Natural progression heading into the winter months

[toto]

So ..... we have nearly busted the backside out of July.

 

My current plans in terms of flying are flagging a bit due mostly to weather ..... in July ...... it's something that we cant control and with the exception of the use of a SIM cant progress no matter what level of com fitment or enthusiasm you have.

 

This has a knock 9n effect to other facets of the hobby that you maybe interested in such as the assembly of your kits as there is no point in rushing too far ahead of yourself building kits of an increased complexity beyond your skills and / or actual time of need. Even to have too many kits that may fall into the " suitable to fly category " doesn't make sense as you are probably just risking the potential for hanger rash as they sit there unemployed in storage.

 

I am co ing to the end of my stash of trainer type assemblies with my next build a Tiger 60 and finally a Phoenix Spacewalker. They will be completed well before winter sets in ..... so what is the natural progression from these ARTF kits that I can amuse myself with over the winter period

 

So far .... I think the next step will be another ARTF but this time with a little more involvement that I know will take a bit longer and start progressively introducing myself to something just a little more difficult.

 

Enter stage left .... the Dancing Wings J3 Cub ( still a reasonably sensible stable type ) or from the same stable..... the Tiger Morh or Sopworth Camel. A bit more to assemble and getting a crack at covering and some simpler balsa fetling etc. I have all the motors, ESC's, servos etc for all of these.

 

what's your thoughts .... I will need something to amuse me and keep me in loved when the weather al, but gives up for the year.

 

Toto

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by toto

[leccyflyer]

Flying weather doesn't really work out like that - as ypu can see, July has been bad and flying opportunities much reduced, but that happens - up here we can get marvellous flying days in September and even November. It's seasonal, but not predictable. You just have to go with the flow and fly whenever you can.

 

By my estimation, you have had less than a dozen actual days on which you've flown and that is the single most important thing, for you to get some stick time in. You are well ahead of the game on the other aspects of the hobby, but you really need to get some flying time in. Number one priority and don;t start thinking the flying is winding down due to a few weeks of bad weather.

[toto]

I'm bound to hit a decent run of consistent weekends at some point.  It's difficult to plan anything at all. The weather can change in no time with no warning.

 

I will get the SIM going again. It may be the only experience I get for now. That will be this weekends night time activity as tomorrow night and Friday will hopefully be getting the Domino over the line. A weekend break from any assembly and hopefully dedicated to actual flying and SIM time.

 

Toto

 

 

[Brian Cooper]

Unfortunately we are at the mercy of the weather.  It is one of the major drawbacks to having a pastime which is mainly conducted outdoors.  

 

Having a dismal, wet-and-windy summer can really put a dent into making progress. 

Then again, we struggled to fly at this time last year because it was too hot to be outside.  

 

British weather.... 🙄

 

[GrumpyGnome]

Agree with the above...... I'll fly all year round. Unless your stick time continues along the current route (hopefully not), you'll probably need to carry out some repairs on the existing planes that will require some work re gluing wood, and covering.

 

Re your plans for winter, sounds like you're looking for an ARTC (Almost ready to cover) offering.  I'm not sure Dancing Wings do those - usually kits, or ARTFs which are covered. I personally wouldn't recommend their kits as a first attempt as the ones I have built are relatively complex, had poor wood and rubbish instructions.

 

(No doubt someone will chip in with a statement that they built one and it was a dream kit...)

 

ARTC offerings seem few and far between, but Century UK do some - e.g. a Riot pro-build.  Quite stable but also quite aerobatic in the right hands.  I have a foam one which I still fly regularly, and a pro-built Ruckus, which seems to have a decent build quality.

 

You could go down the simple kit route..... e.g. a Wot4.  Old design that'd take a little brain scratching.... but there's tons of help available.

 

By the way, I've had a couple of Cubs and although the plan form looks nice and stable, I didn't find them especially easy to fly...

 

Just my opinions, other views will, no doubt, differ. 

[Learner]

As has been said above dont write off flying in the winter months, there can be real nice flying days with frost on the ground or even snow.

A lot depends on the members of your club, one I fly at virtually shuts down and hardly see anyone but the other you cant keep people away no matter the weather.

A proper kit build would not be too much of a challenge depending on what you aimed at and would take a bit more time, Wots always spring to mind as there quite robust and fly well.

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Learner

[toto]

I'll have a look at the Wots but to be honest I'd rather use something I already have. All 3 Dancing Wings kits are already bought and paid for along with the required motors, ESC's and servos.

 

I'm taking account of what's been said above about them not being so great for instructions etc but it may be worth an attempt.

 

They are laser cut with only a certain degree of builder involvement for actual self fabrication. I think the biggest challenge is cutting the aileron section from the main wings ..... and .... making sure the pre-formed laser cut parts are assembled accurately and true. .... I may of course be way of the mark with my assumptions.

 

Toto

[Frank Skilbeck]

Looked at our flying log for the last 12 months, typically in winter say Nov through March we flew about 60% of the time of summer.

 

BTW if you want stick time and have any slopes nearby a slope soarer is a great way of getting stick time, maybe one of Stan Yeos kits http://www.phoenixmp.com/acatalog/Gliders.html

[GrumpyGnome]

Oh, if you have the kits already, then build them - no point in spending more money...

 

The Cub is probably the least challenging build. The Tiger Moth (the larger one?) caused me some head-scratching moments, but there are a couple of good blogs on here to help you.  I suspect the Camel will be most difficult, especially when it comes to balancing and flying.

[Learner]

16 minutes ago, toto said:

I'll have a look at the Wots but to be honest I'd rather use something I already have. All 3 Dancing Wings kits are already bought and paid for along with the required motors, ESC's and servos.

 

I'm taking account of what's been said above about them not being so great for instructions etc but it may be worth an attempt.

 

They are laser cut with only a certain degree of builder involvement for actual self fabrication. I think the biggest challenge is cutting the aileron section from the main wings ..... and .... making sure the pre-formed laser cut parts are assembled accurately and true. .... I may of course be way of the mark with my assumptions.

 

Toto

Should've known you aready had them in stock, you've probably already got all the Wots in there somewhere! 😂.

Probably a good move to keep well stocked now Ripmax is in trouble. There will be plenty of panic buying today!!

[leccyflyer]

2 hours ago, GrumpyGnome said:

Agree with the above...... I'll fly all year round. Unless your stick time continues along the current route (hopefully not), you'll probably need to carry out some repairs on the existing planes that will require some work re gluing wood, and covering.

 

Re your plans for winter, sounds like you're looking for an ARTC (Almost ready to cover) offering.  I'm not sure Dancing Wings do those - usually kits, or ARTFs which are covered. I personally wouldn't recommend their kits as a first attempt as the ones I have built are relatively complex, had poor wood and rubbish instructions.

 

(No doubt someone will chip in with a statement that they built one and it was a dream kit...)

 

ARTC offerings seem few and far between, but Century UK do some - e.g. a Riot pro-build.  Quite stable but also quite aerobatic in the right hands.  I have a foam one which I still fly regularly, and a pro-built Ruckus, which seems to have a decent build quality.

 

You could go down the simple kit route..... e.g. a Wot4.  Old design that'd take a little brain scratching.... but there's tons of help available.

 

By the way, I've had a couple of Cubs and although the plan form looks nice and stable, I didn't find them especially easy to fly...

 

Just my opinions, other views will, no doubt, differ. 

Some very good points there, which I agree with 100%.

 

I also fly all year round. Being in Scotland there is a reduction in flyable days in the winter months proper, but, as I posted, we do still get some marvellous flying days even in the winter - you just need to dress for the elements.  Slope soaring does open up additional flying days and there are local slopes available in the Pentland Hills, and an active slope flying club up at the dry ski slope just outside the Edinburgh outer ring road. It's a totally different skill set to learn, but it's very handy to have as an alternative when the wind blows. Much of the reduction in flyable opportunities is due to the very short days in midwinter here - dark until 10am, dusk at 3pm, doesn;t leave much time in the day - that's offset by 18 hous of daylight in the summer though. That particular Tuesday is braw!

 

The reputation that the Dancing Wings kits have is exactly that - the instructions leave a lot to be desired, but there is always help available her, if Toto follows his pattern of daily build updates, which he is obviously getting much satisfaction out of. They will take significantly longer to put together and finish than the ARTFs completed to date. I agree with Toto that it's better to work with what he has, rather than embark on acquring yet more models, as these may turn out to be something that he doesn;t find interesting, once he gets more flying time in.

 

The Piper Cub is hugely over-represented as a model aeroplane and I'd have to say it doesn't make a very good flyer in my experience, especially for a low hours pilot. I find them quite difficult to fly accurately. I haven't flown any big ones, so I suppose they might be different, but the wee ones that I have flown haven't been great. The exception was my boy's Multiplex Pico Cub that he learned to fly on, which was a marvellous aeroplane. Multiplex know how to make a model aeroplane work though.

[Wookman]

30 minutes ago, Frank Skilbeck said:

Looked at our flying log for the last 12 months, typically in winter say Now through March we flew about 60% of the time of summer.

 

BTW if you want stick time and have any slopes learnt a slope soarer is a great way of getting stick time, maybe one of Stan Yeos kits http://www.phoenixmp.com/acatalog/Gliders.html

Very much agree with the last statement. A slope soarer will get you a lot of stick time and a PMP model is well worth consideration. Not ARTF but a straight forward build with Stan being a huge advocate of KISS. In day's of yore I would go power flying on a Sunday morning 10 'til 1 and then sloping 2 'til 5. I normally managed at least 3 times more stick time gliding. Another thing to remember is that good glider flyers are always good power flyers but the reverse is often not the case.

[Ron Gray]

As has been said above, the DW models are not ideal first builds but if you already have them then why not give the Cub a go. However none of them are good ‘follow on’ models from the flying point of view so expect them to be ‘hangar queens’ for a while. GG mentioned the Ruckus Pro-build (uncovered) that would be more suitable imo.

[Wookman]

5 minutes ago, Wookman said:

Another thing to remember is that good glider flyers are always good power flyers but the reverse is often not the case.

Because they understand that the wing keeps the plane up, not the whirly thing on the front or the wiggly bit on the back.

 

[Brian Cooper]

Cubs are brilliant fun to fly but they are not trainers.

However, they have some very cheeky flying characteristics which will reward an experienced pilot. 

 

Take note, a rudder isn't just for steering them on the ground. . . 🤣 🤣

[Cuban8]

2 hours ago, Learner said:

As has been said above dont write off flying in the winter months, there can be real nice flying days with frost on the ground or even snow.

A lot depends on the members of your club, one I fly at virtually shuts down and hardly see anyone but the other you cant keep people away no matter the weather.

A proper kit build would not be too much of a challenge depending on what you aimed at and would take a bit more time, Wots always spring to mind as there quite robust and fly well.

 

My two clubs are very much like that. However in defence of the club that has a 'closed season' its field is very poorly drained and only after a couple of days of heavy winter rain the ground becomes impossibly drenched and everything, cars, models, people, become covered in mud. Not my idea of fun.

 

As for finding something to keep you occupied during the winter months....................putting another ARTF together will be OK, but very much the same as the previous one you did and the previous one to that - you get my drift.

It's not as though you need to get another model ready ASAP so I would suggest that you go a little off piste and look at having a go at a plan-pack from Sarik. Their range is large and you could pick a straight forward subject that comes with most of the hard work in terms of parts already done for you. Still plenty to give you something to think about though and new skills and techniques to encounter. Peter Miller's designs are excellent for a first attempt and some  of his designs are available with a laser cut parts pack. If not, then simply make your own kit of parts........it's really not difficult providing that you go for a suitable subject, and doesn't take that long if you have the materials and tools to hand and mug up on the techniques for transferring parts from paper into wood. Many ways to skin a cat and plenty of food for thought.

My first proper plan build before the arrival of laser cutting was a Jack Headley Piper Cub back in the mid 80s - if I can make a success of it, then anyone can with a bit of effort. Most importantly, it's so much more rewarding to see a model beginning to appear from nothing before your very eyes, and all mostly due to your own hands. Equally, the first flight will be very rewarding as it'll be mostly all your own work in the air rather than that from a Chinese factory. Not a quick process - although I'm amazed at just how fast some of my club mates can put even a complex model together from a plan alone.

You could look at a traditional kit, but the range these days is quite limited. Just a thought that you might want to consider.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Cuban8

[leccyflyer]

On that last point, I'm on a bit of a vintage fest at the moment, after many years of assembling and flying mostly foamies, ARTFS and electric conversions of models that were previously IC powered. In recent retirement I wanted to scratch an itch of successfully flying the KK Outlaw that I destroyed in a matter of seconds in my first brush with radio control fifty years ago this summer. As a result in the past three weeks I've built and flown my new Outlaw, built from a laser cut short kit and getting back to building from a plan after not having done so for more than twenty years has been marvellous. Truth be told I actually quite enjoy cutting wing ribs out of a pristine sheet of carefully selected balsa, using a ply template, so my laser cutter hasn't yet been used, but the provision of laser cut ribs and especially laser cut ply formers makes the build from a plan  a real pleasure.

 

I picked up a Sarik kit for a vintage plyon racer, Wagtail, recently featured in the mag at the weekend - kindly provided by the PANDAS as a prize in the spot landing competition - and can't wait to get it built, but I'm being disciplined and finishing off a few other things first. I'm impressed by the quality of balsa. It was proper nostalgic cutting and building from scratch in the past month to get the wee Willard Schoolboy built from an Outerzone plan. It's definitiely not helping to make any inroads into the kit mountain, as I now have more projects lined up after a brilliant weekend at the Pontefract retro event.

[toto]

Hi Ron,

 

from what I can see of the Ruckus probuild uncovered, it actually comes built ..... just to be covered.

 

am K reading this correctly or is there a reasonable amount of actual build over and above the covering to be done. 

 

it does look good and I can see them for around £ 170.00

 

cheers

 

toto

[Ron Gray]

There isn’t a lot of building required but as you wanted experience of covering then it is ideal, it also is a very good follow up model.

 

However, if you want a bit more of a build experience then the Galaxy Models range from Pegasus are excellent, very easy to build and fly very well too. Plus they won’t break the bank.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Ron Gray

[toto]

Hi,

 

I visited Sarik hobbies and after a look through their site went for a " Kestrel 56.6" short kit ( set ).

 

I believe that this has everything necessary to complete .... possibly with the exception of some hard wood sections.

 

Looks like that is going to be the winter project then. 

 

This could take some time I think.

 

Toto

[leccyflyer]

Good choice Toto and you have LIndsay Todd as a member of this forum for advice right from the Kestrel's beak, so to speak.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

That'll stretch you a bit more Toto, good choice, Lindsays stuff fly nice and are enjoyable builds.

[Ron Gray]

Yeah, a good choice and will certainly keep you busy! Don’t forget that you need to start making a list of all of the hardware you will need!

[toto]

My advice to Lindsay is ........ start hiding....

 

He has around 4 months or so of relative peace before I let myself loose on this....

 

Normally I would be looking for something a little larger as this comes in at under 1400mm wingspan but I had to try and be sensible and think about my given workspace in the shed. 

 

I like the " ye olde " look of this and the very muted colours suit this vintage well.

 

This could turn out to be my first major disaster ..... but ..... think positive ....

 

Cheers

 

Toto

[toto]

Hi Ron,

 

I misses your post in the cross fire there.

 

Yes I will do. Once I get a bit of time to look further at what comes with the kit, I'll do up a list and post it up. That way folks can comment on what I have missed. I'll do this well ahead of the intended build date to ensure that I can have everything at hand for when I start.

 

Many thanks

 

Toto

Edited July 20, 2023 by toto