Myron Beaumont Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Recently the Suffolk latch on the back door snapped so I went to Howdens to get another. No problem, nice black coated Suffolk latch except that no screws were provided with it. It needed 12 screws. Have plenty of screws but it would look better if these were black. Asked if these should have been included and was told towdens no longer provide screws with a lot of their items on the grounds of H&S because, for instance, someone might fix the latch with one inch screws in a door that was only half an inch thick, thereby risking injury and possible impalement on the other side of the door! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Words fail me! I tried to think of something to say butcame up with nothing that the moderators would allow. But thinking about it, our education system does not teach people to think for them selves. we are breeding a race of cretins. I say scrap health and safety. As the idiots eliminated themselves the intelligence quotient of the country will slowly rise and the unemployment situation will improve because A) the morons have killed themselves and B) those who survive will be far more employable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon B Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Sorry, but that sounds like someone in the shop/supplier talking nonsense. I've bought endless hinges and the like with screws included. I suspect cost cutting and using people's blown up fears about H&S as a smokescreen. Edited By Simon B on 20/01/2013 18:58:44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the unmagnificent man Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Pete Miller..... Here here! Myron...... Health and safety and the PC Squad are all in it together, I heard about a woman who got done because she kept getting her house broken into by burglers who climbed over her back yard wall and she put broken glass on the wall. If they get cut because they tried to climb over her wall to burgle her house then hard luck to them, they shouldn't be there in the first place.........OOPS I almost went off on one. La la la..... I had a lovely day today fiddling in my garage with my planes........Until I caught my arm on a long screw on the door on the way out ha ha ha...... UMM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 IMO Martin has it spot on. TUM, the broken glass on top of walls has nothing to do with H&S legislation, I suspect the story is apocryphal. The legislation to stop that practice goes back a long way & was more to do with children suffering injury retrieving footballs etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 THIS is excellent example of a complete disregard of H & S . Excellent commentary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 And the list is because the heads are on that side of the ship and everyone was trying to get in at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouncebounce crunch Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 That is ridiculous "this doesn't come with screws Sir, in case you hurt yourself when fitting, now in aisle five you can get your circular saw and blades for your stanley knife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Randall Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Bet he could sell some seperately packaged though. As with lots of things that are leveled against health and safety, its realy fear of litigation that is the reason, and it's the fault of the courts who have taken common sense away and have allows people who do the stupidist things to be rewarded for it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 It's not the fault of the courts at all. It's the fault of the press for peddling a load of half truths in order to sell newspapers & the fault of the people who believe who unconditionaly believe the stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Elliott Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I think it is a way they can say we are keeping the price the same.... However in reality the price has increased the cost of screws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avtur Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Posted by Alan Randall on 20/01/201 As with lots of things that are leveled against health and safety, its realy fear of litigation that is the reason, and it's the fault of the courts who have taken common sense away and have allows people who do the stupidist things to be rewarded for it.. Spot on .... there is no health and safety law about the length of screws ... it's a farce ... The chief executive of the HSE is on a campaign to put some of this rubbish in its place, it's all about a) people not being prepared to use common sense and b) accepting personal repsonsibility for the decisions they make. There are too many businesses making ridiculous decisions like this and its turning us into a nation of wimps ... it also gets H&S a bad name. There is a need for H&S to be done sensibly, in the right measure, in the right place and at the right time; but this sort of example gets H&S a poor reputation. Edited By avtur on 20/01/2013 21:32:57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myron Beaumont Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Read all of this with interest, and thought I would add a few examples of legislation taken to extremes as it affects farmers and smallholders. From 1 January 2013 it became illegal to kill an animal without a certificate of competence and there are no exemptions. Obviously intended to prevent the illegal slaughter of animals for meat and contamination of the food chain, Very sensible. But the way the legislation is worded anyone who keeps a few chucks, including me, can no longer kill a surplus cockerel for Sunday dinner without a certificate of competence. And I dread to think how one gets such a certificate - do you have to practice on live animals till you get it right? Probably a written exam. On the subject of written exams, one of my farmer friends , now 83, has worked with sheep all his life. When new legislation was passed to tighten up on the use of sheep dips he went for an exam to allow him to handle dip and failed his written test by one point, even though he had been dipping sheep all his life. And this is fear of litigation against the manufacturers of the pesticide. Of course dip can be nasty stuff and of course it should be handled sensibly, but if people fall into their own dip tubs or fail to wear protective clothing that is their own look out. Electronic identification of sheep and goats is another sore point. The reason, or one of the reasons, for EIDs is to prevent animals from illegally entering the food chain. In view of the widespread rustling of sheep it is a good idea, although of course ID tags can be removed. However there are no exceptions for animals not leaving the farm, so, for instance, if I keep some female lambs as replacements they must be double tagged at 6 months. OK, I go along with that, reluctantly. But the same applies to goats, and the goatkeeping community is up in arms about it. So even if the goats are purely a hobby and are never intended for sale they must be tagged at 6 months. This causes pain and distress, and risks torn ears and infection. I have a couple of Boer kids, now 9 months old, with long silky ears and there is no way I am going to tag them. There would be ripped ears within a week. Returning to the subject of chickens, it is illegal to feed kitchen scraps to poultry. Again this was designed to prevent waste from commercial hotel and restaurant kitchens entering the food chain but in practice it means that anyone with a few back yard chucks cannot feed leftover bread etc to their hens. These are all examples of perfectly sensible legislation taken to extremes with no de minimis. Mron's partner, Chrissy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'm with PM on this - let natural selection sort out health and safety! Chrissy - what regulations like that actually do is make law abiding citizens break the law - who's going to see what you do in your own backyard at 6am? - of course you're going to feed the chucks left overs - and that then starts to instill a growing disregard for other petty laws until the day comes when you break a law without thinking in front of witnesses and the plod come banging on your door at silly am to drag you down to the cop shop to explain yourself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowerman Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Too many people take H&S guidelines as rules. Sadly there is no University in the world that does degrees in common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Chrissy AFAICS all the examples you give are DEFRA regulations some of which will have been arrived at with advice from HSE. F&M, swine fever, scrapie, CJD, salmonela in eggs, E-coli etc are all examples of why these regulations exist & should be rigorously applied. It isn't the people who cause the spread of these diseases who are being protected it's the people who suffer the consequences of them when they spread, often with devastating results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly P Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 H&S - no, in this case the justification will be profit. IKEA do not supply wall fixings with any of there funiture - they state that as they do not know the type of wall you are fastening too, then they cannot know the correct fixing to supply. They do sell a range for you to make your own choice. They do not quote H&S, or liability, but a simple common sense reason. and one I agree with. Olly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Of course the ironmongers salesman may have figured that anyone hamfisted enough to break a suffolk latch might not be the best person to work out whether the screws were the correct length! At first Peter Millers idea that the morons will eliminate themselves seems attractive, but the reality is the morons seem lucky enough to survive. Watch the Worlds Craziest Fools on TV to verify that. It's the innocent who seem to suffer such as the chap walking to work who has a helicopter fall on him. You would think after the 9 /11 World Trade Centre episode that they would stop building any more exceptionally tall buildings, but no....... Who was it that used to write the Safety First column for RCME? Edited By kc on 21/01/2013 12:10:59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myron Beaumont Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Chrissy AFAICS all the examples you give are DEFRA regulations some of which will have been arrived at with advice from HSE. F&M, swine fever, scrapie, CJD, salmonela in eggs, E-coli etc are all examples of why these regulations exist & should be rigorously applied. It isn't the people who cause the spread of these diseases who are being protected it's the people who suffer the consequences of them when they spread, often with devastating results. PatMc Yes, I know that but you are missing the point. I am talking about instances where the animal or egg is not intended for anything but private cconsumption or no consumption at all - in other words will not enter the commercial food chain. I agree with and follow the legislation very carefully with regards to keeping movement records, animal health and medicine records and EID for my commercial flock. But the regulations are not rigourously applied. People who want to ignore or bypass the Defra regulations will do so anyway if they can get away with it. I was referring to instances where animals are kept either as a hobby or as pets. Anyway, I shan't be tagging the Boer twins anytime soon. But as a contra to this, take the current wave of outbreaks of Scmallenburg virus (SBV) which causes foetal abnormalities and deaths in cattle, sheep and goats. it is not a notifiable disease on the basis that it cannot affect humans and is beleived to leave the flock or herd in a fairly short time. My view on that is that it should be notifiable to help with an understanding of the epidemiology of the virus. Certainly not to penalise the afflicted farm but simply to monitor the spread and incidence of the disease. Consequently I do not think that best practice and food safety regulations are always aligned. By the way, did not break the Suffolk latch - it was at least 60 years old and simply wore thin ! Chrissy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Chrissy, I suspect SBV is not notifiable because there's no government compensation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Chrissy, I'm not missing the point. Your last post has nothing to do with HSE. However AFAICS there's nothing preventing you from slaughtering a cockrell for private consumption there doesn't appear to be any change that exclusion in the "on farm killing and slaughtering" regulations. **LINK** & **LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I have just replaced the plug on our bath. This note came with the item, with respect to installation. If you cannot read it, double click on the image. Edited By Erfolg on 21/01/2013 15:02:35 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myron Beaumont Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Erfolg I've been puzzling for years over the installation of such complexities .Thank you for the invaluable information.I hope it helped you avoid the necessity for a qualified plumber to be called out .Make sure you adhere to the invaluable detailed instructions .I noticed their chain is broken .I hope yours came in one piece and the correct length otherwise you are in big trouble & a lot of expense to have it altered to suit your sink .I would never have thought of using water to clean it ! So many useful tips to us all who don't have the necessary knowhow .That surely is a superb example of progress . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Wright 2 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Posted by Alan Randall on 20/01/2013 20:34:42: Bet he could sell some seperately packaged though. As with lots of things that are leveled against health and safety, its realy fear of litigation that is the reason, and it's the fault of the courts who have taken common sense away and have allows people who do the stupidist things to be rewarded for it.. Allan That is the best summary yet of the current ridiculous situation that prevails today. Myron ....Brilliant . Tom. Edited By Tom Wright 2 on 21/01/2013 15:40:06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I have been flummoxed by the chain Myron, I was hoping that one of our H&S experts would advice, I had assumed that i must cut it with a hacksaw to make it as the drawing, then I thought of side cut pliers, but the risks, what can could I do? In the end I thought, you know i will just leave it. Be a Rebel! Given that there could be unforeseen risks using the assembly, I allowed the wife to use the bath first. I did stand by the telephone in case of the need for the emergency services. I was very surprised when both filling, using and emptying the bath went of with no need to call on any body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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