Former Member Posted April 29, 2019 Author Share Posted April 29, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Perhaps it comes down to the CAA being told to find a million quid down the back of the sofa (and a rabbit in a hat) for this registration scheme, because, "user pays" law, and the government have said so. Did the CAA come up with this scheme in the first place? I'm unfamiliar with its origins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 I know and appreciate that many are working hard on our behalf to get across to those who have come up with this scheme that it's flawed and needs a rethink. Perhaps we could do with a well known personality to speak out for us and give some extra clout to what's gone on so far? Thinking about aeromodelling on TV fairly recently, maybe people like James May or James Holland might be persuaded to give their support to our cause. Perhaps a phone call from our BMFA PR officer along the right channels might be a start? Edited By Cuban8 on 30/04/2019 11:49:21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Green2 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Would twitter be a good place to raise this? Steve Baker MP (an Aero grad before parliament) is active on there as are many MPs (Grayling isn't). Maybe some spent time in our hobby in their youth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymond Scrivens Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 I am also a radio amateur and there is an good precedent here. All "hams" have to have a licence issued by OFCOM and need to have passed a qualifying exam to get one. This is an international requirement and is very necessary because misuse of a radio transmitter can cause interference with all sorts of communication. Someone with malicious intent could shut down Garwick with a rogue transmitter just as easily as with a drone. Now here's the interesting bit. OFCOM issues licences for amateur radio free of charge and all that is required is for them to be revalidated online every 5 years. OFCOM mandates the national society, the Radio Society of Great Britain (RSGB), to run the qualifying exams. Most radio amateurs are members of the RSGB in much the same way as model fliers are members of the BMFA. OFCOM takes a positive view of amateur radio as a means of encouraging interest and experimentation in radio communication. It's a pity that the CAA doesn't seem to take such a positive view of model aircraft. As another comment, how is it that the CAA say that they cannot discriminate in the legislation between drones and model aircraft but then ask in their consultation whether we are drone or model aircraft fliers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Posted by Nigel R on 30/04/2019 10:50:00: Perhaps it comes down to the CAA being told to find a million quid down the back of the sofa (and a rabbit in a hat) for this registration scheme, because, "user pays" law, and the government have said so. Did the CAA come up with this scheme in the first place? I'm unfamiliar with its origins. 'User pays' Perhaps it should be the beneficiaries who pay as well, or at least contribute to the cost of the registration scheme. BALPA have been very vociferous calling for a 'drone register' as have various airline groups like Airlines UK, Airport Operators Association. Perhaps NATS and the BAA would like to throw something into the hat too as there will clearly be a safety benefit! Then what about all the private companies that stand to benefit, like Altitude Angle with their Guardian UTM. Clearly there is big money to be made from drones so maybe it would be fairer if those with self interest and deep pockets to saddle some of the cost. Seems a bit unfair to expect mostly (pensioner) aero-modellers to pay for it all, especially when they are already registered with the BMFA! Edited By Piers Bowlan on 30/04/2019 13:47:52 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Posted by Steve J on 30/04/2019 13:55:17: Posted by Piers Bowlan on 30/04/2019 13:45:44: Clearly there is big money to be made from drones so maybe it would be fairer if those with self interest and deep pockets to saddle some of the cost. In the letter that I sent to my MP on this subject, I said that as they are putting a registration system in place primarily because it is a U-space foundation service and the government thinks that there are jobs and economic growth in commercial unmanned aircraft, then the Treasury should pay out of general taxation. Steve Those of us who have read the documentation from the CAA, government and EASA over the last 3-4 years all know that is the real driver here, but I I am still certain they will deny that and ring the familiar refrain of "it's all for safety, pure and simple" - that plays better with Daily Mail readers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Do the Mail buyers read it or throw in the bin, ala BMFA news ? I read many papers online, know thine enemy, as the saying goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roo Hawkins Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Regards the so called safety test has anyone seen the questions that might be on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Prop Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 They will probably want to know if you are LGBT. Edited By Broken Prop on 30/04/2019 17:26:44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Christy Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 I received a fairly bland and unhelpful reply from my MP, so I wrote back pointing this out. All that did was provoke a further bland and unhelpful response. The only thing she seems interested in is justifying her change of stance on Brexit after she was elected. I suspect she won't be back after the next election.... On the other hand, I received a very positive response from the APPG-GA, as pointed to by Martyn. They say they are working closely with the BMFA on this, but make the point that the more people who respond to the consultation, the better. So get writing, folks. To be fair to the CAA, I suspect they know all this already, but have received orders from higher up. This has "Failing Grayling's" fingerprints all over it. Having said that, the excuse that "We were only obeying orders" was discredited some 70 years ago. Perhaps they need reminding of that.... -- Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Walsh Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Posted by Broken Prop on 30/04/2019 17:25:50: They will probably want to know if you are LGBT. Edited By Broken Prop on 30/04/2019 17:26:44 50 years ago LGBT was a fancy sandwich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevejet66 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 So in a nutshell does this mean we will have to pay a fee and also take a test to ensure we are safe to fly model aircraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Yer put a gerkin in it, o, I am distraught 😭 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Dilly 1 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 This might be of interest: https://www.digitalmarketplace.service.gov.uk/digital-outcomes-and-specialists/opportunities/7463 Contract for the registration scheme awarded in November, despite the fact that discussions were continuing with the BMFA. A case of left hand/right hand, a cock up or political skulduggery. You choose. It's only £87,000 of your money, so that's alright... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Posted by stevejet66 on 30/04/2019 19:10:14: So in a nutshell does this mean we will have to pay a fee and also take a test to ensure we are safe to fly model aircraft. You will have to pay a fee and also take a test to ensure that you comply with the legislation. Safe flight has little to do with it. Edited By Martin Harris on 30/04/2019 19:43:59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McIntosh Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 What can they do about it if we all refuse to register? Nothing. Think about that. About time that we stood up to these jobsworths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Posted by Martin McIntosh on 30/04/2019 19:45:51: What can they do about it if we all refuse to register? Nothing. Think about that. About time that we stood up to these jobsworths. Or picket the CAA offices. Long Live the Revolution!!! Edited By Paul Marsh on 30/04/2019 19:48:22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickw Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Posted by Martin McIntosh on 30/04/2019 19:45:51: What can they do about it if we all refuse to register? Nothing. Think about that. About time that we stood up to these jobsworths. It would only take a few large fines to test our resolve, and I am sure that would be worth it from their point of view. Lets face it, one trip to a random club by the police would be all that it would take. From CAP1775:- 1.2 All those in the UK operating drones or model aircraft between 250 grams and 20 kilograms must register by the end of November 2019. From the same period, remote pilots will be required to take an online safety test. Failure to comply with these rules could lead to a fine of £1,000. Just repairing my under 250 gm model. Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 In the end, I did do the CAA thing, but know it will get lost in cyberspace. Also, If a join the LMA and fly models over 20kg, do I need to register...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Miles 2 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 The view from New Zealand. Well worth listening to what this chap has to say! https://youtu.be/Lha_puQpOus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Jumping forward a bit, if this travesty actually goes through, I presume that it'll be incumbent upon clubs to satisfy themselves that their members and any visitors to their site are suitably registered and have passed the on-line multiple guess questions. As it'll be an offence to operate a model aircraft over 250g without the necessary official rubber stamp, I suppose this will void BMFA insurance with all the ramifications that that will throw up for the club. More work for us membership secretaries? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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