Dambusters

[Martin McIntosh]

With the last episode just watched I was very impressed with the treatment of the raid, far outclassing anything previously aired.

I was rather young when the film came out and it left a lasting impression on me. I then discovered that my father had a paperback copy of Paul Brickhill`s book in which the dams raid only took up about the first quarter, the rest concerning the Tallboy, Grand Slam, mechanical computerised bomb sights and of course the sinking of the Tirpitz. I read it at least three times and recently managed to get another copy which is out on loan.

The film makers and author had to guess at many details such as the actual shape of the mines because due to the secrecy act the true information was not released until 1993.

[Former Member]

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[Stuart Quinn-Harvie 1]

Frankly, if you want to tell it "Like it is" the dog's name is as nothing compared to the outright obfuscations, distortions and straight up untruths in the original film. If it's going to make your blood boil to change the dog's name but it's perfectly all right to credit Gibson with thinking up the idea of the spotlights, you might want to have a think about what's important.

As anyone who has read Gibson's memoir knows, he was no "Hail Fellow Well met" as portrayed by the film: he was a warrior, a bloody good one and one determined to persue that calling.  The bombs were still top secret when it was made, and so are incorrect and as has been pointed out there are other distortions. These are distortions of MOMENT, of IMPORT. It MATTERS who came up with one of the ideas that made the raid possible. It MATTERS that a determination to approach the war as something that must be prosecuted determinedly and without care for the niceties of life, not treated like a good old Jolly. It doesn't matter whether someone changes the name of the dog as long as that changed name is still used as a codeword.

 

 

 

 

Edited By Stuart Quinn-Harvie 1 on 04/12/2020 00:28:19

Edited By Stuart Quinn-Harvie 1 on 04/12/2020 00:29:53

[Toni Reynaud]

We parked our motorhome a mile or so from the Mohne Dam a few years ago. We cycled around and across the dam and I was intrigued to find that there is a Dambusters Museum near the southern end of the dam. Time heals a lot, when those on the receiving end of that event allow such a place to be established.

[leccyflyer]

I have a tremendous amount of respect for Max Hastings and will get his book for what I am sure was a great read, based on the reviews here. I think that the one thing that the programme glossed over somewhat is that, in terms of achieving what was intended, namely closing down the Ruhr, the ultimate results of the raid fell far short of that.

One small segment of the programme featuring Hastings mentioned that and correctly identified that further raids on the repair works might have ultimately yielded those results. Such raids on the repairs need not have been using the Upkeep bombs, or methods, since high altitude "precision" bombing may have been effective.

The nonsense about the dog's name crops up every single time the film is mentioned. You could set your calendar by it.

[Colin Leighfield]

In a programme like this there’s bound to be some “glossing-over” because of time restrictions but at least the failure to follow up is brought out for the first time publicly. Hastings’ book covers it at length and it reveals how Harris’s flaws were probably the key factor in failing to recognise the strategic importance of sustaining the pressure on the Möhne by conventional follow-up raids to suppress the re-construction.
I don’t think we can blame Dan for not bringing in the dog’s name, he wouldn’t have been allowed to. However Hastings doesn’t flinch from it in the book and sets it in the context of the time. He also makes clear how massive the damage really was, the Germans called it the “Möhne Katastrophe” for good reason. If the RAF had disrupted or prevented the re-construction then the sustained consequences on German industry would have been far greater.
The deep feelings aroused in my by the sheer courage and sacrifices of these young men remain with me. Of the 77 that came back only 48 survived the war, including the 3 who were POWs. This is a profound story in so many ways, it rightfully lingers on.

[Peter Miller]

Talking of the bomb causing damage if the aircraft was too low. How many of you have seen the film of the American twin engined bomber where the bomb bounced and took the entire tail of the aircraft?

[J D 8]

At my local airfield, Withybush Pembrokeshire there is on display outside the caff a Mosquito dropped Highball [ inert ] that was recovered from a field next to an old railway tunnel [ disused even in the 40's ] that was the target for experimental use of the weapon to see if the Highball could be delivered down the tunnel.

Some must have gone down the tunnel as there are impressive chunks out of the brickwork.

Martin, I recon the true shape of the mine came much sooner as my plastic kit Revell Dambuster had the right shape and was made in the 60's

Plus 1 on Paul Brickhill's book, a great read.

Seen that film of an American aircraft dropping a bouncing bomb to low,  A Martin Marauder I think.

Edited By J D 8 on 04/12/2020 08:52:58

[Maurice Dyer]

Stood next to one of the dummy bombs at East Kirkby when I went riding in Just Jane.

What an immense undertaking, and what heroes of Britain's Greatest Generation. It always makes me smile when I hear people today saying they are so stressed out because their mobile/facebook/ account has froze or their internet keeps freezing........!

Real men. Thank you.

Maury

[GrumpyGnome]

I thought it was excellent. Not perfect, but close.

Anyone know what Dan S was in ? I think it was a Diamond Aircraft design but cannot find one that looks the same...

GG

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Colin Carpenter]

Either a DA 42 or 62. Not sure which.

[John Lee]

Posted by GrumpyGnome on 04/12/2020 09:10:17:

I thought it was excellent. Not perfect, but close.

Anyone know what Dan S was in ? I think it was a Diamond Aircraft design but cannot find one that looks the same...

GG

I think it was a Diamond DA42 M-NG operated by DEA Aviation Ltd who are based at Gamston Airfield.

[GrumpyGnome]

Cheers John,

an interesting shape!

GG

[maurice northcott]

Posted by J D 8 on 04/12/2020 08:48:32:

Seen that film of an American aircraft dropping a bouncing bomb to low, A Martin Marauder I think.

 

Close JD, it was an A-26 not a B-26. Douglas A-26 Invader. Happened in the US with I think a US copy of a Highball weapon.....

Edited By maurice northcott on 04/12/2020 11:07:34

[Martin McIntosh]

SQ-H, in the 1955 film the dog`s name was correct, not changed, just edited out in the PC version shown these days. Even BofB now has some language edited to keep the snowflakes happy.

I doubt if they would have known the designer of the bombsight then, so it simply made better viewing to accredit it to Gibson.

[J D 8]

Thanks Maurice, It was a while ago I saw it . Having seen film of a Lanc dropping one from higher up and getting it's tail hit by the splash one just knew what the A 26 was doing was a bad idea.

[maurice northcott]

Posted by J D 8 on 04/12/2020 11:34:07:

Thanks Maurice, It was a while ago I saw it . Having seen film of a Lanc dropping one from higher up and getting it's tail hit by the splash one just knew what the A 26 was doing was a bad idea.

Cheers JD..... its just my anorak character....

[Colin Leighfield]

To be fair to Gibson on the bomb-sight, in “Enemy Coast Ahead” he described it exactly as Dan told it in the third episode. He was taken aback when at Scampton he was approached by an RAF officer who said he had been brought into the project, although nobody had told Gibson! It turned out that he was a sighting specialist and he described the idea of using the towers as sighting points to determine the distance for the drop using triangulation. They sat down and scratched the idea out, the new chap doing the mathematics. They then took the idea to a corporal who knocked one together from pieces of wood. I don’t think there’s any reason to doubt that, it’s how things happen, isn’t it?

[Former Member]

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