Electric Cars.

[Tim C]

I think the 12v battery is not up to task, the cars nearing 2 years, the 12v battery was replaced by Kia after a year after repeated issues with dead car and discharged battery, it seems to have a hard time and was dud after a year, maybe this is happening with the replacement as well, I will get my meter on it and see if retaining a full charge ok.

 

the doors will unlock in a crash, but this will rely on power to release the central locking as it does in most cars these days.

 

the issue here was that the central locking had been activated before the battery died,  I believe my daughter had got in the car and was answering some work call for a while before attempting to move off, they would have struggled to get into the boot as it was full and there were kiddy seats in the back as well, so much for the “hidden” safety release!

 

the Sun would have a great time with this, as they seem to splash anything true or not in there anti EV stance

[IDD15]

1 hour ago, Tim C said:

 

 

the issue here was that the central locking had been activated before the battery died,  I believe my daughter had got in the car and was answering some work call for a while before attempting to move off, they would have struggled to get into the boot as it was full and there were kiddy seats in the back as well, so much for the “hidden” safety release!

 

the Sun would have a great time with this, as they seem to splash anything true or not in there anti EV stance

Exactly this scenario is what came to mind when I looked it up in the manual! You do wonder what they are thinking at times...

Might still be worth just having the software levels checked by the dealer though. Modern cars are rarely "off" these days and you may have some phantom draw somewhere.

 

You're not wrong about the Sun. They would just ignore the fact that the car is available in both petrol and hybrid versions as well! Still never let the truth get in the way of a good story as they say...

 

Cheers

idd

[Don Fry]

Electric cars, nuclear powered cars, who cares, the thought of being trapped in a car fills me with horror. I think I will explore my diesel box, to see if it opens up with power failure, and if not invest in a glass breaker. 

[Tim C]

Hmm, wonder what the Sun would pay for the story!
 

[Cuban8]

2 hours ago, Tim C said:

I think the 12v battery is not up to task, the cars nearing 2 years, the 12v battery was replaced by Kia after a year after repeated issues with dead car and discharged battery, it seems to have a hard time and was dud after a year, maybe this is happening with the replacement as well, I will get my meter on it and see if retaining a full charge ok.

 

the doors will unlock in a crash, but this will rely on power to release the central locking as it does in most cars these days.

 

the issue here was that the central locking had been activated before the battery died,  I believe my daughter had got in the car and was answering some work call for a while before attempting to move off, they would have struggled to get into the boot as it was full and there were kiddy seats in the back as well, so much for the “hidden” safety release!

 

the Sun would have a great time with this, as they seem to splash anything true or not in there anti EV stance

Happy to be corrected, but I'm sure I saw one of James May's programmes in which he was unable to open the doors of his Tesla because the small 12V backup battery on board had gone flat after the vehicle had been unused for quite some time.

[Tim C]

I saw the YouTube of James locked out his Tesla, getting at the battery in a Tesla a nightmare compared to the Kia.

 

I can see the Suns headline now.

 

Mum and 2 year old locked in EV

[Learner]

4 hours ago, Tim C said:

I think the 12v battery is not up to task, the cars nearing 2 years, the 12v battery was replaced by Kia after a year after repeated issues with dead car and discharged battery, it seems to have a hard time and was dud after a year, maybe this is happening with the replacement as well, I will get my meter on it and see if retaining a full charge ok.

 

the doors will unlock in a crash, but this will rely on power to release the central locking as it does in most cars these days.

 

the issue here was that the central locking had been activated before the battery died,  I believe my daughter had got in the car and was answering some work call for a while before attempting to move off, they would have struggled to get into the boot as it was full and there were kiddy seats in the back as well, so much for the “hidden” safety release!

 

the Sun would have a great time with this, as they seem to splash anything true or not in there anti EV stance

Is there a charging fault? Is there not a system (refresh button  ) that can use the EV battery  for that scenario

[Tim C]

I don’t think there is a charging fault, there is the expected 14v going into the battery once it’s fired up.  There is some form of option to use the main battery for such as camping accessories, to stop discharging the aux 12v but that does not help in this scenario as firing up the main ecu needs 12v in the aux

[Ron Gray]

My Toyota Corolla hybrid had a similar problem, nothing would work if the 12v battery went flat, which it did a few times. It was traced to a faulty battery which was replaced under warranty. I used to keep a 3s LiPo in the boot with which I could energise the system so that it could be started!

[Frank Skilbeck]

From what I have read EVs use the 12v battery to run all the auxillaries and this is charged from the main battery but only when the car is in run mode, as the battery doesn't have to crank an engine but just actuate the main battery some EVs are fitted with a low capacity battery. 

[Trevor]

That's my understanding too, but I admit to not really understanding the design rationale behind this approach. I can see why it would be economical in EVs based on i.c. designs but on vehicles designed from the ground up as EVs, it does seem rather perverse.

[Ron Gray]

All of the ‘ancillary’ equipment, e.g. locks, windows, lights, dash are powered by the 12v battery on my Ioniq 5 and the same for the MG4. There was a problem with some Ioniqs where the battery was draining and then the car wouldn’t start fortunately a software upgrade fixed the problem.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

It’s a simple safety precaution Trevor.  The @400v propulsion battery is isolated from the body electrics.  Everything accessible to the occupants or during normal maintenance tasks runs from 12v and the propulsion battery is totally isolated by 12v operated contactors. 
 

 

[Martin Dance 1]

Well we shall see. My Ioniq is at the dealers workshop today for that very same fault. My car had previously had two 12v batteries replaced, it's now on its third! The car is just over three years old. As for the locking issue. regardless of battery state you should be able to open the drivers door, either inside or out. A few days ago I removed my 12v battery to charge overnight but hadn't locked the car. I was able to lock the rear doors from inside by pressing the lock button on the door. As this must be mechanical I guess it would work the opposite way, unlocking the door.

[john davidson 1]

Seems to be a common fault, one of our members had Ford Kouga hybrid which failed at the field. He is a Ford mechanic and fixed it after I had left, I believe by boosting the secondary 

[Frank Skilbeck]

I suppose normally on an IC car you know when the 12v battery is on the way out as it starts to struggle to turn the engine over, so you get it replaced quickly. The EV should give you a warning that the 12v battery voltage is low so you can get it fixed, but it does seem strange that some of the 12v batteries used are falling off a cliff edge.

 

I'm at the point of giving my IC car a decent run every now and again just to make sure the 12v battery is OK as our small BEV is now doing the bulk of our journeys. If I wasn't filling the fuel can up for the field mower on a regular basis I might forget how to use a petrol pump 😁

[Geoff S]

36 minutes ago, Frank Skilbeck said:

I suppose normally on an IC car you know when the 12v battery is on the way out as it starts to struggle to turn the engine over, so you get it replaced quickly. The EV should give you a warning that the 12v battery voltage is low so you can get it fixed, but it does seem strange that some of the 12v batteries used are falling off a cliff edge.

 

I'm at the point of giving my IC car a decent run every now and again just to make sure the 12v battery is OK as our small BEV is now doing the bulk of our journeys. If I wasn't filling the fuel can up for the field mower on a regular basis I might forget how to use a petrol pump 😁

 

I've had 2 petrol car batteries fail quickly and catastrophically without any warning at all.  There were never any difficult starting issues as was once the case when cold morning slow turnover gave ample warning that a replacement is needed.  Modern car batteries last longer but fail quickly.  I now have an emergency start battery in the tool kit.

[Shaun Walsh]

5 minutes ago, Geoff S said:

 

I've had 2 petrol car batteries fail quickly and catastrophically without any warning at all.  There were never any difficult starting issues as was once the case when cold morning slow turnover gave ample warning that a replacement is needed.  Modern car batteries last longer but fail quickly.  I now have an emergency start battery in the tool kit.

I had a diesel corsa that was a pig to start in winter, battery turned the motor over just fine. Turned out that when the starter motor was turning, the battery voltage dropped to between 9 and 10 volts which wasn't enough to operate the injectors. 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

In the last 10 or 15 years, I’ve encountered several batteries (family and friends’) which have failed internally.  Typical symptoms are failure to crank the engine - jump start - ok for several weeks - repeat.  One was taken to Halfords and pronounced fit for service…”you’ll need to take it to a main dealer (Lexus) to have a new alternator fitted - several hundred pounds”. Luckily I intervened and a replacement battery solved the issue. 

I initially found this on my wife’s car which had had several breakdown call outs while I was unavailable at work. Each time the mechanic told her to get a new alternator. I had my suspicions and had done voltage drop tests to eliminate terminal or earthing issues so when it just clunked one morning I confirmed the battery was fully charged by checking the electrolyte SG but there was virtually no voltage while cranking - confirmed to be internal with voltage drop tests between connectors and posts.  A smart tap on the terminal post restored performance and it then started easily.  Again, a new battery cured the recurring problem. 
 

I assume construction of car batteries has changed over the years as I never came across this sort of behaviour last century. 
 

My own car (MG5) uses what looks like a conventional sized car battery - do the ones with a record of failure use different technology or are they significantly smaller?

[Shaun Walsh]

5 minutes ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

In the last 10 or 15 years, I’ve encountered several batteries (family and friends’) which have failed internally.  Typical symptoms are failure to crank the engine - jump start - ok for several weeks - repeat.  One was taken to Halfords and pronounced fit for service…”you’ll need to take it to a main dealer (Lexus) to have a new alternator fitted - several hundred pounds”. Luckily I intervened and a replacement battery solved the issue. 

I initially found this on my wife’s car which had had several breakdown call outs while I was unavailable at work. Each time the mechanic told her to get a new alternator. I had my suspicions and when it happened while I was at home, I had done voltage drop tests to eliminate terminal or earthing issues and when it just clunked one morning I confirmed the battery was fully charged by checking the electrolyte SG but with virtually no terminal voltage while attempting to start. A smart tap on the terminal post restored performance and it then started easily.  Again, a new battery cured the recurring problem. 
 

I assume construction of car batteries has changed over the years as I never came across this sort of behaviour last century. 
 

My own car (MG5) uses what looks like a conventional sized car battery - do the ones with a record of failure use different technology or are they significantly smaller?

Many years ago the ability of the battery on my Mitsubishi Spacewagon  to start the car depended upon how much you tightened the battery retaining strap. Tighten it too much and it wouldn't start. Compression of the battery appears to have broken an internal connection.

[Frank Skilbeck]

On 08/11/2023 at 19:32, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

 

My own car (MG5) uses what looks like a conventional sized car battery - do the ones with a record of failure use different technology or are they significantly smaller?

 

I think the one in my Mini SE is 20ah whilst the ICE ones 50-70ah

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Quite a difference there - mine is 55 Ah so comparable with an ICE battery. 

[Engine Doctor]

If this is correct ie being locked in in the event of a battery failure then its a serious failing on the part of the  manufacture and the agency that controls auto safety  DVSA .

Its unimaginable that in the case of a fire or crash that a person cannot get out of the car or helpers cannot open the doors to release the occupants . Any system or battery failure should default to being unlocked or at least have easily accessible manual override. 

If and I stress if , cars are  made and sold like this and its  not just a faulty vehicle then its a result of de regulation that's going on in all industries  to maximise profit for the big companies at the expense of the customer/user.

 

As for car battery construction (normal 12v ) they have for years now been getting more and more fragile . In the majority of cases they dont gradually degrade but just stop working even after a test for voltage all ok they wont deliver any meaningful current. The guarantee on a battery I have found  sort of  determines its expected life plus a week or two . Like most stuff these day designed to a price with built in obsolescence.  

[john davidson 1]

My old Saab had a voltage meter which showed voltage on cold starts, a big difference, around two volts between in the garage and outside. Few people garage their cars nowadays ( me included)so must make a difference in battery life?

[Tim Kearsley]

Well I've finally got myself on to Intelligent Octopus Go.  It wasn't easy and I still don't know how I got it working.  Initially, it simply wouldn't make the connection to the car (Tesla Model 3).  Eventually, for no apparent reason, it worked and I completed the test charge.  Next problem - I have set it up to say that I want the car charged to 80% by 0530 tomorrow morning.  After quite a while I had a notification saying that it had created a charging plan.  However, that plan is not visible anywhere in the app, however much I refresh it, stop and start it etc, etc.  My first impressions are that it's all very flaky, to put it mildly.

For the record, the app is running on Android, but I get the same result on my partner's  iPad.

I can see me going back to plain old Go if this unreliability is typical.  We'll see how the charging goes overnight.