Piers Bowlan Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 5 hours ago, GrumpyGnome said: It's not 'resistance to change' for me.... It's just not practical right now. Currently (sic), I have 3 charging points within 12 miles, and I have no off street parking available for charging. Oh, and an EV is flippin' expensive - I'm on a pension. We don't all have a choice.... In reality, my 12 year old, low mileage Skoda Octavia will, hopefully, last me until I don't need a replacement. I appreciate that GG but in fairness I did say ‘in a couple of decades’ when there is infrastructure everywhere to cater for EVs and a large second hand car market. Battery costs will have inevitably fallen too (solid state and aluminium/air batteries?). Even today new EV cars are available in China for £10K. Inevitably with anything new it is the luxury market which is catered for initially. Prices will fall in real terms when they become mainstream. A new Leaf is £28k if you are not fussed about leather seats You could buy a used one until recently for £7000 with a 30kWh battery, before the second hand car market went mad. A basic new Octavia SE is over £24,000 by comparison, incidentally. Yes, less than a Leaf. I am on a pension too by the way GG. I meet many people driving around in luxury SUV who could have the means to go EV but are wedded to their ICE engine because that is what they have always had. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 You're probably right and in a few years there will be a hard choice for those that regular change cars .... 'do I buy new EV or used IC?' as IC becomes more niche. A couple of really significant hurdles to overcome first - cost and infrastructure. Also seems to be a concern about the drop off in performance of batteries, possibly putting people off used vehicles. As I'm a grumpy so and so, and have only ever bought one new car (had a number of new company cars), so if I did need to replace my old IC car, it'd need to be second hand.... EV has undoubtedly come on in leaps and bounds, and will continue to do so. Wonder if there'll be after-market sound modules to make electric sound like ic. Probably. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 1 minute ago, GrumpyGnome said: EV has undoubtedly come on in leaps and bounds, and will continue to do so. Wonder if there'll be after-market sound modules to make electric sound like ic. Probably. My IC car at the moment on the way to the model field sounds like Peter Gabiel , longer trips it's my wife,,,,? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 (edited) 36 minutes ago, GrumpyGnome said: You're probably right and in a few years there will be a hard choice for those that regular change cars .... 'do I buy new EV or used IC?' as IC becomes more niche. A couple of really significant hurdles to overcome first - cost and infrastructure. Also seems to be a concern about the drop off in performance of batteries, possibly putting people off used vehicles. As I'm a grumpy so and so, and have only ever bought one new car (had a number of new company cars), so if I did need to replace my old IC car, it'd need to be second hand.... EV has undoubtedly come on in leaps and bounds, and will continue to do so. Wonder if there'll be after-market sound modules to make electric sound like ic. Probably. I did consider a used Leaf as I thought I would just use it very locally so range wouldn’t really be an issue and it was better than cycling in the rain! I am glad we got the new one as it turned out. We use it as our primary car and did 12k miles the first year. I believe battery dedradaton isn’t such the big issue some people think. I bought a ‘wizzy’ Audi TT back in the day but after 12 years and 95k miles it was quite seditory, so even ICE engines lose their sparkle ✨. My Leaf is 217ps and does 0-60 in 6.9sec so if it loses 20% of that in 10 years it will still have 173ps (not too shabby!). OK, the range will reduce to 192m from 240m (144m from 180m, typical winter driving). The electric drive train including the battery is guaranteed 8years and 100,000 miles by Nissan against any defect including dropping 20% in battery capacity/performance. Edited May 15, 2022 by Piers Bowlan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lima Hotel Foxtrot Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 2 hours ago, GrumpyGnome said: EV has undoubtedly come on in leaps and bounds, and will continue to do so. Wonder if there'll be after-market sound modules to make electric sound like ic. Probably. There already is. It only simulates certain cars and can only be fitted to certain models so I'm waiting for one that sounds like a TIE fighter. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Walsh Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 3 hours ago, Lima Hotel Foxtrot said: There already is. It only simulates certain cars and can only be fitted to certain models so I'm waiting for one that sounds like a TIE fighter. Steam engine sound for me, preferably Flying Scotsman! I want to mess with pedestrians' heads! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDD15 Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 16 hours ago, Piers Bowlan said: Interesting post, particularly ‘buy the smallest battery you can with the fastest charge capability’ the logic of that is a bit lost on me ?? I bought a Leaf a year ago - I will never go back to ICE. But given the choice between the 40kWh and the 62kWh Leaf battery it was a no… My reasoning is quite simply the cost of the battery, it’s often quite a bit more for the larger battery option which you may not use 95% of the time. Also having seen and experienced encouraging signs that fast charging infrastructure is finally getting better (yes I have adopted a glass half full approach here!) then the need for a mahoosive battery diminishes further. In terms of fast charging capability when you are “road tripping” I think the faster the better, my constitution can only handle one McDonalds and a couple of cups of coffee a day! ? You may not have experienced this given your Leaf can fast charge twice as fast as mine, envious Moi? ? Clearly if someone decides that all they want to do is 300 plus mile round trips with no fast or destination charging then all of the above goes straight out the window and they buy a big Tesla… ? All of the above is of course IMHO and what I have found suits me may not work for somebody else. Really glad you’re enjoying your Leaf BTW. ? idd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDD15 Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 2 hours ago, Shaun Walsh said: Is that with or without whistle sir? idd PS Etrons have a really star trekkie pedestrian warning noise which IMHO sounds ? We Leaf drivers merely have a sort of low whistling sound, very boring! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Walsh Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, IDD15 said: Is that with or without whistle sir? idd PS Etrons have a really star trekkie pedestrian warning noise which IMHO sounds ? We Leaf drivers merely have a sort of low whistling sound, very boring! With the whistle worked by the horn and I want a Guards whistle blown when you engage drive just before you set off and random blasts of safety valve letting off steam when stationary in traffic together with the steam water injectors operating.. Edited May 15, 2022 by Shaun Walsh 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 3 hours ago, IDD15 said: My reasoning is quite simply the cost of the battery, it’s often quite a bit more for the larger battery option which you may not use 95% of the time. Also having seen and experienced encouraging signs that fast charging infrastructure is finally getting better (yes I have adopted a glass half full approach here!) then the need for a mahoosive battery diminishes further. In terms of fast charging capability when you are “road tripping” I think the faster the better, my constitution can only handle one McDonalds and a couple of cups of coffee a day! ? You may not have experienced this given your Leaf can fast charge twice as fast as mine, envious Moi? ? Clearly if someone decides that all they want to do is 300 plus mile round trips with no fast or destination charging then all of the above goes straight out the window and they buy a big Tesla… ? All of the above is of course IMHO and what I have found suits me may not work for somebody else. Really glad you’re enjoying your Leaf BTW. ? idd Thank you for the explanation idd, I understand now (I think ??) I must confess, I didn’t look at the price of the smaller battery when I bought my Leaf and I agree, 95% of the time you don’t need a humungusly large battery (Tesla drivers please note). I think there is a market for a basic no-frills EV with a 100mile range. For instance, you don’t need a Bose sound system, adaptive cruise control/lane keeping etc. The Chinese build them for the Chinese market but not for export, which is a pity because in China they are silly cheap and look like…. cars, not a design schools student’s nightmare (Twizy!). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 Who needs Bose, I DO !, stuck in traffic jams 45 minutes to go 500 metres in Montpellier, as for the twizy, Citroen have flogged 20.000 of these ugly things in 2 years,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 I'm not sure which end is the front. Does it need a diesel loco to pull it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 12 hours ago, Piers Bowlan said: I think there is a market for a basic no-frills EV with a 100mile range. For instance, you don’t need a Bose sound system, adaptive cruise control/lane keeping etc. The Chinese build them for the Chinese market but not for export, As you say. The market is already there in some parts of the world. But not here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Nigel R said: I'm not sure which end is the front. Does it need a diesel loco to pull it? No that's what your Nissan leaf or most electric cars look like when they are pushed along the road with a flat battery by an IC car,,,? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 Paul, you're becoming repetitively tedious. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 2 hours ago, Nigel R said: I'm not sure which end is the front. That is apparently a design feature! The front and rear panels are interchangeable as are the two doors, one front hinged, the other rear hinged. I do wonder if whoever proposed it was having a bit of fun and assumed it would get the chop at the concept stage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 16 minutes ago, Trevor said: That is apparently a design feature! The front and rear panels are interchangeable as are the two doors, one front hinged, the other rear hinged. Crikey. Certainly thumbs its nose to the notion of aerodynamic drag. I think I might wait for a more regular (super)mini to come into our price range though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 At least it comes with tinted windows ...... so nobody can recognise you. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Walsh Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 15 minutes ago, Nigel R said: Crikey. Certainly thumbs its nose to the notion of aerodynamic drag. I think I might wait for a more regular (super)mini to come into our price range though. Don't think aerodynamic drag is a problem, 8 hp, max speed 28mph. Saw one of these being tested on TV, think it was the gadget show, even at 28 mph they almost turned it over on a corner, it was on 2 wheels and at a very precarious angle. In some European countries you can drive it without a license. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 Pretty sure aerodynamic drag is a big thing, even at 28mph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Nigel R said: Pretty sure aerodynamic drag is a big thing, even at 28mph. The Ami is a specific solution to a specific problem - a small, cheap, slow vehicle for urban hops that doesn't even reqire a license to drive in most countries (it's classified as a Quadricycle). Most will never leave a 30mph zone, so the top speed really isn't an issue. No, it won't suit lots of people, but it doesn't make it rubbish. It is better seen as an alternative to a cargo ebike than a traditional car tbh. Edited May 16, 2022 by MattyB 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDD15 Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 Probably a better option than the Ami for the UK city car market. The specs remind me of my first and only mini! We just need Dacia to bring them over here… Fully Charged Dacia Spring review. idd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDD15 Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 Meanwhile the Ami may go a bit roughty toughty with added Tupperware.. Ami goes suv like what was that said earlier about design students? idd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 Plus when the engineers get really serious https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/mercedes-vision-eqxx-has-driven-over-1000km-single-charge 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 Interesting article on BBC today.....Will swapping out electric car batteries catch on? - BBC News Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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