BMFA budget

[Cuban8]

14 hours ago, Ron Gray said:

Strange I thought that Buckminster was supposed to be self funding and not paid for by the membership.

My thinking behind the further  commercialisation of the site moving it away from the ordinary members is worth considering. Is that such a problem if it provides an ammenity for events and comps that are struggling to find venues at this time and at a realistic cost.  Running it on a few season tickets or turn up and fly for a tenner or whatever it is can't possibly sustain such a large site.

 

 

[RottenRow]

7 minutes ago, Cuban8 said:

Running it on a few season tickets or turn up and fly for a tenner or whatever it is can't possibly sustain such a large site.

That was never the sole intention surely?

If it was then the day rate and season ticket prices have been set much too low from the outset.

 

I understood that it was always planned as being the venue for model flying related events (as it is) and the casual flying was more of a sideline.

 

Brian.

 

[Frank Day]

16 hours ago, Ron Gray said:

So do it Frank!

I've suggested it a couple of times but im just a pawn.  Due to commitments - work, I go fairly infrequently.  Core group has been there since the models were horse drawn and what they want  generally goes. (noisy youngsters with 4x4 rc trucks.) Upstarts with dangerous ideas tend to leave after a while. Longer term members just want to go there talk and have a few flights. If this is how most clubs are you can understand the decline. Also general leisure trends change, most of us had to make it if you wanted more than a dinky toy or Scalextrics, younguns now don't seem to have any practical ability.

 

I'm also emigrating early next year to a country where its a little more relaxed. Quite a few of the guys I have spoken to also dabble in boats and cars.

[Erfolg]

I have not as yet printed out the Accounts. From previous experience of examining the accounts, some of the entries although 100% have been numerically accurate, where they have been placed in the accounts, were potentially contentious, as to where allocated. Detail and challenge are necessary.

 

The fall in membership is a clearly established trend, for the near future. The BMFA has endeavoured to broaden its membership pool, from Model Hot Air/ Gas Balloons and more recently Quad types. Many in our movement have tried very hard, particularly with respect to young modellers. The numbers continue to decline.

 

I personally believe a detailed 5 year plan to manage the future issues, together with the alternative choices is necessary. It is obvious that the organisation is facing challenges, many at present not apparent. A historic problem has been that those who identified near time  issues have to often been portrayed as being anti BMFA or just scaremongering. The future for the BMFA could be a very small organisation, perhaps as small as I imagine the BCU (British Canoe Organisation), although this is not necessarily the destination.

 

As for membership fees, it is a difficult subject, you cannot decided that a £400 fee from the current membership would solve the immediate problems, the result could be even less members. Nor would reducing fees by half gain any significant members. An Elephant In the Room, are fees such as CAA. For the majority of clubs, fees are necessary for them to exist, although some hold there own land, others peppercorn sums, yet others thousands over a short periods.

 

The concept of a NFC should not be sacrosanct. IMO it is the BMFA that is what members pay for, that is insurance and representation 

 

 

 

 

[Ron Gray]

7 hours ago, Cuban8 said:

My thinking behind the further  commercialisation of the site moving it away from the ordinary members is worth considering. Is that such a problem if it provides an ammenity for events and comps that are struggling to find venues at this time and at a realistic cost.  Running it on a few season tickets or turn up and fly for a tenner or whatever it is can't possibly sustain such a large site.

 

 

The Centre is in a position where all weekends through the main flying season are booked for events of one sort or another, not a bad position to be in. Where you get the idea that it is run on a few season tickets I don’t know but I suggest that you read it’s latest blog to get a better idea about what is happening there.

[Ron Gray]

59 minutes ago, Erfolg said:

The concept of a NFC should not be sacrosanct. IMO it is the BMFA that is what members pay for, that is insurance and representation

It was the membership who voted in favour of the NFC.

[steve too]

6 minutes ago, Ron Gray said:

It was the membership who voted in favour of the NFC.

 

As I recall, individual members did not get to vote.

[steve too]

21 hours ago, kevin b said:

Particularly for the insurance cover. Just look at general insurance costs for other things that aren't as potentialy life threatening.

 

The various insurance policies cost the BMFA < 40% of the fees.

 

21 hours ago, kevin b said:

With regards to cost cutting. Rather than moan about it, why not contact the BMFA with helpful suggestions (or even non helpful ones). Instead of just being an armchair critic.

 

The BMFA do not take input from the average member. People were complaining about the cost of the BMFA News and asking why I wasn't online for at least a decade on various forums before the BMFA decided that £160k/year was a bit much to spend on it.

[Ron Gray]

8 minutes ago, steve too said:

 

As I recall, individual members did not get to vote.

You did, through your club.

[Ron Gray]

6 minutes ago, steve too said:

The BMFA do not take input from the average member.

That’s whey there are area reps in each club and area meetings. Voice your views / ideas to your rep who should then raise it at the next area meeting. Those views will then get passed on to central BMFA. 

[steve too]

4 minutes ago, Ron Gray said:

You did, through your club.

 

Club delegates voting at an EGM is not the same as members voting.

[kevin b]

21 minutes ago, steve too said:

 

Club delegates voting at an EGM is not the same as members voting.

 

????????????????????????????????    !

[Ron Gray]

I think that Steve is referring to Proportional Representation. 

[steve too]

30 minutes ago, kevin b said:

 

????????????????????????????????    !

 

Is one member, one vote as opposed to block votes by club delegates too difficult for you?

[Rich Griff]

Yes one member one vote, with at least 70 percent of bmfa members voting, to make it meaningfull.

 

Email means can be utilised to ask for, and cast, your vote.

 

No stamps etc. Involved at all.

 

As long as the voting system will work on real computers, AND mobile phones.....

Edited November 3 by Rich Griff

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Steve has a good point.  The voting system gives the representative the option to follow their own opinion or, if opinion differs, represent the majority view or their own with the entire block vote of their members.  
 

For the legendary EGM, I canvassed opinion from our membership and the majority aligned with my personal viewpoint , but it still meant that all our votes were cast one way.

 

Opinions were quite strong either way, so if there had been other clubs in a different position with representatives having opposing views, who knows how the vote might have gone?

 

I’m a little disappointed that nothing came of the chairman’s statement during that meeting that he was concerned about the lack of representation for country members and intended to make changes.  Sadly, he passed away before anything happened and things have gone very quiet in that direction. 
 

BUT - if we were to attain the holy grail of one man one vote… how many would actually take part?  I seem to recall that response was pathetic on the one occasion that such an exercise took place. 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Rich - current events in a large technologically advanced democracy suggest that even in a state run election, remote voting technologies are open to challenge and potential abuse!  Would results be accepted by disgruntled members any more readily than with the current system - however flawed it may appear?

[Rich Griff]

Then educate members as to what is being voted on, but yes, you can only lead a horse to water.

 

A block vote, with at least 80 percent of that *block* casting a vote to make it meaningfull, which ever way they vote.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

£2 rise proposed and off we go. 😉

NFC vote is done, It's built and running.

[Peter Jenkins]

40 minutes ago, Rich Griff said:

Then educate members as to what is being voted on, but yes, you can only lead a horse to water.

 

A block vote, with at least 80 percent of that *block* casting a vote to make it meaningfull, which ever way they vote.

The majority of Club members don't give a hoot about the BMFA.  Why would they even consider reading stuff sent out to them to inform them of the vote they are being encouraged to make?  

 

As for Country Members, most are members of at least one Club.  The number who are truly flying on their own is quite small therefore.

 

The original reason that Clubs are the members of the BMFA, or SMAE as still is, is that in 1922 most folk didn't even have telephones.  That was why Areas were introduced so that the administration was decentralised.  In my Area we were lucky to get more than 5 attendees who were not Area Committee Members.  That's how much interest there was from the Area Clubs.

 

If you want at least 80% of the block casting a vote then nothing will get passed and the BMFA as we know it will die.  Why?  Would you volunteer to be a BMFA Council member when you have no power to make anything happen? 

[Rich Griff]

So most bmfa members are morons then, not being interested in model flying behind the scenes.....what's needed to make there selfish Sunday afternoon flying hobby, sorry, sport,  happen ?

 

Going by some comments about how many members actually cut the grass, do a litter pick etc. etc. etc....then I suppose they are.

 

We're doomed then....role over and die.....or come up with some way of improving the situation, a meaningfull inclusive  vote perhaps....

 

I do not know what the answer is, perhaps more interaction with the young, schools etc..

 

Xmas is coming. Thinking very hard about the article in bmfa news, simple cheap f15 chuck glider, b and q materials, a plan and instructions, donated to the school, free, .......I know they have kids proof stab proof scissors and magic markers.....

 

Hopefully kids will love it. Also cheap foam seagulls that glide etc. Etc. Etc.

 

Just might get permission to do indoor flying in the school hall. Pointless asking the community  hall commitee, staff would actually have to get off thier backsides and do some actual work, other than drinking tea with heating on full blast, at the communities expense. Close shop committee run, upset one, upset half the village.....

 

Back to bmfa stuff

 

Vote or let it die.....

 

I will always have flying models of some sort in my hand/life, bmfa or no bmfa......better with a bmfa god willing.

 

Bounce ideas about guys.....

Edited November 3 by Rich Griff
Spelling

[Ron Gray]

1 hour ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

NFC vote is done, It's built and running.

And what a great place it is.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I think big financial ventures need the nod from the membership, so did the BMFA.

As Martin Harris says above, I'm also disappointed the Country member vote issue seems to be on the back burner.

I reckon most members do give a hoot about the BMFA, It may be that once elected, they trust the powers that be to do their best.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

1 minute ago, Ron Gray said:

And what a great place it is.

 

Yes, and It's great when we see threads of folk enjoying the place.

[leccyflyer]

1 hour ago, Rich Griff said:

So most bmfa members are morons then, not being interested in model flying behind the scenes.....what's needed to make there selfish Sunday afternoon flying hobby, sorry, sport,  happen ?

 

Going by some comments about how many members actually cut the grass, do a litter pick etc. etc. etc....then I suppose they are.

 

We're doomed then....role over and die.....or come up with some way of improving the situation, a meaningfull inclusive  vote perhaps....

 

I do not know what the answer is, perhaps more interaction with the young, schools etc..

 

Xmas is coming. Thinking very hard about the article in bmfa news, simple cheap f15 chuck glider, b and q materials, a plan and instructions, donated to the school, free, .......I know they have kids proof stab proof scissors and magic markers.....

 

Hopefully kids will love it. Also cheap foam seagulls that glide etc. Etc. Etc.

 

Just might get permission to do indoor flying in the school hall. Pointless asking the community  hall commitee, staff would actually have to get off thier backsides and do some actual work, other than drinking tea with heating on full blast, at the communities expense. Close shop committee run, upset one, upset half the village.....

 

Back to bmfa stuff

 

Vote or let it die.....

 

I will always have flying models of some sort in my hand/life, bmfa or no bmfa......better with a bmfa god willing.

 

Bounce ideas about guys.....

Do you ever actually get out and fly a model?

 

If so, what do you fly? Do you fly at a club? Do you fly solo on a local slope?

 

Have you ever actually done any of what you are proposing above - such as obtained access to an indoor (or outdoor) space and encouraged youngsters to have a go?

 

The reason I ask is that you frequently post stuff like this, often with a rather strange sub-text, such as the strange observations about community issues,  but you never actually post about you actually flying any models.