I.C. or Electric? - New Poll

[Erfolg]

I restarted modelling probably 8-10 years ago, at that time brushless motors and Lipos were pretty new in aeromodelling and phenomenally expensive. There even seemed to be a major section of the distribution sector who seemed to be determined to keep things that way, that is expensive, with nice margins.

Electric models tended to be small, due to cost and availability.

Today this world is almost unrecognisable, electric models are ever larger, now pushing into the large size grouping. Very large is still to be conquered, although it could well come to pass. This change is a consequence of low cost, availability and viability.

Liquid fuels still have a significant power to weight advantage, although some will argue otherwise, black becoming white.

Where electrics shine, is the inherent low noise levels, increasingly important to us. Then there is the reliability/flexibility of the electric power train. No mess at all after a flight. One other increasingly positive attribute, is that multiple propeller models are much easier to fly, due to system reliability and control.

I expect a switch from methanol to petrol as the distribution regulations and volumes sold work against the costings for methanol fuels. In essence something similar to the diesel fuel (paraffin/ether) situation. On that basis i expect petrol to be the dominant power source for large to very large models. Although i would not be surprised that in the longer term, that there will be increasing restrictions for large models.

[Josip Vrandecic -Mes]

Flying by electric power and all knowledge and the pleasures that come with it, I see as a reward , after many years of construction and a relatively successful career as FF modeller.
If I may digress...... for today's young people need to lose a lot of time to collect all the relevant knowledge and skills for an entirely ordinary IC flight.
And that is too much to expect from the Internet generation ( honorable exceptions) ... so I am satisfied with the survey because it seems to be 40% leccy : 40% glow-gas : 20% other.... on the end . At this rate of movement, in ten years following users of glow and gas will be reduced to 20% aproxx .

Thanks for your time.

[Dave Hopkin]

By Co-incidence....

Though I fear my 4S 5000 Lipos wouldnt be enough for it

**LINK**

[Steven S]

I voted “Electric” because if it wasn’t for electric power I wouldn’t be building and flying. After getting too sick to look after my house and yard we’ve had to move into a condo on the third floor of a five story building. My new shop is a rather large walk through closet off the spare bedroom. We wouldn’t be able to deal with the odors and potential danger of storing fuel for ICE powered models in our new home.

[ken anderson.]

hello eveyone-i didnt expect WW3 when i suggested to beth we have a Poll to see what the preference was at this time...it was straight forward wondering which type was been taken to the field/site ic or electric .....not 15 rounds last man standing etc...

ken anderson...ne...1....... ic/electric dept.

[Erfolg]

Well I do not recognise the picture you paint Ken, on the contrary, a very civilised review of where we are with respect to motive power types.

I did expect the equivalent of WW3.

It does seem that electric power has now reached a level of maturity, that it is no longer seen as an upstart threat to IC power. Electric power has arrived in the mainstream.

To the credit of IC users, we have not heard the charge, electric models are as noisy as IC models, many are noisier. Or the suggestion that electric models are inherently dangerous, spring into live without encouragement.

The debate has been very rational.

Perhaps the most interesting group for me is the ic/electric group. Has it grown from the last survey, or become smaller. Although I sense the direction is an ever increasing use of electric power.

I also wonder how many electric fliers only such as myself, have quite a number of IC engines of various types and sizes sitting in hope of use once again.

[..]

Posted by ken anderson. on 06/12/2015 13:09:30:

hello eveyone-i didnt expect WW3 when i suggested to beth we have a Poll to see what the preference was at this time...it was straight forward wondering which type was been taken to the field/site ic or electric .....not 15 rounds last man standing etc...

ken anderson...ne...1....... ic/electric dept.

I've niether voted or given argument as in line with what has been said by others it's been done to death and has not long been done on here.

Yes it's interesting to see results but surely not every year? I made a suggestion about a poll on telemetry, something that's becoming available to more & more but that went without comment? Let's do radio brand's next ? That always goes down well.

[Pete B]

Folks, we mods have been sitting here patiently, bags of popcorn in hand, waiting for the thread to 'boil over' as we half-expected.

So far it's been conducted quite rationally apart from one half-hearted attempt to wind people up. We all have our preferences and different ways of expressing them - please try and treat any baiting posts with the contempt they deserve. If you don't bite, the trolls soon lose interest....

I do not need to add that, if anyone persists in pushing the envelope, we will step in and the usual sanctions applied

Pete

[Bob Cotsford]

So who will be the first to compile this and previous such polls into a single spreadsheet to illustrate how opinions are changing over the years? I assume that is the purpose of these annual polls?

Just for Erf:

at my club we are required to noise test electrics these days as some are kicking out serious noise.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by Erfolg on 06/12/2015 13:25:13:

To the credit of IC users, we have not heard the charge, electric models are as noisy as IC models, many are noisier. Or the suggestion that electric models are inherently dangerous, spring into live without encouragement.

To my apparent discredit, I did actually point out that the noisiest model flying at my club is electric powered! This is an exception as most EP are reasonably quiet - although some EDFs can be rather raucous. What isn't in doubt is that effective silencing of IC engines is a must - but don't underestimate the noise generated by propellers - which are common to both power sources. It is quite possible to fly IC below 75dB given efficient silencing and propeller choice - this is a level well below many "silent flight" models currently operated at most sites although I would readily admit that for practicality, most IC models are operated between 78 - 82dB at present.

One decided advantage of EP is the ability to swing larger coarse pitch props - good from the scale point of view and as tickover speed is irrelevent, they don't give residual thrust on approach with the throttle fully closed (not that a scale approach should be made this way!)

I'm saddened by the blinkered approach of some proponents of their favoured power sources - of whatever type. Some of these evangelists don't appear to have any meaningful experience of their hated types yet tell us that our own choices are absolutely wrong. I have little interest in helicopters - you'll often find me visiting "the facilities" during heli slots at shows, but I respect the incredible skill levels and dedication that it takes to fly 3D displays and would never dream of telling someone that they should give up helis for fixed wing because they bore me!

As you've raised it Erf, I do have to take issue with trivialising the real dangers of electric powered models - especially as power levels are increasing. I have seen the results of inattention when setting up and operating EP models and find myself constantly reminding people of the dangers of body parts in prop arcs or their potential paths - the message seems very hard to put across, especially to older and more experienced modellers. I accept that it is unusual for motors to spring into life for no apparent reason - but it can and does happen, although it is very rare for it not to be through human error in some way. Whatever the cause, the results can be very serious and I would never discourage the concept that a connected electric motor could spring to life at any time.

Let's remember that we are all aeromodellers and should celebrate and enjoy the different disciplines and choices that enrich the hobby.

Edited By Martin Harris on 06/12/2015 14:20:19

[Erfolg]

I does seem we have entered a new age, where all recognise that noise is a potential threat to any site, irrespective of the power source.

The recent loss by the BMFA of a flying site indicates how just meeting the requirements of regulations is not necessarily enough.

As with most things, the hazard arising with any system, can be particular to it. The same is true with both IC and electrics.

[PeterF]

There is one loss that i have noted now I have converted my fleet to all electric and that is ambience created by sound in one specific case. My Etrich Taube had an OS 40 4 stroke, too big really as it will fly on a 25, but it meant that I could over prop it and when flying in a scale manner it just burbled along on 25 to 30% throttle sight and sound coming together. I miss that and I took a bit of stick for it from the judges / critics sat in the pits.

[Dai Fledermaus]

Earlier on in this thread I questioned the point of these Polls and this one in particular, mainly because this subject has been done to death and always generates more heat than light. What's the point of getting worked up about which form of propulsion is better or more popular, it's a hobby fellers and this is supposed to be a friendly forum and a public one at that don't forget.

Secondly, this or any other poll for that matter, is only representative of the people who bother to vote on this particular forum, not of the hobby in general, so it would be wrong to draw too many conclusions from it. There can be no doubt that electric flying is gaining in popularity, yet despite this the Club of which I am a member is still mainly IC.

Personally I like engines for the same reason that I like old cars and old motorbikes, but I can see the advantages of electric motors as well, but for the moment it doesn't do it for me I'm affraid.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[KingKade]

Polls force us to tick one box.... Then explain! Not black and white for me im afraid?!

Clicked on electric! But not giving up on ic! That's as far as i go!

K

Edited By KingKade on 06/12/2015 17:58:51

[leccyflyer]

Why didn't you click on both?

[KingKade]

I just perfer electric. The original post question.

Edited By KingKade on 06/12/2015 22:11:16

[Levanter]

Today polling shows a real nice balance. I voted for both although I am predominantly IC. I am really enjoying learning about electric power and will probably end up having a fairly mixed fleet. I don't yet have any EDF but that is on my list. I can appreciate the advantages of an electric multi but on the other hand I can't wait to hear four Saito 30s throbbing away in unison. I am also very keen on seaplanes and I can see that a dead stick has distinct disadvantages!

The hobby probably throws new opportunities at me faster than I am ever going to enjoy them all. Long may it continue.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

TBH folks these polls aren't intended to generate any definitive data. If you think there is a backroom of market analysts in MTM analysing these you are very much mistaken

They are just what they seem to be - a trigger for some discussion and getting folks involved in the forum in a fun way. Yes, its mildly interesting to find out if the position you personally hold is "in the majority" or if you are "one of the few". But beyond that I really wouldn't put too confidence in the results - its "just for fun" really.

BEB

[Erfolg]

BEB

It probably does help a lot of people in the model trade, in a very practical way.

The sets of polls/surveys you have however unscientific from the context of statistical analysis, do indicate the general direction of travel.

They will also provide some reassurance to manufacturers and importers with respect to their judgement in some cases, possibly ringing alarm bells for others.

I also think it would be foolish for any editor not to take account of the the general findings, with respect to what the readership is broadly involved with.What it does not provide is an indication and strength of aspiration. I know that for me as an example, article after article with respect to large petrol IC motors leaves me cold. Very large models mildly interest me as a spectacle. The big issue not answered by the polls, how much the readership is interested in topics outside the core scene in modelling.

I do think they are a bit more than fun or even curisoity.