CAA Call for Input: Review of UK UAS Regulations Aug 2023

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

On 02/09/2023 at 08:23, Rich Griff said:

Seems to me that all model flying will be banned ( with heavy penalties, re education, yeah right, internment camps ? ) other than at established well regulated, "no fly zones " to full size and "Amazon aviation" unmanned aircraft systems sites.

 

It also seems to me that the caa/government has already made up their minds as to what they are going to do irrespective of "stake holders" opinions.....they have given us beer and bingo, so don't need anything else do we ! ?

 

At least fill in the reply form to the caa document, the subject of this whole thread.

 

Someone said we have 2 1/2 years or so before a big irreversible change happens.

Wow! Rich, there really is no reason to be so negative about the prospects for model flying. It really sounds like you have been got at by the mongers of doom.

 

There are no signs that the CAA are trying to push us out of the skies just ensure we can share it safely. I fully believe that pragmatic solutions will be found that will have the minimum effect on our activities. Especially if we complete consultations in large numbers.

 

Stop listening to the doom mongers who are doing more damage to our sport than anything the CAA can dream up.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

Anyone read this rubbish ?.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-truths/drone-bring-down-jet-emirates-gatwick-airport-ukraine-war/

[leccyflyer]

No, it's behind a paywall.

[Cliff Bastow]

For what its worth I have filed my response. I suspect its another battle we have already lost. We just do not matter to the powers that be.

[Peter Jenkins]

2 hours ago, Cliff Bastow said:

For what its worth I have filed my response. I suspect its another battle we have already lost. We just do not matter to the powers that be.

No need for such a negative approach.  Provided the majority of BMFA members respond the CAA will take our views seriously.

 

The article in the Telegraph is well written and recognises drone enthusiasts, like model aircraft enthusiats, are the lowest risk groups.  It flags up potential terrorists, criminals and those wanting to get into the media as being the main threats.  Sounds fairbto me.

[Bob Burton]

12 minutes ago, Peter Jenkins said:

The article in the Telegraph is well written

What ?

With a headline like that ?

 

Despite the paywall I can see the first paragraph.  Is there any proof of this collision that somebody suspects happened, or could it be another plastic bag like a previous collision between a drone and airliner at Heathrow ?

[Cliff Bastow]

Peter,

I do not think I am being negative, just realistic. The best we can hope for are some concessions arranged by the BMFA but I do not hold out much hope.

Some form of transponders are coming at the very least.

[steve too]

3 hours ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-truths/drone-bring-down-jet-emirates-gatwick-airport-ukraine-war/

 

"The French investigation board BEA confirmed they were looking into this occurrence, but could not yet confirm if a drone was indeed involved."

 

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/344753

 

Given its size Nice-Côte d'Azur Airport should have some sort of UAV detection system, therefore the first question that should be asked is "What did Nice's counter-UAV system show?".

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

No certantity in my mind how this'll all end, pretty sure I'll not live forever though, but dwelling on that seems pointless and self destructive.

Lets take the RID one as a done deal, cost of the thing to fit in your model £80 ? If it comes I would expect price to reduce going forward.

At present ? We spend on new models, kit em all out with their own motors/engines, servos, rx's, esc's, flight battery, then we say £80 is a deal breaker, bizarre.

When I first started the gubbins got swapped between models, "good old days" yer aving a larf.

Ah but my rights and the principal of it ? Well we all lapped up the Amazons of the World, reap what you sow ??

[steve too]

27 minutes ago, Cliff Bastow said:

Some form of transponders are coming at the very least.

 

<pedant>

Remote ID is not a transponder.

</pedant>

[Cuban8]

3 hours ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

Anyone read this rubbish ?.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-truths/drone-bring-down-jet-emirates-gatwick-airport-ukraine-war/

Total and utter garbage. Even if a thin trace of its content were accurate and based on fact rather than speculation - what the hell has it got to do with model aircraft flying? Answer...nothing.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

35 minutes ago, Cuban8 said:

Total and utter garbage. Even if a thin trace of its content were accurate and based on fact rather than speculation - what the hell has it got to do with model aircraft flying? Answer...nothing.

I am glad to see that someone actually read it, as you see its total rubbish, there is a video on the Xjet channel breaking it down, worth watching it Cliff, it might help you understand the article.

[Rich Griff]

So was it a slat failure, bird strike or something else, like an act of God perhaps ?

 

Good job the engine didn't swallow anything, or did it ?

 

Engine must have been ok as the aircraft was successfully flown to Dubai.

 

RR it gec engines in those ?

[Rich Griff]

Ge engines even...

[Cliff Bastow]

John,

£80 might not be much to some John but to some of us on a tight budget its one more cost. Most of my fleet are second or third hand or other modellers cast offs. Still to fit out my fleet would cost about £1200 at £80 Each. A not small amount for me and i suspect many other people.

[Cliff Bastow]

2 hours ago, steve too said:

 

<pedant>

Remote ID is not a transponder.

</pedant>

I did not say it was! 

Its what I think is coming.

[leccyflyer]

4 minutes ago, Cliff Bastow said:

John,

£80 might not be much to some John but to some of us on a tight budget its one more cost. Most of my fleet are second or third hand or other modellers cast offs. Still to fit out my fleet would cost about £1200 at £80 Each. A not small amount for me and i suspect many other people.

Indeed - it gets my goat when I read that "it will only be £50-100 for one of these gizmos to be added to a model", so it's np big deal.. 

[Peter Jenkins]

1 hour ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

I am glad to see that someone actually read it, as you see its total rubbish, there is a video on the Xjet channel breaking it down, worth watching it Cliff, it might help you understand the article.

I did actually read the whole article - twice.  The photo at the beginning of the article shows a multi-rotor drone.  The author quotes from both sides of the argument and there is only one reference to model aircraft:

 

"Drone-users are typically divided into three groups. There are the hobbyists, who, like model-aircraft enthusiasts, are dedicated aficionados who pay keen attention to safety. The only risk they typically pose is a lack of awareness about restrictions around certain areas of airspace. "

 

I would argue about the second sentence but it is clear that there are people who operate model aircraft who may not be completely au fait with the rules or, indeed, choose to ignore the rules.  The rest of the article is written by a journalists with little knowledge of the subject but who has tried to present both sides of the story.  The other two groups of drone users are identified as environmental groups and terrorists.  Given the wide publicity re the use of commercially available drones being modified by "enthusiasts" in Ukraine and being used to deadly effect against the Russians it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that a terrorist organisation might choose to use a drone (fixed wing or multi-rotor) to attack not just an airfield but also other national infrastructure or other high visibility target.

 

Please tell me what is utter rubbish about this article?

Edited September 3, 2023 by Peter Jenkins

[Cuban8]

15 minutes ago, Cliff Bastow said:

John,

£80 might not be much to some John but to some of us on a tight budget its one more cost. Most of my fleet are second or third hand or other modellers cast offs. Still to fit out my fleet would cost about £1200 at £80 Each. A not small amount for me and i suspect many other people.

It's nothing to do with money per se. Even if all this nonsense cost 1p or was free it would still be wrong. And it's not unique. I draw your attention to the other current fiasco masquerading behind falsehoods, misrepresentation and  dodgy data in the outer London Boroughs - not touching that subject though.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Just an example and some context fella's, may never come to pass (I hope). I had to sell models when my car needed work doing, moneys a big deal for me as well.

[colin wray 2]

On 29/08/2023 at 10:07, EarlyBird said:

I started with the DW J3 Cub 1200 wingspan. The idea being, as it's a flat wing, to build on the kitchen table during the cold winter months. I leaned at lot as I found it a very steep learning curve that was not as easy as I first thought. The one lesson I did learn was that every build is practise for the next. Having now got in to double figures I am beginning to know what to expect, but only just.🤣

 

Steve

 

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

1 hour ago, Cliff Bastow said:

John,

£80 might not be much to some John but to some of us on a tight budget its one more cost. Most of my fleet are second or third hand or other modellers cast offs. Still to fit out my fleet would cost about £1200 at £80 Each. A not small amount for me and i suspect many other people.

 

I have 4 models Cliff, 3 second hand at low prices, 1 new, bought 15 years ago, my £80 worth would have to be transfered between models.

[David Elam]

On 01/09/2023 at 18:32, Peter Jenkins said:

Spektrum SkyID is priced at $99 in the USA.  They say it is compatible with any radio brand.  Link.  Weight quoted as 14 g.  Size 18.5 mm x 34.5 mm x 18 mm.

 

 

The other problem is that with many gliders, especially moulded ones, available space in the fuselage is taken up with the receiver, battery and servos. Fitting a SkyID would be impossible.

Another possible problem is the installation of such a device within a carbon fuselage? I can't see any antenna in the image of the Spektrum offering so unless I'm mistaken how could it transmit through CF?

[GrumpyGnome]

The units will undoubtedly get smaller, cheaper, and better as the US (and other areas) starts using them ahead of us.

 

If/when it comes, I'll not rush out and buy one for each aircraft - I'll buy one and swap it. That's what I used to do with my voltage telemetry thingy.  Yes, a pain, but if that's what it takes.......

[leccyflyer]

That's all well and good, but won't it also require access to the power supply, so additional leads etc? Plus possibly taking the model apart to out the device in there. My fleet is set up so that each model is fully geared up, ready to take off the rack, put in the car, fit the battery on the flight line and go - a minority require any rigging at all at the field. That's how I like it.  Faffing about swapping and changing a needless piece of extra equipment, which is of no benefit to me as a model flyer will be an unnecessary annoyance. I like Martin's suggestion earlier - surely it is for these autonomous UAS to be properly equipped so that they can avoid any other flying object that they might encounter in the vanishingly unlikely event such an object should turn out to be a model aeroplane, rather than a bird, bat or uncharted tree. Also as David said some models simply do not have the space available to fit anything else in there - at least one of my gliders has to have the HS55, turned partially on it's side to fit in the fuselage, since space is so tight.