Is the hobby dying/dead

[Tim Flyer]

No way is the hobby dying or dead. Our club has plenty of new membership enquiries plus a healthy waiting list . We are a fixed wing club too . The advent of relatively cheap foam models has made entry level model flying easier than ever.

If we allowed new multi rotor flyer members we would have a huge waiting list. Model flying tends to involve the older generation who have more time on their hands but I don’t see that as a problem.

The important thing for clubs is enough publicity. We have a good website webcam and presence on Facebook and instagram. As we are in Hertfordshire near London, there is also a fairly large local population which obviously helps.

Edited By Tim Flyer on 23/01/2021 15:14:42

[Nightflyer]

I would not say that the hobby is dead or even dying, it is evolving like it has always done over time, and is a reflection of how life, technologies, and innovation makes an impact. Yes there are far fewer model shops today and fewer flyers, but then the world is different and there are far more distractions today.

When I started out most newbies of my age either started building free flight models, rubber, jetex or gliders to start and either moved on to control line or some started with control line. RC was still relatively new but was growing with increasingly reliable gear. Then we saw more people start to come into the hobby as newbies starting off with rc models. At the time originally it was more of a case that people built models, but as the ARTF options started to grow it did open up the hobby to others with less inclination or time to build their aircraft.

As far as learning to fly is concerned I have taught a number of people but possibly advances in rc gear in some respects make it easier in installation and set up on the one hand can also be misleading and confusing to less technically minded people. Maybe for newcomers the transmitter set ups might be too complicated for some (although the typical techy teenager will still find it easy enough).

The hobby will survive and will still attract newcomers but there is no denying there are more hurdles for the newcomer to negotiate before becoming a competent pilot these days. The model industry does have its challenges and there may be fewer model shops than 10 or 20 years ago but there will still be shops, but most of those will likely offer online shopping to survive. At the same time new legislation does seem to make it harder to give potential newcomers experience, but the true model pilot will persist and of course if supported by model flying clubs will become competent.

[Paul Marsh]

Luckily I've got a good stock of IC engines and aircraft to keep me going for a while. Next year, when the shows start up again and the swap meets, might get some more. Think 2021 will be the same, or worse than 2020

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

Posted by Nightflyer on 23/01/2021 18:20:05:

At the same time new legislation does seem to make it harder to give potential newcomers experience, but the true model pilot will persist and of course if supported by model flying clubs will become competent.

I have to pull you up on that, new legislation really hasn't made it more difficult to give newcomers experience, they newcomers don't have to do anything until they get to the point of coming off the buddy lead.

It's actually never been easier to get involved, reliable radio equipment is cheap and readily available, aircraft that can be in the air in a very short time are cheap and readily available too.

We really need to stop the suggestions that the hurdles to participation are high, they really really aren't, they are as small if not smaller than they have ever been.

[Roger Jones 3]

Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 23/01/2021 20:24:35:

 

I have to pull you up on that, new legislation really hasn't made it more difficult to give newcomers experience, they newcomers don't have to do anything until they get to the point of coming off the buddy lead.

It's actually never been easier to get involved, reliable radio equipment is cheap and readily available, aircraft that can be in the air in a very short time are cheap and readily available too.

We really need to stop the suggestions that the hurdles to participation are high, they really really aren't, they are as small if not smaller than they have ever been.

That's all good in theory but it's unrealistic.

1) With the closure of so many small 'local' model shops you have to buy online from a limited number of suppliers. So a first time 'spur of the moment' purchase inspired by a nice picture on a box just doesn't happen. EG: In an effort to 'educate' me in the late 1950's my mother used to take me to a small private library, there being no public library in the area. It sold model plane kits too and my mother bought me one. I have been doing it ever since. But that doesn't happen any more.

2) Nor does the chance to be inspired to see a model plane flying. You have to seek out an often largely  'commercial' display and pay to get in, Or find them by chance flying  in some remote and often bleak area.

3) Now the starting point is usually RC. That's MUCH more expensive than a KeilKraft Ajax and a bottle of clear dope was.

3) Today they mostly start with ARTF's, which are often foamies.  One crash and it's the last you see of them.

4) You have to learn to fly RC. We could do that by ourself on a friendly farmers field or most 'out of town' public spaces. It was easy too because of our previous rubber/small diesel free flight and control line experience.

5) The need for insurance (which we never thought about in that far less legalistic world where 99% plus of the population had never even spoken to a solicitor), a CAA certificate, 'training' with a buddy box and a bloke willing to teach you and many clubs requiring a BMFA 'A' ticket,  are all OBSTRUCTIONS, not easements.

Edited By Roger Jones 3 on 24/01/2021 09:45:17

[leccyflyer]

The chance of an impulse buy of a flying model that will actually fly is much higher these days than previously. The traditional (as in past 30 years way) of having to go to a model shop, buy a kit, an engine, a set of radio gear. spend a couple of months building the kit, finding a club field and learning to fly with a .40 sized trainer, with or without a buddy box. In contrast today- guy sees You Tube video of model flying, thinks -"That looks cool" - googles for models, finds an ebay listing and clicks Buy It Now and a few days later has a flyable model that he can take to his local park with a chance that he will be able to get it in the air.

Now if he's doing it properly he will have insurance, BMFA membership, CAA registration etc- for which all the information is a mouse click away - but intrinsically the ease of getting a flyable model into the air quickly is much improved over the months of building a traditional model aeroplane. The more modern trainers are stable enough and with the technological aids available such that a buddy box is not a necessity and the chances of learning outwith a club environment is massively improved by the existence of these models.

[Peter Jones 21]

Posted by Roger Jones 3 on 24/01/2021 09:38:37:

Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 23/01/2021 20:24:35:

I have to pull you up on that, new legislation really hasn't made it more difficult to give newcomers experience, they newcomers don't have to do anything until they get to the point of coming off the buddy lead.

It's actually never been easier to get involved, reliable radio equipment is cheap and readily available, aircraft that can be in the air in a very short time are cheap and readily available too.

We really need to stop the suggestions that the hurdles to participation are high, they really really aren't, they are as small if not smaller than they have ever been.

That's all good in theory but it's unrealistic.

1) With the closure of so many small 'local' model shops you have to buy online from a limited number of suppliers. So a first time 'spur of the moment' purchase inspired by a nice picture on a box just doesn't happen. EG: In an effort to 'educate' me in the late 1950's my mother used to take me to a small private library, there being no public library in the area. It sold model plane kits too and my mother bought me one. I have been doing it ever since. But that doesn't happen any more.

2) Nor does the chance to be inspired to see a model plane flying. You have to seek out an often largely 'commercial' display and pay to get in, Or find them by chance flying in some remote and often bleak area.

3) Now the starting point is usually RC. That's MUCH more expensive than a KeilKraft Ajax and a bottle of clear dope was.

3) Today they mostly start with ARTF's, which are often foamies. One crash and it's the last you see of them.

4) You have to learn to fly RC. We could do that by ourself on a friendly farmers field or most 'out of town' public spaces. It was easy too because of our previous rubber/small diesel free flight and control line experience.

5) The need for insurance (which we never thought about in that far less legalistic world where 99% plus of the population had never even spoken to a solicitor), a CAA certificate, 'training' with a buddy box and a bloke willing to teach you and many clubs requiring a BMFA 'A' ticket, are all OBSTRUCTIONS, not easements.

Edited By Roger Jones 3 on 24/01/2021 09:45:17

You are quite right in everything you say, but against that we never had things like Youtube and the very well accepted channels like Flite test, we have youngsters pitch up at the Southampton Club indoor flying sessions with these very rudimentary designs which you and I could really identify with from our youth, often being made from recycled materials and they get on and fly, these smart youngsters hardly need any flight training, just guidance on safety etc.

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

Posted by leccyflyer on 24/01/2021 09:50:11:

The chance of an impulse buy of a flying model that will actually fly is much higher these days than previously. The traditional (as in past 30 years way) of having to go to a model shop, buy a kit, an engine, a set of radio gear. spend a couple of months building the kit, finding a club field and learning to fly with a .40 sized trainer, with or without a buddy box. In contrast today- guy sees You Tube video of model flying, thinks -"That looks cool" - googles for models, finds an ebay listing and clicks Buy It Now and a few days later has a flyable model that he can take to his local park with a chance that he will be able to get it in the air.

Now if he's doing it properly he will have insurance, BMFA membership, CAA registration etc- for which all the information is a mouse click away - but intrinsically the ease of getting a flyable model into the air quickly is much improved over the months of building a traditional model aeroplane. The more modern trainers are stable enough and with the technological aids available such that a buddy box is not a necessity and the chances of learning outwith a club environment is massively improved by the existence of these models.

Spot on

[leccyflyer]

Not forgetting that for some of us - the chaps with 50-60 years of modelling behind them, in the late 60's you still needed a GPO licence to operate a radio control set and it was a long way from plug and play. Many folks had to learn the hard way, through build, short flight, crash, repair, another short flight and crash.It was significantly harder to get a model flying in those days. It was fun and character building, but those days are gone and the opportunities to get into the hobby with successful flights are much improved these days.

The issue is with the desire to do so and the time available, such are the conflicting myriad of alternative interests and the pressures on our limited leisure time. If it wasn't for ARTFs and those widely reviled foamies the hobby amongst the younger, relatively cash rich, free time poor, flyers might not be viable- they simple do not have the time, when starting out in the hobby, to spend months getting to the point of that first flight. For the retired, they have the luxury of that free time and can choose a more traditional way - I'd suggest that returnees to the hobby might benefit greatly from the new technology available to put some wind under their wings first though, At least something to consider.

[Phil McCavity]

Posted by leccyflyer on 24/01/2021 09:50:11:

The chance of an impulse buy of a flying model that will actually fly is much higher these days than previously. The traditional (as in past 30 years way) of having to go to a model shop, buy a kit, an engine, a set of radio gear. spend a couple of months building the kit, finding a club field and learning to fly with a .40 sized trainer, with or without a buddy box. In contrast today- guy sees You Tube video of model flying, thinks -"That looks cool" - googles for models, finds an ebay listing and clicks Buy It Now and a few days later has a flyable model that he can take to his local park with a chance that he will be able to get it in the air.

This is precisely what happened with our newest enquiry, a young fella in his shorts and hoody with his max power corsa pulled up at the field and asked about joining, whilst the chairman went off to get him the details I asked him what maodel he had, he said it was one he saw on youtube and showed it to me on his smartphone (it was a look-alike SR71 which could land and take off on water as well as on land), he told me he'd taken it to the local park and crashed it a couple of times within minutes so was fed up and wanted to learn to fly it properly. Unfortunately the joining fee put him off joining (ours is rather high).

[Cuban8]

As a kid in the 60s, I remember the frustration of only having one very small and under stocked model shop in the town where we lived and help being non-existent. Even the 'open field with long grass' that you were commanded to find in kit instructions for trimming flights didn't exist locally, and my poorly built, warped, wrongly balanced attempts at building finished up wrecked on a football pitch or sports ground. I'd go and buy an Airfix kit from the corner shop and when that was finished, my disappointment with the wrecked Keil Kraft kit would be gone and I'd try again......with very few successes TBH. I did used to buy the occasional Aeromodeller, but as it was far too advanced and technical in its scope and not of much use to a ten years old.

Many kids did have success, especially if their dad or uncle was interested, they were particularly talented or if flying activity was to be seen at a local club. I never had those advantages, but it never put me off for some reason and eventually things did work out when i got older.

The point I'm making is that the 'golden years' weren't always so good, given the availability of modelling products wasn't always on the lines of how we like to remember and could be very expensive indeed for pocket money budgets.

Roger mentions the 'obstructions' to starting the hobby these days, and although they are an irritant to some, a new comer to the hobby will accept them, fill in the forms etc etc and get on with it because they don't know any different.

Try looking at what you have to do to get a motorbike licence these days if you are a youngster; in my opinion as a returnee to two wheels (with a full licence taken back in '74) it's totally OTT and starting in model flying is a piece of cake in comparison.

I really don't think that the problems that we have in facing a declining and aging membership in the hobby have much to do with access, cost, bureaucracy etc etc but more along the lines of a lack of wonder at things that fly and the dream of emulating that miracle, albeit in model form. What attraction is there for a primary age school kid to want to build a flying model of any sort? It can appear a bit passe compared to the fantasic virtual worlds of Gaming.Those of us from the 50s and 60s were well versed in the exploits of the WW1 and WW2 Aces from their stories that were to be found in comics and to some extent on childrens' TV. Aviation was the 'in thing' and the names of test pilots and record breakers were as well known as many top sportsmen of the time

Kids are just not exposed to that sort of thing these days and the desire to have your own mini Spitfire or racer has more or less faded away unless the child comes from an environment where it still lingers. Radio control was a dream at the end of the rainbow for many of us (fueled by the comic strip General Jumbo) but everything now is wireless and automatic etc so lacks the magic that we seeked and desired to copy in model form.

It's good that we promote the hobby as as we do - BMFA, clubs and others are to be praised for waving the flag on social media and elsewhere as much as possible and obviously some seed sown will thrive, but you can't make people like model aircraft, we don't have the clout,marketing and hype of mainstream sport, gaming or whatever else.

 

 

Edited By Cuban8 on 24/01/2021 11:35:37

[Phil McCavity]

Posted by Cuban8 on 24/01/2021 11:17:06:.

I really don't think that the problems that we have in facing a declining and aging membership in the hobby have much to do with access, cost, bureaucracy etc etc but more along the lines of a lack of wonder at things that fly and the dream of emulating that miracle, albeit in model form. What attraction is there for a primary age school kid to want to build a flying model of any sort? It can appear a bit passe compared to the fantasic virtual worlds of Gaming.Those of us from the 50s and 60s were well versed in the exploits of the WW1 and WW2 Aces from their stories that were to be found in comics and to some extent on childrens' TV. Aviation was the 'in thing' and the names of test pilots and record breakers were as well known as many top sportsmen of the time

Kids are just not exposed to that sort of thing these days and the desire to have your own mini Spitfire or racer has more or less faded away unless the child comes from an environment where it still lingers. Radio control was a dream at the end of the rainbow for many of us (fueled by the comic strip General Jumbo) but everything now is wireless and automatic etc so lacks the magic that we seeked and desired to copy in model form.

Edited By Cuban8 on 24/01/2021 11:35:37

I think you've hit the nail on the head here.

[leccyflyer]

Good post.

I wonder why this thread wasn't showing up in the Latest Posts tag? It seems that it is now, but it wasn't earlier this morning.

Edited By leccyflyer on 24/01/2021 11:51:33

[Lima Hotel Foxtrot]

Posted by Tony H on 24/06/2020 10:22:41:

Hi All,

I have been in this hobby for years, it seems to me that the hobby is on its last legs with maybe a year or two left in it. I see IC engines have almost no demand and are barely being sold, model shops are going out of business all over and the stock levels are awful compared to the past.

What are your thoughts? I am concerned for the RC hobby as a whole, I can't see it lasting

Is it due to the new CAA Regulations? and costs?

"Is the hobby dying/dead?"

Only for those who insist on living in the past.

[Peter Jones 21]

Posted by Lima Hotel Foxtrot on 24/01/2021 12:42:02:

Posted by Tony H on 24/06/2020 10:22:41:

Hi All,

I have been in this hobby for years, it seems to me that the hobby is on its last legs with maybe a year or two left in it. I see IC engines have almost no demand and are barely being sold, model shops are going out of business all over and the stock levels are awful compared to the past.

What are your thoughts? I am concerned for the RC hobby as a whole, I can't see it lasting

Is it due to the new CAA Regulations? and costs?

"Is the hobby dying/dead?"

Only for those who insist on living in the past.

Agreed the hobby has a great future but it will not be a replica of the 1950's to 1980's period for better or worse.

My Grandfather flew 'A' frame free flight models, the CL and RC models I flew first off in the 1970's were as far removed from the 'A' frames, as modern models are from the 1980's.

Time moves on there is nothing that can be done, embrace the change and make the best of it.

[Dwain Dibley.]

"Is the hobby dying/dead?"

Only for those who insist on living in the past.

I sort of half agree with that statement.

Kids and young adults today, buy a little Heli that says I will take off on my own, and when it doesn't they get all miffed, and that's the end of them.

The difference between them and us old lags is we have the experience to get these things to work, as proven in a thread re the Ninja 250.

We need to move on and embrace technology, that a lot of the time needs past experience to get the most out of it.

Nothing flies on it's own, the human input is what counts and is usually the most interesting bit.

So if we get the kids in the clubs and the things they bring work with our help, we have a future, I personally promote my hobby wherever I go, and hope for the best.

D.D.

Past +Present = Good Fun.

[SIMON CRAGG]

Keeping in mind the present lockdown, and all the rubbish we have endured over the past year, we have only "lost" five members. Two were social members and the other three gone to a club which has 24/7 flying times. So far, this year we have gained one new member, with several mothers on hold until we are back to "normal". The Committee are in touch every week via Zoom, we have an active "Phorum", and an occasional quiz. I believe all the above helps tremendously in keeping all on board during this trying time. Most inquiries have come via the BMFA club finder, which has proved to be excellent, and coupled to our up to date club website. New members are talked through the CAA and other new procedures without difficulty. Its a great time to get into the hobby!. 2.4 gear is excellent, foamy models and Lipos have come a long way. There are some brilliant trainers out there. The second hand market is flooded with ic models just waiting to be converted to electric!.

The chances of success are much, much better these days.

Remember back in the eighties, spending six months building / painting the Galaxy ME109. The engine and gear were never that reliable, and in the end (although I enjoyed building it), I sold it on as I was worried about pranging it.

These days, straightforward to purchase a good foamy, appear at the field, plug in Lipo, and do what we love most.................FLY and have FUN!.

We will all be getting the vaccine shortly, Spring is coming.........whats not to like?.

[leccyflyer]

I think we've had at least three new club members in the last 18 months - one brand new young chap with one of those EFlite Apprentice trainers who is doing great with some gentle instruction, no buddy lead IIRC, though we've only met a few times - and two returnees, both of whom post to this forum.

The lockdown has curtailed my flying this year- and I've also moved 90 minutes further away from the club field - so I haven't seen as much of these guys as I would have liked, but they all seem very keen.

[Gary Manuel]

Posted by SIMON CRAGG on 24/01/2021 13:08:18:

Keeping in mind the present lockdown, and all the rubbish we have endured over the past year, we have only "lost" five members. Two were social members and the other three gone to a club which has 24/7 flying times. So far, this year we have gained one new member, with several mothers on hold until we are back to "normal".

Are you hoping that the fathers will pay the ransom to secure their release?

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Hobbies been at "Deaths door" since I wor a lad (a long time ago) it's still here, times change, folk adapt.

[i12fly]

A big issue for a small club is with juniors. We had a youngster, aged 14 I think, very interested in flying and came a few times with mother and progressing ok. Mother then wanted to leave child during visits and pick up later. This was a problem as with possibly only a couple of members present or even one, no-one was prepared to take the risk of being left alone to look after a child, however slight the risk. Mother said not acceptable for her to be there so that was the end of that.

So it seems we have to attract adults, or parents if their children are interested.

It is even more difficult that people are classed as children up to 18

How times change, when I was 17 if anyone had called me a child I would probably have clouted them (not really but I would have been very annoyed and unforgiving). From age 14, I and my friends considered ourselves to be grown up, could look after ourselves, alone if we wished.

[Phil McCavity]

That's a very good point made there and a significant example where "living in the past" was better.

Edited By Phil McCavity on 24/01/2021 16:19:34

[i12fly]

Posted by Gary Manuel on 24/01/2021 15:26:43:

Posted by SIMON CRAGG on 24/01/2021 13:08:18:

Keeping in mind the present lockdown, and all the rubbish we have endured over the past year, we have only "lost" five members. Two were social members and the other three gone to a club which has 24/7 flying times. So far, this year we have gained one new member, with several mothers on hold until we are back to "normal".

Are you hoping that the fathers will pay the ransom to secure their release?

Are but you forget that parthenogenisis seems to be the modern trend, or something like that. No fathers involved

[Stuart Z]

Bearing in mind the almost no flying in the last year I don’t blame shops for keeping low stocks. Interesting to note though that new engines are appearing on the market from Just Engines the SH and the Force brand in SMC spring to mind as examples of smaller engines, plus the OS range. Plenty of second hand stuff as well on your favourite app.

S

[SIMON CRAGG]

OOoops, my bad.....should be "with several daughters on hold", or something like that!