I was warned but still went ahead

[Rocker]

Just brought a Durafly Vampire from "Hobby King".This is the first time I have used Hobby King.A lot of flyers from my club warned me not to use Hobby King but I went ahead a brought the Vampire .Finished building it and started the engine up and it just shook it self to bits.To go straight to the point the EDF was all loose inside the engine destroyed the plastic fins .So I contacted Hobby King who insist I return the model before they will consider any warranty claims ,I explained the model was all made up and would be impossible to post back to them but they said that with out it being posted back to them they could not do anything with the warranty claim.I was warned about Hobby King customer service now I have found out to my cost £102 done the drain I will not be using Hobby King ever again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[John F]

To be fair if you buy from any model aircraft supplier they would probably insist upon you sending the aircraft in for examination.

If you just claim that your aircraft is not fit for purpose and they blindly give you a refund they would quickly go out of business. They need the offending item back.

Any business you care to mention does the same.

[Matt Jones]

Just to add some balance here I've now had 45 orders from them, everything from tiny accessories to motors, esc's and airframes up to 50cc and haven't had an issue.

[kc]

If you paid by credit card take the complaint up with the card company, saying the goods were defective which will surely produce some better reaction from Hobby King.

Otherwise if you live anywhere near the HK UK warehouse - somewhere between Ipswich and Colchester - then consider taking it back.

Lots of people have bought many items from Hobby King without too many problems. on the occasion of a problem a photo of the defective item usually convinces them. So a photo of the complete & intact plane together with any debris from the fan blades may convince them.

[Glenn Philbrick]

No doubt you are very angry with your purchase but I have had the opposite with HK. On Sunday I ordered come retracts and servos from International warehouse as none is stock anywhere else. I was not in a hurry for them, they arrived on Tuesday afternoon delivered by DHL. I have bought many bits from them and only had to return one which they replaced without hassle. I admit it is not easy to send a completed model back so hope you get some resolution. If you paid by credit card you might be able to claim against them.

[Martyn K]

Just cut off - carefully - the parts you had to glue together and put it back in the box and return with a letter explaining what you had to do and what the problem is and any returns number they have given you. You cant really blame them for wanting to see the evidence.

[Gary Manuel]

HK usually accept good photographs of the offending part as evidence.

I've had a couple of refunds for either faulty or damaged goods and eventually got a refund. The refund has been in the form of a credit note though, but that suits me as I can always find something I need.

[Rocker]

That's fine but they have told me they do have any replacements to replace the fins.So without the fins the edf is not much use making the Vampire not a lot of fun

[Gary Manuel]

Tell that you think it would be reasonable for them to send you a complete EDF unit - or a partial refund to allow you to but a new one.

I can recomment their Dr Mad Thrust EDF's. You won't have any trouble with one of them in your vampire.

[kc]

Actually it wouldnt be a huge box for an assembled Vampire so find a box from somewhere and tell them to come and collect it and give a refund. The Consumers Association suggest a letter for such a purpose which reads something like this ---

"

On ........... I placed an order for a [item] and this was delivered by you on ........

I have discovered that the ......... has the following problem: [.............

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 makes it an implied term of the contract that goods be as described, of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose.

Any returns policy that says I have to cover the cost of returning items must only relate to the situation where I change my mind about the item ordered and not where there is a problem with the item.

I should not lose out financially as a result of your breach of contract and accordingly all costs of returning the item should be met by you.

I also require you to confirm whether you will arrange for ....... to be collected or will reimburse me for the cost of returning it."

[Dave Hopkin]

If you brought an item of clothing from M&S and it was faulty you would be expected to return it for a refund/exchange - If they just sent out a replacement part/airframe for every compliant they would be bankrupt in a month - I find it totally reasonable that you would be expected to return the faulty goods to claim a refund/replacement

As for "A lot of flyers from my club warned me not to use Hobby King" a LOT of flyers at BOTH my clubs use Hobbyking frequently as do I, I am usually amazed at the short delivery times and the quality of the goods for the price you pay for them - and so are virtually all of the flyers at my clubs who use HK

[David perry 1]

First off its not an engine, its a motor. It might not seem a big deal but if you get the terminology wrong with them they might think theyre dealing with someone incapable of reading instructions, it sets their alarm bells ringing. I AM NOT SAYING YOU ARE.

Secondly, like the other guys, I have had very good experiences with HK and wouldnt hesitate for a second to use them again! I suspect you've had a friday afternoon model and thats a shame. It'll be worth your time trying to negotiate with them; photos or just the faulty parts maybe. HK are generally very good. I wish you all the best with this.

Im very tempted with the 40 quid Vampire...its such a good price it seems to me!

David

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

My experience with HK is that if you don't get the result that is reasonable, it's worth pursuing your case. I had some issues with a foam Hunter - yes, they suggested sending it back to China which was impractical as like you, it was fully assembled.

In my case, I discovered that the pre-installed "designed for 6S" motor/fan unit was actually rated for 4S. Performance was excellent until a rapid loss of power resulted in a dead stick landing, ruined motor and damaged cell. After several on-line sessions, unsuitable offers and emails, they finally agreed to replace the EDF unit with the correct one for 6S.

A recent problem with a retract unit which failed on its first operation was solved after a single contact and subsequent emailing of a video.

I found the on-line chat sessions to be far more effective than email contact.

The gory details are here if you want to read them!  The battery didn't last and was replaced after a little more correspondence.

Edited By Martin Harris on 17/02/2016 19:18:46

[Andy48]

I had the same problem.

I have found the chat line next to useless. E-mail is far better. If they insist on it being returned, and are not happy with photographs, ask them to supply the packaging - its buried there in the Sale of Goods Act, seeing as it is now assembled and you can't put it back in the original box.

If that does not work then an email to the managing director should do the job.

It worked for me in similar circumstances and I got a refund.

[PatMc]

Posted by David perry 1 on 17/02/2016 18:03:51:

First off its not an engine, its a motor.

The words "engine" & "motor" are interchangeable, they have exactly the same meaning.

[flight1]

Posted by PatMc on 17/02/2016 19:19:37:

Posted by David perry 1 on 17/02/2016 18:03:51:

First off its not an engine, its a motor.

The words "engine" & "motor" are interchangeable, they have exactly the same meaning.

Only in the laymans' world

In everyday, non-technical usage the words have much the same meaning. But they have such clearly defined and fixed compounds (except in the rocket case) that they can’t be thought of as entirely interchangeable. The magazine article argues that the difference is that engines contain their own fuel or are part of a highly integrated engine-fuel system, whereas a motor draws on externally supplied energy. That’s the rule given in the Oxford English Dictionary

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I've always thought of engines as being fuel burning machines and motors as simple converters of electrical or other stored or remotely generated energy. However, there is the case of the motor car to consider!

[Geoff S]

I've had pretty well 100% satisfaction with HK. The only problem I had was an ignition set that arrived just after we went on a 3 week holiday and the Post Office sent it back because they only keep 'signed for' packets for a week. So not really HK's fault.

I've seen several Durafly Vampires flying very successfully so it's not a universal problem. Don't write off HK too soon but pursue your problem on the lines suggested above and I think you'll get it sorted out.

Geoff

PS I think all engines can be referred to as motors but all motors (ie electric ones) cannot conventionally be referred to as engines

Edited By Geoff Sleath on 17/02/2016 20:40:12

Edited By Geoff Sleath on 17/02/2016 20:44:24

[Simon Chaddock]

Rocker

Why £102 down the drain?

Even if you get no satisfaction from HK surely you can just replace the EDF.

[John Privett]

Posted by kc on 17/02/2016 17:41:30:

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 makes it an implied term of the contract that goods be as described, of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose.

Any returns policy that says I have to cover the cost of returning items must only relate to the situation where I change my mind about the item ordered and not where there is a problem with the item.

I should not lose out financially as a result of your breach of contract and accordingly all costs of returning the item should be met by you.

I also require you to confirm whether you will arrange for ....... to be collected or will reimburse me for the cost of returning it."

Good luck quoting UK law at them! You placed your order with a company operating out of China, and paid in US dollars without paying UK tax. Even if they deliver (optionally) from a warehouse in the UK you cannot go there and buy anything - or indeed buy anything from them when they have a stand at shows. So where does UK law come into it? Better see if there's a Sale of Goods Act in Beijing.

Having said that, I do use Hobbyking and haven't had any problems with them. Those that do have problems generally seem to get it sorted out eventually.

[MattyB]

John is right, the consumer goods act offers no protection as you have not transacted with a UK based entity. Unfortunately in this instance you are probably going to have to suck it up and buy a new EDF. It's one of those things about HK - the prices are rock bottom for a reason. You have been unlucky, but over a larger number of transactions you will have saved enough to offset the additional EDF unit.

Having said all that, at the end of the day this may be bad thing - whilst the stock Vampire does fly well, it's even better with a high blade count metal fan on 5 or 6S. Fit, balance, enjoy and forget your bad experience - it really is a great model for the money, especially with an upgraded powerplant.

[Piers Bowlan]

 

This might be what you want Rocher, here. The UK warehouse is out of stock but not the Euro warehouse (no vat or custom charges and the postage may be about the same as the UK). I bought the kit version of the Vampire as I didn't want the retracts as my field is too rough for wheels so hand launch only. Be sure to check that any wires in front of the fan are restrained to ensure they can't get sucked into the fan, I used strips of duct tape (there is a lot of suction in there). I am not suggesting that is what happened to you, you had a defective product, but I have heard of this happening. I used a 3300 4s setup with excellent results. The lack of nose wheel made the model tail heavy so needed more weight in the nose hence the larger LiPo. Incidentally the c of g is too far back in the instructions so 10mm further forward is a good starting point (I went for 20mm further forward, about 290mm not 310 as stated in the instructions. Finally, ensure you reinforce the booms with carbon fibre strips before the first flight as otherwise they will break and you will be disappointed. I cut slits along the length of the booms both underneath and along the inside. I inserted a .05mm X 8mm carbon strip into the slits. I then run thin cyano into the slits (I used kicker). The booms will now be rigid, just make sure they are straight and you haven't introduced a bend before adding cyano!

By the way, over 70 orders from HobbyKing and no probs with any of them fortunately.

 

 

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 18/02/2016 06:08:31

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 18/02/2016 06:23:14

[brokenenglish]

Posted by PatMc on 17/02/2016 19:19:37:

Posted by David perry 1 on 17/02/2016 18:03:51:

First off its not an engine, its a motor.

The words "engine" & "motor" are interchangeable, they have exactly the same meaning.

Pat, I disagree!

An i.c. engine can be called "engine" or "motor", but an electric motor shouldn't be called an "engine".

OK, I didn't post just for nit-picking, but to say that I've had great service over the last 2 or 3 years from the HK Europe warehouse, and from the Global warehouse in Hong Kong.

As I live out in the sticks, I've started getting even adhesives, etc. from them, in addition to just planes, and their adhesives are absolutely top quality, all delivered to my door in a couple of days from Holland...

Usual disclaimer, I have no connection whatsoever, etc. except as a very satisfied customer.

[Dave Bran]

The HK Vampire makes a great Slope Soarer, it has a superb glide, so if no replacement EDF presents itself, there's your answer!!

I have one, I know two others in my club with them. The other two lasted minutes, one of which I saw go in......def blatant pilot error. He was cursing HK for weeks. Sometimes they cannot win.

I removed the retracts from mine, and unless you are on and off tarmac it's pushing their small adhesion pads a lot.

Filled the holes with EPP and finished with "no weight" filler, painted silver. DO reinforce the booms, I used a hot soldering iron to make a groove a force fit for carbon tubes underside, then pushed it in and used wicking CA to hold, easy.

Hand launch is almost a "rev up and let go"., even with no breeze under its wings. I use 3300mAh 4S. Didn't need any ballast, flies perfectly with CG how it ended up. I have flown it with a much lighter 2200 4S and it was STILL quite well balanced, so I do not understand the stated need to possibly ballast.

Its a really nice flying plane, with no vices at all. You might like to consider spoilerons though if your landing site is short as it does glide VERY well!!

[brokenenglish]

Thanks Dave.

I was thinking of getting one of these (I have a field of long-grass close to the house!).

I think you've persuaded me!