CAA Registration

[MattyB]

1 hour ago, MaxG said:

I notice that the flyer ID and the Operator ID have different valid to dates.

No surprise there that always has been the case, op ID is the one that carries  an annual fee so it will remain 12 months I am sure, Flyer IDs last 5 years from memory

Edited October 25 by MattyB

[RottenRow]

Just for the record, my e-mail from Andy arrived this lunchtime, explaining the issue of the Flyer ID.

 

Thanks Andy for resending these.
 

Brian.

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

14 minutes ago, RottenRow said:

Just for the record, my e-mail from Andy arrived this lunchtime, explaining the issue of the Flyer ID.

 

Thanks Andy for resending these.
 

Brian.

Will be sending an email about Flyer ID's to all members later too, hopefully to clear up the confusion about what they are, the differences between Flyer ID and Operator ID and who needs them.

[Geoff S]

18 minutes ago, Andy Symons - BMFA said:

Will be sending an email about Flyer ID's to all members later too, hopefully to clear up the confusion about what they are, the differences between Flyer ID and Operator ID and who needs them.

 

Thanks Andy.  However I don't think anyone actually 'needs' either of them but it's what we're required to have in order to fly legally.  It does seem over-complicated but it is what it is is probably better through the efforts of the BMFA than it might have been otherwise.

[Mike T]

So in a nutshell:

If your OP ID was 'grandfathered' via an A or B, then you don't need to do anything (except keep a copy of any CAA notification for reference)

If you did the CAA's DMARES test, then you need to fill in the form linked in Andy's email, so the BMFA can log your Flyer ID info.

Edited October 25 by Mike T

[steve too]

34 minutes ago, Mike T said:

If your OP ID was 'grandfathered' via an A or B

 

Operator IDs are not grandfathered.

[steve too]

23 hours ago, MattyB said:

It’s good for Bmfa  members that they do take that view I suppose but unfortunately I’ve seen a fair bit of evidence that often those leveraging the A or B exemption from the Flyer ID test either don’t understand the current regs despite the BMFA’s efforts, or are so disgruntled at the changes of the last few years they wilfully don’t want to comply. 

 

Indeed. The wilful ignorance on the part of some traditional flyers is not a good advert for the hobby.

[Mike T]

9 hours ago, steve too said:

 

Operator IDs are not grandfathered.

Mine was...

 

9 hours ago, steve too said:

 

Indeed. The wilful ignorance on the part of some traditional flyers is not a good advert for the hobby.

What/who are 'traditional' flyers?

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

51 minutes ago, Mike T said:

Mine was...

No it wasn't. You are confusing Op ID and Flyer ID.

[Jonathan W]

Well I'm signed up for email notifications from BMFA, but never receive anything all year apart from the annual membership renewal reminders. So I'm in the dark on all this stuff!

[steve too]

6 hours ago, Mike T said:

Mine was...

 

No sign of grandfathering in the BMFA's article 16 section 3.5.

 

 

There is however some grandfathering in 3.12.

 

 

Note 3.12 (2).

 

[Cuban8]

6 hours ago, Jonathan W said:

Well I'm signed up for email notifications from BMFA, but never receive anything all year apart from the annual membership renewal reminders. So I'm in the dark on all this stuff!

As are, I suspect, the majority  of model flyers who just pay their money, tick the boxes and get on with it. Ask around at your club and wait for the blank expressions. It really beggars belief that all of this nonsense is still able to draw breath. If it actually did any practical good, other than raising a lot of cash for the CAA then I might be able to accept it - a bit like being told as a kid that you couldn't do something and when asking why - only to be told "because".

I do take my hat off to Andy S. who fields the problems and the  BMFA in general for their dealings with the bureaucrats at the CAA and have made the best of a mad situation.

Edited October 26 by Cuban8

[RottenRow]

Andy’s second e-mail has just dropped into my inbox. This is the one that he mentioned a little earlier, explaining the difference between Operator and Flier IDs and explaining the requirement for Flier IDs now.

 

Interestingly, he makes no mention of the so-called grandfather rights (using an A or B certificate, and ticking the box on the portal) as a demonstration of competence. Perhaps this option is being removed for the coming year or the next Article 16 exemption.

 

I believe the use of As and Bs as proof of competence was initially only meant to be temporary… six months initially, then extended to a year… before apparently becoming permanent. It does confuse things to a degree; my club has members who, whilst being quite capable of passing the RCC test, won’t do so as they have old As which cover them.

 

I agree with those who say that the CAA registration scheme is pointless, a sledgehammer to crack a walnut, etc. but as C8 says in the posting above, the BMFA have, through negotiation, got it down to a minimal inconvenience for those of us that fly model aircraft.

 

Brian.

[John Lee]

31 minutes ago, RottenRow said:

Interestingly, he makes no mention of the so-called grandfather rights (using an A or B certificate, and ticking the box on the portal) as a demonstration of competence. Perhaps this option is being removed for the coming year or the next Article 16 exemption.

 

 

He does in my email:

 

"We have already emailed members that hold a valid  BMFA Registration Competency Certificate (RCC), or  a BMFA A or B Certificate passed before 31/12/2020 and started issuing Flyer ID’s to them. The process should be completed by 01/11/2024."

[RottenRow]

10 minutes ago, John Lee said:

He does in my email:

 

Yes he does, but only for those members who already hold CAA registration and have Operator IDs.

 

Further down, Andy describes how anyone who isn't currently registered with the CAA should proceed (my italics):

 

Any BMFA member who wants to fly a model aircraft or drone outdoors with a take off mass of 250gm or above, or that has a camera attached must pass either the BMFA Registration Competency Certificate (RCC) or the CAA Drone and Model Aircraft Registration and Education Scheme (DMARES) online theory test to demonstrate they are aware of the regulations to fly model aircraft and drones. Both the BMFA RCC and CAA DMARES test have forty multiple choice questions and the pass mark is 30. Once either the BMFA RCC or CAA DMARES test has been passed, remote pilots will receive a flyer ID from the CAA, which acts as proof of competency as a remote pilot from the CAA. There is no minimum age requirement, however children under the age of 13 can only obtain a Flyer ID with consent from a parent or guardian.

 

Your Flyer ID is valid for five years and it is free of charge to obtain.

 

If you are required to have a Flyer ID and do not as yet have one you can take the BMFA RCC test at https://rcc.bmfa.uk/rcc. You should ensure you read and understand the information at https://rcc.bmfa.uk/article-16 before taking the test. Once you pass the test you must upload the certificate to your Member Profile on the BMFA JustGo portal at https://bmfa.justgo.com/ . By uploading the certificate, you give the BMFA Consent to obtain a Flyer ID on your behalf.

 

No mention of using As and Bs as proof there.

 

Brian.

[John Lee]

I don't see the problem. 

 

Andy's post from last Thursday at 16:41 said:

 

"I sent an email out to all those that meet the CAA competency requirements by holding either an A or B cert from before the cutoff date or through having passed the BMFA RCC on Monday. Informing them they will soon be issued with a Flyer ID."

 

and that email said:

 

"It is now a requirement that all BMFA Members who are meeting the CAA requirements for competency using either a BMFA A or B Certificate issued before 31/12/2020, or hold a valid BMFA Registration Competency Certificate (RCC) are issued with a CAA Flyer ID.

We have already started the procedure to issue a CAA Flyer ID to those members who meet the above requirements."

 

to me it is quite clear the grandfathering still stands and A, B & RCC holders should get their CAA Flyer ID next week without needing to do anything else.

[Cuban8]

How is it that one can quite legally use an electrical assisted pedal cycle (max 15mph)  on the highway or in public spaces with  regular pushbikes and  without any form of insurance, licence, test or registration? Basically you can do as you like on them.

Fly a model aircraft or drone and then the bureaucrats are after you with their regs and charges and cartoons of a  policeman feeling a flyers collar. How the hell can that be equitable? I'd like to hear why we are put through all the hoops and yet another group who are clearly more likely to cause injury and damage are ignored. 

Moreover, the use of fully motorised pushbikes is ignored. I followed a food delivery chap in my car this morning after he rode (drove) off the pavement and in front of me on one of these fully powered push bikes. No helmet, no ID except for the delivery company name. 

He kept up a comfortable 30mph in front of me under motor power alone with no pedalling, until swerving up a dropped kerb across the pavement and disappeared down an alleyway to a block of apartments. All in contravention of the law and nobody gives a fig.

 

[payneib]

And then there's several forms of entirely unrestricted, unregulated manned flight to contend with. This 80+kg man spent most of a day flying directly over "uninvolved persons" whilst we were at the beach this summer. Do that with a 249g camera drone and you're not the Messiah, you're a very naughty boy. 

[Geoff S]

31 minutes ago, Cuban8 said:

How is it that one can quite legally use an electrical assisted pedal cycle (max 15mph)  on the highway or in public spaces with  regular pushbikes and  without any form of insurance, licence, test or registration? Basically you can do as you like on them.

Fly a model aircraft or drone and then the bureaucrats are after you with their regs and charges and cartoons of a  policeman feeling a flyers collar. How the hell can that be equitable? I'd like to hear why we are put through all the hoops and yet another group who are clearly more likely to cause injury and damage are ignored. 

Moreover, the use of fully motorised pushbikes is ignored. I followed a food delivery chap in my car this morning after he rode (drove) off the pavement and in front of me on one of these fully powered push bikes. No helmet, no ID except for the delivery company name. 

He kept up a comfortable 30mph in front of me under motor power alone with no pedalling, until swerving up a dropped kerb across the pavement and disappeared down an alleyway to a block of apartments. All in contravention of the law and nobody gives a fig.

 

 

Well, no-one stopped me from riding my unmotorised pedal cycle to work (and elsewhere) daily a lot faster than 15 mph and, for years, with no helmet (the helmet came later).  I certainly agree that illegal electrically powered pedal cycles (and scooters perhaps more so) should be more rigorously controlled, however.  I always hoped to see a Sinclair C5 when I was riding my 1956 Higgins racing trike so I could pass it but it never happened, unfortunately 🙂

 

The police have a lot to do and arresting either us flying models without an operator ID, or illegal electric assisted pedal cycles isn't a priority.  Except, of course, if there's an accident.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Bloke near us plays loud music everytime it's a nice day (not very often).

[Jonathan W]

Today, I did finally receive said email from BMFA, having successfully fished it out from my junk folder 😛

 

You got to appreciate the patience of somebody composing that explanation with so many IF THEN ELSE AND OR parameters involved!!

 

So when I have received my Flyer ID, what do I do with it - have it tattooed on my forehead?

[Cuban8]

1 hour ago, Jonathan W said:

Today, I did finally receive said email from BMFA, having successfully fished it out from my junk folder 😛

 

You got to appreciate the patience of somebody composing that explanation with so many IF THEN ELSE AND OR parameters involved!!

 

So when I have received my Flyer ID, what do I do with it - have it tattooed on my forehead?

Stick a note of it in your car/wallet/phone notepad and then forget it......until your local police raid your field or flying site and say in a comedy German accent "your papers, please".

[Jonathan W]

42 minutes ago, Cuban8 said:

"your papers, please".

Yawohl!

[Don Fry]

I know my 13 letter tax identifier number. Think of it as anti dementia training. 

3 hours ago, Geoff S said:

 

Well, no-one stopped me from riding my unmotorised pedal cycle to work (and elsewhere) daily a lot faster than 15 mph and, for years, with no helmet (the helmet came later).  I certainly agree that illegal electrically powered pedal cycles (and scooters perhaps more so) should be more rigorously controlled, however.  I always hoped to see a Sinclair C5 when I was riding my 1956 Higgins racing trike so I could pass it but it never happened, unfortunately 🙂

 

The police have a lot to do and arresting either us flying models without an operator ID, or illegal electric assisted pedal cycles isn't a priority.  Except, of course, if there's an accident.

That’s about right, the CAA investigators are mostly engineers. Get a small aircraft accident, they get plod in. CAA are weak in chain of evidence. So  crime scene investigator plod (who just happen to have van loads of stuff they CAA want to nick.) get shifted in, to sort the chain of evidence job out. Between the two, they do a nice pair of grinding mills. Avoid entry into the gap therein.

[payneib]

1 hour ago, Cuban8 said:

Stick a note of it in your car/wallet/phone notepad and then forget it......until your local police raid your field or flying site and say in a comedy German accent "your papers, please".

If you have a BMFA "e membership card" in the "wallet" on your phone, it's actually displayed in there.