Laser Engines - Technical questions

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Actually, I'm afraid that it's your engines/fuel that have drawn comment along with one other fairly regular user!

The rationale is that the "club" fuel already has 2% castor in it which would be rather tricky to extract, it's readily available at a great price, we still have a reasonable existing stock and the small castor content hasn't caused any noticeable problems in the 18 years I've been using it on a very regular basis.

You may safely leave your castor in the darkest recesses of your shed but thanks for the offer!

Edited By Martin Harris on 24/06/2020 15:49:20

[Ron Gray]

Best use I found for surplus Castor was in my lawn mower, smelt lovely along with the niff of freshly cut grass!

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

There's no denying that it has a lovely smell - shall I claim that as justification for continuing to use our club fuel?

[Jon H]

The sweet smell from the MT fuel is not the oil but their SICAL Additive. All of their SICAL fuels smell like that to some degree or other. Given that the additive does more good than anything else i am more than happy to live with the smell.

And anyway, it could be worse...it could smell like petrol

[Bob Cotsford]

When I ran the MT Laser 5 at the club they were all asking which chip shop I'd robbed the oil from

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 24/06/2020 16:09:36:

The sweet smell from the MT fuel is not the oil but their SICAL Additive. All of their SICAL fuels smell like that to some degree or other. Given that the additive does more good than anything else i am more than happy to live with the smell.

And anyway, it could be worse...it could smell like petrol

I googled SICAL and it reckons " SICAL is a Portuguese coffee brand company under the Nestlé portfolio since 1987"

I'm rather surprised that I find it so objectionable!

Edited By Martin Harris on 24/06/2020 16:24:30

[Bruce Collinson]

I can't see it on MT website (the low oil fuel). Wassit called?

BTC

[Gary Spicer 1]

Its not on the web site, I dont think it has an official name yet, I gave MT a call and Phil sent me an email with payment details, my order arrived next day.

Thanks Jon for taking the time to develop this new fuel.

[Bruce Collinson]

Thank you Gary, I'll enquire direct.

BTC

[Ron Gray]

Following your post Gary I sent them an email but not received a response yet. It may be better to ring them first!

[Gary Spicer 1]

I would ring them Ron, I used the number on their contact page. I phoned about 10am, it was with me next day.

This is what the labeling looks like at the moment, when Jon has settled on the blend I suspect MT will redo the artwork.(just guessing) the label show 5% (nothing to do with the oil) (Laser 70 in WOT4 to add interest, kit built like your Extra WoT)

**LINK**

Edited By Gary Spicer 1 on 24/06/2020 18:35:40

[Martin McIntosh]

Other than less mess, is there any other advantage to me if I used 7% oil, price for instance.

[Jon H]

Posted by Martin McIntosh on 24/06/2020 18:39:32:

Other than less mess, is there any other advantage to me if I used 7% oil, price for instance.

Cheaper, cleaner, better economy.

As for availability its all a mess due to the current drama. Eventually we hope to market it as laser 5 pro, laser ultra clean, laser 5 diet? Not sure, we will come up with some marketing buzz word i suspect.

Whatever we do we need to make it clear that its no good for other engines as i cant guarantee that saito/os etc will be ok with low oil. You can see the problem, some clown uses the wrong fuel, engine dies, rants away on a forum that model technics fuel killed his engine. Its not a good look when the facts of the matter are ignored as it throws MT under the bus.

Im sure we can come up with something.

[Michael Kulagin]

Put about 3% nitro-benzene in the fuel mix and it will confuse everybody. Smells like boot polish (when we used to clean boots/shoes). Used to add it to the fuel mix used for class 'B' team race way back in the 70's.

[David Davis]

Jon I'd like to make a plea for the return of the Laser 45 or 50 even if it's just a limited batch. I know that this subject has been raised and rejected before, and I realise that you are all by yourself at the factory Jon, and that you are currently busy reviving the V twins which is where I suspect the greater profit lies.

However, I believe that there is a market for small four-strokes in vintage models and small scale models. Current choice is limited to the Saito 30 and 40 priced at £190 and £220. The smallest OS fourstroke currently being offered for sale is a 56 and that costs over £300.

I will not be buying a Saito, excellent engines though they are because I have an unemployed OS 40 Surpass sitting in a box alongside two OS 48 Surpasses plus a couple of OS 52s and a Magnum 52. So I have enough four stroke engines to suit any small vintage or scale model which I might care to build.

However, I would willingly give £230 for a Laser of the same size just for the cachet of having a small Laser in a model.

Is anyone with me?

[Dirk Witvrouwen 1]

I would buy a laser suitable for a Svenson Vicomte in a heartbeat, if one were to come available that is.

[Jon H]

Sorry DD but the 45, 50 and 62 are dead and even the current 70 is on the brink as they are just not cost effective to make. Also, while they ran well, our 45/50 were too heavy and too big physically. Our current 70 shares most of their dimensions.

I would like to offer a 50 size engine, but it would have to be a whole new design to make it smaller/lighter and that is not very likely im afraid.

[Chris Walby]

David,

Very good point and I would just like to say put me down for one or twin. There are other threads running with a kit builder asking what people what, the general conclusion was for faster build kits of a size that suits the more cost effective electric set up. Perhaps this is the way in for IC. Learn with a foam ARTF, fly a few larger foam models (electric) and branch out in to building (easier to build ones) with either electric or IC.

The primary reason I dropped out of that was there was no suitable Laser engine available, yes I know others are available and I run a coupe of 2 stroke OS's but for me I would rather stick with what I know and like.

The hobby will come under increasing pressure in the future to limit noise be it the perceived screaming 2 stroke or more pleasant sounding 4 stroke, but pressure non the less. The increasing cost of ARTF's will make owing a small ic more attractive if there are models that they can have IC fitted. This has the added advantage of allowing he newer modeller to progress onto larger and more complex IC powered models.

Then of course it would be nice to reach for the pinnacle of multi cylinders engines.

[Gary Spicer 1]

Jon, please dont kill off the 70 put the price up to make a profit. The 70 and 80 should be priced the same, the 70 cant cost you any less to make.

On a different note, would a Laser 180 be overpowered in a CF Extra Wot like the one Ron has on the go at the moment... **LINK**

[David Davis]

Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 25/06/2020 08:29:53:

Sorry DD but the 45, 50 and 62 are dead and even the current 70 is on the brink as they are just not cost effective to make. Also, while they ran well, our 45/50 were too heavy and too big physically. Our current 70 shares most of their dimensions.

I would like to offer a 50 size engine, but it would have to be a whole new design to make it smaller/lighter and that is not very likely im afraid.

Well if you do get round to making that 50 Jon put me down for one and if you need someone to test a prototype I'm yer man!

[Martin McIntosh]

Don`t even think about nitro benzene, a former fuel supplier once substituted this for nitro methane without saying so. The stench lingers for months. I got a small squirt of it in an eye from a split pipe and ended up in hospital, nearly losing the eye.

[Ron Gray]

Isn't a case of we have to face up to the fact that smaller IC powered planes are now being designed / powered by leccy power plants? As I see it, the future for IC is in the larger sizes and I don't think that they have to be petrol either. The main gripes with glow are the fuel cost and the mess, the former is one that I think most would take on the chin and the latter, well Jon seems to have found a solution to that in his low oil content fuel!

Now don't get me wrong, I'm a dyed in the wool IC addict and in particular am a 'Laser Man' through and through but even I am now looking at leccy power for models that would normally be powered by a 70.

[Jon H]

Ron is quite right. Electric is nibbling away at low end IC and has been for years. 30 and 40 4 strokes never sold that well, 50's more so but even they are starting to come under pressure.

But, there is a fair bit going on behind the scenes here at the moment. There has been a realisation that the accounting side of the business has been a dogs dinner for years and we dont have a clue what anything actually costs. As we all know material cost + machine time + labour cost etc gives you a component price and for reasons i cannot even begin to fathom, no one has ever bothered to work it out.

Anyway the results of these investigations will decide the fate of the 70. If it needs to sell for more than £250 then its likely we will kill it off as it wont sell at that price. In the meanwhile, i still have parts for about another 50 so the end is my no means nigh.

DD, dont get your hopes up. Its a hypothetical thing as it would be a whole new engine from scratch with very few common parts to current engines. I would like to do it, but its not going to happen.

180 in an extra wot? yes, but be careful you dont pull it apart. We normally recommend a 150/5 and even they can pull the tail off in a fast dive. The 180 is well suited to the slightly bigger acrowot XL artf though.

[Gary Spicer 1]

Thanks for that Jon I thought 180 might be a tad to much for the Extra.

[David Davis]

Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 25/06/2020 10:05:01:

... DD, dont get your hopes up. Its a hypothetical thing as it would be a whole new engine from scratch with very few common parts to current engines. I would like to do it, but its not going to happen...

Even I am putting an electric motor in a double sized Tomboy. I could have used any of the engines mentioned above but thought that the structure is to delicate for an i/c engine.