CAA registration consulation

[Capt Kremen]

Having completed the CAA consultation document feedback, I observe they are focused solely on how the scheme will operate, charges and covering their costs. They have no regard (or interest) to matters of flight safety and our opinions on how to improve it.

I have no problem with having, for example my BMFA membership number being applied to any of my models should it/my actions result in the model aircraft infringing Gatwick R/W26 and the authorities need to trace me.

Quite a few of our community do not have familiarity or use of IT so how do they conducts their tests?

Echoing many previous comments, the proposals do absolutely nothing to further flight safety of persons, property or aircraft on the ground or in the air. The CAA has very limited resources to enforce existing aviation legislation as is. However, putting this piece of an ever expanding legal jigsaw in place, assists ensuring conviction if anyone is caught and likely invalidate our model insurance if they are not registered.

Oh and I expect to see a grinning, self satisfied Minister/MP (All Parties), stood in front of a TV reporter crowing how stringent measures have now been introduced to curb the menace of rogue 'drone' operations stopping your holiday flight.

Enjoy your flying folks!

[paul coleman 1]

Totally agree capt Kremen,i used to work in the construction industry,masses of H+S Legislation,but yet,theres one death a week in the industry,or used to be,maybe more or less now.needless to say,the way things are going,and reading earlier comments,peolple will eventually leave the hobby,adding to the fact these idiots flying drones,dont give a dam,and ruining it for all of us who pay our way honestly,and fly safely.

[paul coleman 1]

They should of banned them like they were going to,we all saw this coming!

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by paul coleman 1 on 27/04/2019 18:23:57:

They should of banned them like they were going to,we all saw this coming!

Banned who and what ? and how Paul ?

[Jonathan W]

Sooooo...... What about cyclists? How many accidents involve bicylces and how much crime is committed by untraceable people on bicycles? Quite a lot more mayhem in total caused by errant cyclists I should think than caused by "drones". But how many cyclists are registered and insured?

Not that I have anything particular against cyclists, as I do ride one myself. The point is surely valid though.

Edited By Jonathan W on 27/04/2019 18:57:57

[Peter Miller]

Alittle while ago a microlight (Probably a Eurofox) was seen toand on our strip turn round and take off. The observer did not get the registration.

I phoned the CAA the next day and once I had exlained that it was obviously not an forced landing they basically lost interest.

I have since heard of a similar event when one landed and took off from a field headland.

I wonder would any action have been taken if I could have provided a registration. Somehow I get the feeling that they would not have bothered.

[paul coleman 1]

Drones were going to be banned,according to the news headlines,when these incidents occured at airports etc.

[paul coleman 1]

Good point regarding cyclists jonathan,totally agree there,they are another pain at times lol!!

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Maybe I missed that, only seen talk of bans on forums, registering and tightening up on law and regulations is all I recall.

[paul coleman 1]

My local model shop in leeds,well,you wont see a drone hung up in there thats what they think of them,and the shops been established 60 odd years.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Spent a few quid in leeds shop, I'm from Donny, we'll survive.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[paul coleman 1]

Well steve,lets hope the tracking systems work then,and nothing keeps coming back on us.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I've just completed the consultation and although queries have been raised over the question about whether you own a drone have been raised, to me it's clear that for the majority of us, the answer is "No" as a previous section clearly differentiates between drones and model aircraft.

Please select one option to cover your main interest.

(Required) Drone flying as a hobby Commercial drone operator (currently licensed) Commercial drone operation - planning a new business Drone manufacturer Drone retailer Drone racing Model aircraft Local authority Other

For what it's worth, I've made the following comments which might be of use for discussion within the forum and possible consideration by others completing a response:

Registration is unlikely to be reflected in any safety improvement as the users causing problems will fail to comply. Charges for this service are an additional and unnecessary burden on those who are likely to be responsible operators, mostly operating under a controlled club structure.

If airline operators feel that there would be a benefit to their customers (profits) then they should pay a levy for the administration costs of any registration system. Existing and new members of model flying organisations e.g. BMFA, LMA, SAA and FPVUK are already registered with full contact details and have membership numbers which could be imported to any system at minimal cost.

Registration is unlikely to be reflected in any safety improvement as the users causing problems will fail to comply. There should be a minimal or zero charge for members of recognised organisations as they are effectively already registered. Charges for this service are an additional and unnecessary burden on those who are likely to be responsible operators, mostly operating under a controlled club structure. The cost and complication of registration is likely to deter some existing members from continuing in the hobby which will further reduce the potential pool of registrants.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Good post Martin.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Paul Marsh]

I wouldn't even bother, just be ready to send your money and submission in November. The CAA is a closed door system, don't consult anyone, even the BMFA, LMA, just faceless bureaucrats in offices building making rules up as and when they see fit.

The Drone operators in clubs now I reckon are going to be hated more than ever. It happened recently, won't name the club, but one member made it obvious in a email to other club/facebook users that drone users are a menace and should be consigned to Room 101...

[PETER BRUCE - Eastchurch Gap]

Big point.

who do you think has the most clout us mere model flyers or the airlines with their vast industry.

Dont think the CAA will listen to us.🤔

[Martyn K]

The BMFA have specifically requested that we do not use a bulk response. However, here are my responses

Q5: What is your view on the CAA’s proposed charge, in terms of the level and structure of the charge?

I feel that the charge is expensive and poor value for money. For example, Ofcom manage license renewals for (amongst others) Radio Amateurs. A registration process that requires renewal every 5 years and costs the radio operator £0.

I cannot understand why an annual re-registration is required. The status change for most hobbyist UAV pilots is that they will either fly or not. If they give up the hobby they will simply cease to fly. A 5 year registration process would be adequate.

I can however see a need for commercial UAV annual registration.

This appears to be an exercise in bureaucracy, almost a way of trying to justify the reason for the registration process and appears to bring very little value either in terms of education , safety or culprit apprehension.

Model flyers have demonstrated an excellent safety record over the past (almost) 100 years. The fact is that the registration process, while I can understand the necessity in light of recent multi copter incidents, will not prevent further illegal operation and is more likely - especially with the annual cost - that this registration system will simply be ignored by a great many operators which ultimately means that those law abiding users will pick up the cost.

Your question 4 above "Do you already own a drone?" is again misleading. Do you mean multi copter, Model Aircraft or what? Why have you not used the agreed terminology of UAV is to cover all unmanned aerial vehicles? The correct definition for drone is a monotonous sound.

Q6: Do you have alternative ideas about how the CAA could cover the costs of running the registration scheme?
Yes

Import membership data from existing model flying and other UAV national bodies.
This does not need an expensive front end or support organisation. It is a simple registration scheme. The only question is whether a user needs to be registered
and can this be proven on demand

Q7: Are the CAA’s estimated volumes appropriate for the make-up of drone operators in the UK, based on existing sources of data and your own observations?

Your estimate of 170,000 users over 18 months seems high and could be misleading. Assuming that the 4 national bodies have 45,000 users (rounded up) and who dutifully register on the 1/11/2019, they will then re-register 12 months later. Does your estimate of 170,000 include these double counted members. In either case, where will the other 125,000 (or 80,000) registration come from? If this is based on multi copter sales then this appears to be highly optimistic as many will have purchased/tried/crashed/got bored/given up.

Many multi copter pilots are also Model Aircraft pilots and there is further scope for double counting. I can see where the model flyers are, I have no visibility of these other UAV (multi copter) pilots which according to your estimate outnumber Model Aircraft pilots by a factor of 3.

--

If you haven't already, please respond but keep your comments constructive to demonstrate we are ALL responsible UAV operators here.

Thanks

Martyn

[GONZO]

If you don't fly over the winter why register on 1/11/2019????

[sticky fingers]

Just a thought gents, has anyone from the retail sector been made aware of the proposed legislation ,or made any comment in regard to their future, food for thought ,or is UK insignificant in the world of model flying

[Kim Taylor]

I've filled in the form and made appropriate comments as outlined by many above.

But the point is, this isn't a consultation in anything but name. It's a done deal, like it or lump it.

Our best chance is that the BMFA (who, it appears, seem to have been kept out of the loop) can somehow drag the CAA back to the EASA position that membership of a national body is sufficient to satisfy their requirements.

I won't be holding my breath!!!

My thinking is that our efficient and reliable Minister for Transport (or whatever title he answers to) has thumped the table and demanded action to justify his existence. Why else would this not have been discussed with the BMFA during their recent negotiations regarding the height limits and no fly zones.

Kim

[John Stainforth]

These regulations are following the USA with a typical time lag.

Any model in the US weighing more than 0.55 pounds has to be registered with the FAA and is regarded as a "drone".

The biggest difference with the US is the cost. Registration with the FAA costs $5 for three years!

[Former Member]

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[cymaz]

Posted by Percy Verance on 27/04/2019 16:49:02:

I'm seriously considering changing my surname to Google. I shan't pay as much tax then.......

It’s Mr Amazon now !