in order to keep you all rooted on the edge of your seats ....... My next assembly ..... the sequel ..... 😄 Very similar to the Arising Star in terms of general general construction but we are going EP with this model. I don't have the exact details of the power plant that will be going into this yet. I have some Spektrum Avian motor and ESC but think that it could be a bit over the top in terms of spec and price for what the domino is. So to be confirmed. probably running with the same servos as I went with in the Arising Star Savox SC - 0253 's. Again I know these are probably slight overkill for this model but will give me more options as to swapping them out into other models later on if I choose to. The receiver will be a Spektrum AR 620 ... again the same as the Arising Star. the receiver isolator switch will mimic the Arising Star as well with the dual switch / recharging point. Plastic clevises changed out for metal and I may take this opportunity to look at some of the servo linkages etc and change them out where necessary ( Z bend etc which I never used to like ...... I'm liking them now 😀 ). anyway, I'll feed more through as it becomes known and start the assembly at some point soon. I'm considering taking a well deserved break after a solid week with the Arising Star and letting rip on my Flight simulator for a bit. lets see how long I can resist the temptation to get into the box ......😀 Toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 (edited) @totoHave a read of the long thread re electric flight that's in one of your other threads. For this size of model and associated power pack, it's most common to feed power to the receiver from the main power pack via the ESC. You won't necessarily need a switch at all, and the pack will be charged out of the model. you're relying on. GG Edited July 15, 2023 by GrumpyGnome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 15, 2023 Author Share Posted July 15, 2023 I'll go back over this GrumpyGnome ...... meanwhile the plan has changed already .... I have opted for the Hitec HS 311 servos. The guys in my club have been suggesting trying these for ages so I thought I would give them a try in the Domino. Lets see how they do. toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 15, 2023 Author Share Posted July 15, 2023 Well ..... resistance was futile .... Its on the stand ....... and immediately I'd say I have my reservations with this as compared with the Arising Star ...... the finish is not the best .... not to much of an issue but when your first assembly is the Arising Star ..... this is a bit of a disappointment. never mind ..... one we go ..... pretty much an open cockpit with plenty of space for servos etc ..... and the battery compartment. We'll wait and see where the destructions suggest the receiver and ESC have to go. front end looks ok for the housing of the motor etc. I noted there is another wooden plate with stand off's to get the motor forward enough in the model. and the tail end. The destructions look easy enough for this part of the assembly. This is just a little taster of what's to come and as per the Arising Star I'll probably be commencing with the rudder and elevator assembly. So it will be back out with the epoxy. Oh ..... buy the way .... did I tell you that there is no gluing required for this model .....😄 oh yes and I quote " buy today and fly tomorrow ". Can't wait until tomorrow ..... can you? This model has bolt down wings and I am presuming they will be epoxied together as per the Arising Star. The difference being that they do not share one aileron servo ....... no ....they have splashed out here...... or rather ..... I have. so .... thats me for now .... dinner time beckons and its a chinese tonight. Hopefully I may be back later to start on the tail end. Not 100% sure of that yet. thanks for now toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 15, 2023 Author Share Posted July 15, 2023 Just had a quick look at the Elevator and rudder surfaces ( I couldn't help it ) glad to say that the covering is an improvement on the fuselage ..... The rudder which looks ok. Hinges not glued as yet but no big issue there as I have now been through that task on the Arising Star ...... I know no fear ...😄 and the elevator surface ........ looks pretty reasonable . OK .... thats definetely all for now. my stomach has told me that my throat has been slit. cheers for now.... toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 15, 2023 Author Share Posted July 15, 2023 Well, As you can see, I never made it back to the shed tonight. I awarded myself a night off. I should use some time tomorrow in between some domestics and possibly getting to grips with my Real flight simulator again. I'm keen to get this moving. It should be a simpler build than the Arising Star as there is no engine or fuel tank to be messing around with. Just mount the motor, plug it all in ..... and hey presto. Still have the faffing about with the servos but that ( for me ) should get the worst of it out the way. So until tomorrow.........safe wings Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Wolfe Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 15 hours ago, toto said: OK ..... the next victim on the slab is none other than the Phoenix Domino. Just a question about the packaging hyperbole. As you discovered, glue is actually required. It is also described as a 'Scale 1:6 ARF' So just exactly is it a scale model of? No disrespect meant to yourself toto - you didn't design the packaging Chris in Australia 🙃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 (edited) From the manual for the Domino I downloaded from the Phoenix Models website, the only glue needed is CA for the furry hinges on the ailerons, elevators and rudder. Everything else is screwed together. The wings are not glued together. GDB Edited July 16, 2023 by Caveman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 I'm pretty sure that we had a couple of these models (IC) brought to us by new chaps quite a few years ago and that the covering wasn't the very best. A good move to electric with this one to keep it nice and clean - might be an idea to seal the covering joints and decoration on your Arising Star with Clearcote, or whatever equivallent there is about these days, since Solarfilm threw the towel in. Perhaps someone might suggest an alternative - I'm on the last dregs of my ancient tin of Clearcote! Certainly helps the model's covering from becoming tatty too soon because of fuel residue seepage causing the covering to lift as it will certainly do if left unsealed and unprotected from exhaust muck and cleaning fluids. A good going over with a sealing iron to really make sure the covering is well secure and then ten minutes work with a small brush over the joints will save a lot of bother later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Robson Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 48 minutes ago, Caveman said: From the manual for the Domino I downloaded from the Phoenix Models website, the only glue needed is CA for the furry hinges on the ailerons, elevators and rudder. Everything else is screwed together. The wings are not glued together. GDB Looking at the tail end it appears to me that the tail plane and fin would have to be glued on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDB Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 13 minutes ago, Cuban8 said: I'm pretty sure that we had a couple of these models (IC) brought to us by new chaps quite a few years ago and that the covering wasn't the very best. A good move to electric with this one to keep it nice and clean - might be an idea to seal the covering joints and decoration on your Arising Star with Clearcote, or whatever equivallent there is about these days, since Solarfilm threw the towel in. Perhaps someone might suggest an alternative - I'm on the last dregs of my ancient tin of Clearcote! Certainly helps the model's covering from becoming tatty too soon because of fuel residue seepage causing the covering to lift as it will certainly do if left unsealed and unprotected from exhaust muck and cleaning fluids. A good going over with a sealing iron to really make sure the covering is well secure and then ten minutes work with a small brush over the joints will save a lot of bother later. Other club members reported covering lifting issues with Seagulls Boomerang so I used a couple of coats of aerokote over the seams, no lifting yet. https://deluxematerials.co.uk/products/aerokote-gloss 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 (edited) Eric, the manufacturers print a manual which shows exactly how the plane is assembled. The reason they go to the trouble is so that someone buying the ‘kit’ knows how to assemble it rather than guessing or making rash assumptions as to how it goes together. The manual at best is somewhat lacking in explanation of some of the steps and appears to be a copy and paste from other manuals. For instance, the list if tools and glues is enough to put anyone off buying it as a first purchase. Have a read http://phoenixmodel.com/upload2/ManualFiles/Lo_T/PH021-DOMINO-A4.pdf GDB Edited July 16, 2023 by Caveman spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 16, 2023 Author Share Posted July 16, 2023 The tail plane shows the use of CA ........ no way Hose ...... I'll be using epoxy. There would be no room for manouvre with CA . Too risky. Christopher, I agree totally with you ....my thoughts were the same .... a scale rendition of what .... ? And there are a few statements which are just .... pie in the sky. You just have to hope it doesn't fly the same As it is .... I haven't been duped into buying this in the understanding that this was a scale model ...... I know exactly what it is .... A generic trainer model to get you airborne. Looking at it, ( not that I am an authority on the subject by any means ) I think the construction methodology itself is good enough. But .... I dont think I'll be following the instructions to the letter in terms of what is used to glue it together in certain areas. There will be a greater use of epoxy, nand less reliant on CA. That's my first observation. The covering , mainly on the fuselage looks like a patchwork quilt thrown together by a 10 year old. I am tempted to look to see if I could do snythingvwith this and maybe even a bit filling and sanding as it is rough as a rag mans trumpet. It all depends if I'm prepared to slow down the initial assembly or not. It could be done post assembly just to tidy it up a bit ....... I dont know if I'm that fussy for what it is. I'm still faffing around trying yo determine a motor and esc as I am reluctant to put anything to expensive into this carcass. Hence the reason I have settled on less expensive servos in this instance. Any suggestions on something low cost but capable would be appreciated. Cheers everyone for your thoughts. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 16, 2023 Author Share Posted July 16, 2023 Cuban8, I have some clearcote somewhere from my model railway involvement.I'll look it out and cover the joints. Question, can you simply iron on another covering on top of the existing. I would make it a darker colour and solid as opposed to any transparent covering. ..... or ..... do you have to strip the old covering off first? Eric, on first inspection you would say that the tail plane needs to be glued on but, from memory based on a VERY brief flick through the instructions so far, £'m sure there is a srew that goes through the assembly holding it in place ...... I may be incorrect. Never the less, even if there is a screw, I think I would be gluing as well. The only downside of that is ...... if you wrecked the tail plane .... you would not be able to replace it so easy. Maybe that's why it appears to be screwed. I'll come back on that one once I've got my head into the instructions again. Cheers Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Eric Robson said: Looking at the tail end it appears to me that the tail plane and fin would have to be glued on. I would expect them to be fixed in place by the ply tongue visable in th pic of the fin & rudder assembly plus a single screw . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 16, 2023 Author Share Posted July 16, 2023 Hi PatMc That's what was flashing through my mind when I posted the above. I'm sure tyry are also suggesting CA at the joints though. I think that I would rather use epoxy and the screw myself. You dont get the working time with CA and it could make a mess of an already shoddy covering. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 Toto, I wouldn't use any glue if it has a screw. That's my prefered method on most models, it helps with storage at times & often a boon when any maintenance is required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 16, 2023 Author Share Posted July 16, 2023 (edited) Hi PatMc .... Ok, I'll have a look at that as an option. As you say storage would certainly be easier if both the tail and wings came off. I'm wondering if this would necessitate the fastening and fastening of control surface horns etc as well .... not sure I would want to be doing that but let's keep an open mind. Cheers Toto Edited July 16, 2023 by toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 16, 2023 Author Share Posted July 16, 2023 On further inspection ....... Looks like I have a bit of back tracking to do. Ot certainly looks like all the wing and tail sections are free or glue. Apologies Phoenix. So ... in a sense that waters down the idea than the box description is misleading on two fronts. One .... there is possibly no glue required. Secondly the buy today and fly tomorrow claim may be a sight nearer to reality for anyone with a little experience. Certainly the fuselage, wings and tail should be able to be done in around an hour or so. Servos and connections..... say another hour or two attachment of horns ..... another half an hour ..... installation of motor possibly an hour or two depending on how you tackle it. Installation of battery, receiver and esc, half an hour. And the most difficult part in my mind ..... getting all the electrics and servos etc tuned in to each other..... maybe another couple of hours........ very possibly achievable in a day or a day in a bit thanks in part to the absence of waiting for epoxy to dry and setting up an engine with fuel tank etc. It does not take away the fact that the covering isn't so hot though. So ..... some credit returned back to Phoenix. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 (edited) 51 minutes ago, toto said: Hi PatMc .... Ok, I'll have a look at that as an option. As you say storage would certainly be easier if both the tail and wings came off. I'm wondering if this would necessitate the fastening and fastening of control surface horns etc as well .... not sure I would want to be doing that but let's keep an open mind. Cheers Toto With some models I look on the screw fix (would be a good name for a company 😊) method as more of a maintenance aid & occasional long term storage. Any glue would be an unnecessary nuisance. Edited July 16, 2023 by PatMc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 16, 2023 Author Share Posted July 16, 2023 A very good point there Pat. I wasn't convinced at first but when you look at the geometry of how the parts go together and where they are screwed to secure, it actually makes good sense. ..... and as an added bonus makes for easy replacement should your model suffer any hangar crash or bad landing ..... interpret that as .... catastrophic failure This will be a far quicker assembly than the Arising Star ..... or would have been if I had the servos, motor and ESC in stock. However I only say that in order to try and appease the statement made on the box .... buy today .... fly tomorrow. .... I am in no rush but it's still my guess that if next weekends flying conditions are less than favourable ...... I will have another model ready to take to pre maiden set up check. Watch this space. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 16, 2023 Author Share Posted July 16, 2023 OK .... hold on ..... urrrggghhhh ..... ohhhhh... that's better ..... £'ve just put my flak proof jacket on ..... now .... I have touched on the subject of isolation switches on electrics models before somewhere and it seems to be the norm that they are not required. You simply unplugged the battery after flight. ..... fair enough, if you just take reasonable care whilst doing so ..... all should be good. Hold on though ..... you have just landed and in keeping with good practice ...... you approach your model in order to isolate it prior to isolating your transmitter.... right? I think I am right in saying that whilst you undo a hatch or re ove the wings in order to access the battery, ther is still a potential for your prop to " become live " unlikely but possible .... let's say an extremely rare electronic failure of so e sort. Is it really that outlandish that I suggest an isolation switch on the side of your fuselage between the battery and the ESC or a switch between the ESC and receiver. Please keep the assaults to one beating per responder I'm only a wee guy. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Smith 1 Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 Just make sure you are always behind the prop ALL the time, Toto. What I tend to when the plane stops is stand astride the model in front of the tail plane while undoing the hatch (depending were it is), therefore if there is an unintended live prop situation at least the plane won't fly off. By and large I don't have an isolating switch. The power packs are made live plugging in a HV anti spark connector. The RX is powered by a separate battery using the OPTO type of ESC. I will say that is probably only necessary in the larger scale models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Walsh Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 The biggest risk when retrieving an electric model after landing is if you knock the throttle up whilst collecting the model/disconnecting the battery. That's why you should always have a separate kill switch set up to disable the motor regardless of the throttle position. Land, throttle to lowest position engage kill switch, collect model/ disconnect battery. An extra layer of safety is a battery isolation plug in a place with easy access away from the prop but it is another connection with the potential to fail in flight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 16, 2023 Author Share Posted July 16, 2023 Ok chaps, Am I correct in saying that one of the toggles on the transmitter could be set up as the kiil switch? Toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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