Nigel Heather Posted September 7, 2023 Share Posted September 7, 2023 Fir the same plane, which us lighter, veneered foam or built-up wings. My gut feel says that the foam wings must be a lot heavier but then thinking about it the foam weighs very little and the veneer is possibly less would it total than the built up wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted September 7, 2023 Share Posted September 7, 2023 I think also that built up ones, are lighter 'but' for some highly stressed wings like a fast delta or a big glider foam with a balsa skin would be better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted September 7, 2023 Share Posted September 7, 2023 (edited) Very little in it. Caveat that with "with good quality" for both of them. You could have really heavy wood for built up, or use loads of glue on a foam wing... Edited September 7, 2023 by Nigel R 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heather Posted September 7, 2023 Author Share Posted September 7, 2023 I’m looking at a Wot4 and considering whether to go Classic (kit with veneered foam wings) or ARTF which I assume has built up wings. Can’t compare the weight because it doesn’t appear to be listed for the ARTF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted September 7, 2023 Share Posted September 7, 2023 The kit built one will wind up stronger, but probably not be "heavy". It may be slightly heavier than the artf. disclaimer, I've never owned either. Flown a few, seen a thousand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 10 hours ago, Nigel R said: Very little in it. Caveat that with "with good quality" for both of them. You could have really heavy wood for built up, or use loads of glue on a foam wing... I agree, it may depend on the type and density of the foam, type of wood veneer ( obeche or balsa) glue type and finish (film, glass/epoxy or paint). I have built a couple of models with brown paper/PVA covering reinforced with carbon fibre strips. Very strong, stiff and light but I don’t know how the weight would have compared with a fully built up structure. I would say the build time is comparable too. I think I will definitely build more wings like this in future. I like it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 I Haven't even seen one of them, but as once said, in cars, 'Light is Right'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 My (sadly demised) kit built W4 'felt' bigger and heavier than my current ARTF version. Both excellent fliers ...... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 12 hours ago, Nigel Heather said: I’m looking at a Wot4 and considering whether to go Classic (kit with veneered foam wings) or ARTF which I assume has built up wings. Can’t compare the weight because it doesn’t appear to be listed for the ARTF. I have quite a lot of experience with WOT 4's and they are all good. Having built a couple of mk3 kits in recent years I would hesitate to recommend them now. Both had issues with the wing veneer splitting like crazy 🤪 I suspect a change in supplier or poor quality has crept in 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 Old foam wings used to be very heavy because of the glue used on the veneer. This is less of a problem these days. I like foam wings as they are quick to build, tough, and quite easy to repair. They are also good for deadening vibration and noise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 I guess the foaming glues (gorilla) make all the difference there? 8 hours ago, Piers Bowlan said: I would say the build time is comparable too. With a regular sport model, I found the build time is less for a foam wing, by a few hours. If you're adding a lot of hardware (retracts, etc) that advantage diminishes a bit. These days I don't mind a few hours making wing ribs and cutting some spars. Time aside, using foam wings gives a reasonable guarantee of accuracy, especially for novice builders. Can't overlook that. Way back when, they were also a plus for kit manufacturers. Foam was cheap, veneer was cheap, having a pre-rolled wing made the kit "quick build", of course now ARTF is here nobody cares about "quick build". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eflightray Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 Foam versus built up wings ????? I tend to do built up foam wings Ray 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hazell 1 Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 how do people finish their veneer? I'm putting together a fun fighter at the moment and wondering whether to apply a thinned down coat of lightweight filler just to smooth everything over before I apply the film. Or whether to use sanding sealer of some description just to lift the grain before a final sanding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Robson Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 I've always found film sticks better to bare wood, I sand the veneer smooth and make sure there is no dust on the surface then apply the film . It is not perfect but to go for a perfect surface on a scale model I would not use film. Possibly coating the filler with pva may help adhesion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 I tend to glass cloth mine but they are typically bigger. I know pva and brown paper is popular with paint on top 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Freeman 3 Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 You can just sand the wood well with fine sandpaper and cover as normal, the finish may be not quite as good as balsa due the the more prominent grain. I did read an interesting article on glider wings regarding the efficiency of the wings with no sheeting, D box sheeting and a fully sheeted wing. The article found the fully sheeted wing to be more efficient as the covering maintained the profile of the wing and did not sag between the ribs. I wonder if this was found on the early Hurricanes that had a fabric wing that was later changed to fully skinned wing. Corsairs also had the same evolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 Film covering sticks to the veneer quite well, but whether it will stick to the wing bandage - fibreglass or whatever - is perhaps the question. Avoiding wing bandages is one of the advantages of builtup wings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 Join your wings with pva and glass. Film can be made to stick to that pretty well. The pva softens with heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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