British Drone Flyers, a new BMFA Membership type.

[andyh]

I received this from the BMFA today:

"Dear BMFA Club Administrator 

We have recently launched a new BMFA membership type aimed specifically at drone flyers, there are a number of differences between British Drone Flyer (BDF) membership and BMFA membership. Before mentioning the differences it is important to state that BDF membership has exactly the same insurance as standard BMFA membership and BDF membership is completely acceptable as a membership type at affiliated clubs and it is available for you to add for your members on the membership portal. (BDF members are BMFA members)

The two main differences between BDF membership and BMFA membership are as follows:

1                     BDF membership is a rolling membership, which means that whenever an individual takes out BDF membership it is valid from 12 months from the date membership is paid rather than expiring on 31^st December each year. Therefore the fee does not reduce at certain times through the year and remains at a the full price throughout the year.
We are exploring the possibility of making rolling membership available to all members from renewal.

2                     BDF Members do not receive a copy of the BMFA news, however they will receive a bi-monthly drone oriented electronic publication.

For further details about British Drone Flyers please see https://britishdroneflyers.org we would also very much appreciate it if you could add a link to the BDF website to your club websites.

We receive regular contact from drone flyers looking for a local club and of course recreational drone flying is a valid part of our sport so wherever possible they should be welcomed at our clubs. Where we are contacted in this manner we refer the individual to the club map at https://bmfa.azolve.com/clubFinder.html where individuals can search for clubs by the multi-rotor discipline.  If you welcome drone flying at your club could you please ensure your Club Disciplines are up to date on the BMFA membership portal so your club appears on the map when the multi-rotor discipline is searched for.

To update your club disciplines log in at https://bmfa.azolve.com and visit your club profile. Under the Club Details heading click on the Club Discipline tab and you will see the current disciplines listed for your club. Click update details then tick all disciplines that are flown at your club and save.

We would also like to introduce to you are new Drone Support Officer, Chris Bradbury who is an expert on all things drones, see https://britishdroneflyers.org/support for more details. Chris can be contacted by email at [email protected] for any drone specific matters.

Many thanks and Kindest Regards

The BMFA & BDF Membership team."

 

I'm not sure I understand the rationale for creating a separate membership type just for drone flyers.  on the one hand it seems like a good thing that the BMFA is engaging more with the drone/multi-rotor side of the hobby, on the other it seems likely to exacerbate any "us & them" attitudes between "traditional" modellers & drone/MR fliers.

 

as a club Treasurer/Membership Secretary, the idea of rolling memberships doesn't fill me with joy.  ?

 

fwiw, I fly both FW & MR, both LOS & FPV, so I have no axe to grind either way.  ?

 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I'd agree that rolling BMFA membership would be a nightmare for clubs to administer and monitor as it's a condition of affiliation that all club members must be current BMFA members.  Unless I'm missing something, a small error or omission in this regard could invalidate the club's BMFA provided liability and buildings/contents insurance and conceivably affect its operation under the article 16 exemption, depending on its risk assessment regarding non-exempt members!

 

If Andy Symons is seeing this some comment would be welcome!

[Frank Skilbeck]

I agree it's a good idea to bring in more BMFA members, but yes as a club secretary it would complicate our membership as we have aligned our club membership with the BMFA membership. Need some clarity on what happens if a member who had rolling membership forgot to renew and what effect that had on the club affiliation.

[gangster]

Yes as club admin the idea of rolling membership does not appeal at all. All club administrators are modellers and flyers and not BMFA employees. I do hope they reconsider this idea and remember that they work for us and not the other way round

[Cuban8]

Rolling membership for clubs is not a good idea and will add a vast amount of work and admin to the membership secs job. Even now  dealing with late joiners takes up an inordinate amount of time to keep up with. I don't suppose it will make much difference to those who arrange their own Bmfa and fly alone or in a non-organized group. I doubt if clubs will accept the risks and additional admin of a rolling bmfa membership and will require anyone's bmfa membership to sych with the club year.

As for drone flyers, it was obvious that Bmfa wouldn't pass up a potential  revenue stream, but who knows whether it'll prove to be worthwhile?

Edited June 25, 2021 by Cuban8

[Engine Doctor]

15 minutes ago, gangster said:

Yes as club admin the idea of rolling membership does not appeal at all. All club administrators are modellers and flyers and not BMFA employees. I do hope they reconsider this idea and remember that they work for us and not the other way round

? Agreed . Will the BMFA listen to us ? I hope so to as getting members to do simple thing like booking in for track and trace is at times challenging so renewing their BMFA on time will only happen if we ( that's the unpaid club officals) physically check the portal on a daily basis and then chase the non payers at the field!.

And what happens when a member lips through the net, doesn't pay and has an accident ?who will pick up the tab then .

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Bit bemused by it myself, united we achieve ? Maybe we just haven't been told the logic behind it.

Why should some get rolling membership and others not ? Credit note then reduction is what we had for years, why the change and only for some ?

[leccyflyer]

Rolling membership sounds like a bad idea for clubs, making more work for the Membership Secretary and making it harder to check that the club has 100% of club members properly insured at any one time.

[Cuban8]

A little curious to see that the new BMFA  Drone membership cost has been pitched at more or less twice that of FPVUK's offering. OK, the insurance covers a larger amount, but £38 against £19.99 is not much of an incentive to go for the BMFA option given that a hard copy magazine is not included but rather an emailed bimonthly Drone sheet and on-line access to the BMFA mag which we all have anyway (not a bad idea IMHO). I do ask myself why we appear to be trying to steal FPVUK's thunder anyway? Their website appears to offer all that  the prospective drone flyer needs. A new name for us soon perhaps? BDMFA - British Drone & Model Flying Association?

 

Edited June 26, 2021 by Cuban8

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

4 minutes ago, Cuban8 said:

A little curious to see that the new BMFA  Drone membership cost has been pitched at more or less twice that of FPVUK's offering. OK, the insurance covers a larger amount, but £38 against £19.99 is not much of an incentive to go for the BMFA option given that a hard copy magazine is not included but rather an emailed bimonthly Drone sheet and on-line access to the BMFA mag which we all have anyway (not a bad idea IMHO). I do ask myself why we appear to be trying to steal FPVUK's thunder anyway? Their website appears to offer all that  the prospective drone flyer needs. A new name for us soon perhaps? BDMFA - British Drone & Model Flying Association?

 

The levels of insurance and support from  FPV-UK cannot be compared to those of the BMFA. Cheaper is rarely better value.

[Cuban8]

I agree Andy, but from the point of view of a new drone flyer I doubt if they'll be losing sleep or overly worrying about the difference in insurance cover between the two options. £19.99 V £38 will be what registers and weighing up what chance there will be in them  making a claim may well be the deciding factor - rightly or wrongly.

BTW my BDMFA comment might not be such a bad idea if we really want to compete with FPVUK. I'm not a reactionary and accept that times are changing - so why split the two sides apart with BMFA drone and model flying classes?  We fly (like it or not) remotely piloted vehicles so let's truly embrace 'United we Achieve'. We'll all continue to do our own thing as it suits us.

Edited June 26, 2021 by Cuban8

[Robin Colbourne]

49 minutes ago, Andy Symons - BMFA said:

The levels of insurance and support from  FPV-UK cannot be compared to those of the BMFA. Cheaper is rarely better value.

I have no real interest in flying drones, however I did read through the FPV-UK insurance information, and in some respects it is better.  If anyone is contemplating giving one to one instruction on a commercial basis outside of a club environment, the FPV-UK insurance covers this, whilst the BMFA insurance does not.  I used to get the Model & Allied Publications insurance and later the Model Aviators Association insurance (in addition to my BMFA) for just this reason.

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

1 hour ago, Cuban8 said:

I agree Andy, but from the point of view of a new drone flyer I doubt if they'll be losing sleep or overly worrying about the difference in insurance cover between the two options. £19.99 V £38 will be what registers and weighing up what chance there will be in them  making a claim may well be the deciding factor - rightly or wrongly.

BTW my BDMFA comment might not be such a bad idea if we really want to compete with FPVUK. I'm not a reactionary and accept that times are changing - so why split the two sides apart with BMFA drone and model flying classes?  We fly (like it or not) remotely piloted vehicles so let's truly embrace 'United we Achieve'. We'll all continue to do our own thing as it suits us.

There is much more to it than just differences in insurance cover though. This gives drone flyers a genuine association, professional, non-profit making with proper levels of support  available via email, telephone and in person. It is not splitting the two sides apart either if anything it is pulling them together, its the same best available insurance, same membership documents and membership systems, just recognising that drone flyers want different things from membership and different benefits which the BMFA is best placed to provide.

 

Its also acting on what current members have indicated they would like, for example contemporary model flyers were massively in favour of a hardcopy BMFA news, while drone flyers were equally massively in favour of an electronic newsletter with more tailored content.

[Cuban8]

I'd be very happy to opt out of the posted bmfa news and read what I need from it on the website.  I think a considerable number of members will share the same view. But if bmfa think the cost of hard copy and postage in these belt tightening times remains worthwhile, then thats fine I suppose. 

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

8 minutes ago, Cuban8 said:

I'd be very happy to opt out of the posted bmfa news and read what I need from it on the website.  I think a considerable number of members will share the same view. But if bmfa think the cost of hard copy and postage in these belt tightening times remains worthwhile, then thats fine I suppose. 

The vast majority want to keep it as a hardcopy which is what makes it worthwhile.

[conrad taggart]

I would be happy to have a soft copy too - save the BMFA some money - it should be an option - just like the banks which offer paper or paperless statements 

 

[Rich Griff]

Hard copy for me please, it's nice to read up properly than reading a tiny mobile internet phone screen. Bit all of us have computers. It's good to have hard copies that you can refer to from time to time rather than " now where the hell did I see that on the internet" problem.

 

Right, I'm off down the shed for the rest of the day....

[Erfolg]

I suspect that the BMFA is seeking an increase in membership numbers. Some of the concept is probably related to the arrangements that the FPV-UK has now with its current membership.

 

Maintaining at least the current level of BMFA membership is already a challenge. The membership numbers are possibly now sub 30, 000 from 36, 000 in the past. I cannot see there being an increase of any note from fixed winged modelers.

 

Looking at the numbers the CAA states have registered with them, there seems to be a lot of fliers who are not in the BMFA. The suspicion is that many if not all are drone fliers.

 

There has to be temptation for the BMFA to lore them in, by whatever means is necessary.

 

For those in head office and many who are wedded to the BMFA as a movement, it is probably seen as essential to keep the name going. To fixed wing fliers and helicopter modelers, I guess it matters little. The times are changing, most organisations have to change with them to survive, to those of us left behind (potentially) that is life.

[Cuban8]

But why not offer the option of a soft copy? Just another tick box on the renewal portal along the lines of the discount card. I do question the 'vast majority of members prefer the hard copy' claim. IIRC the response to the recent survey was just a third of the membership bothered to reply. Which leaves two thirds without an opinion or couldn't care less anyway.

Erflog......very well put. Time will be the final arbiter of things. 

Edited June 26, 2021 by Cuban8

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I filled survey in a voted keep the mag, you don't vote, well you know the answer.

FPV/UK v BMFA insurance ? well as stated BMFA provides other things as well, and they can evolve to draw more members/monies in. Can't see much to disagree with really, rolling membership would be nice, but problematic for clubs.

[Dave Bran]

Yes, Well.  I fly pretty much all types of UAS. In the last two years just as much time on multirotors as anything else. My "main" club agreement (I'm a member of three clubs) has an agreement with local ATC for multirotors covers sub 150 feet and no autonomous flight systems (fixed wing and rotary 300 feet), so we fly minimum gyro freestyle/race quadcopters, basically fixed wing level of control, no auto hover, no auto height management, no return to home, no auto landing, no waypoint flying. The skill requirement is near the same as fixed or rotary wing, likely higher since we are always fast and low.

 

Since we have been lectured at for seemingly forever that all UAS are "drones", what is the BMFA considering a "drone" now. And please BMFA give specific demarcation so it is absolutely clear what is a "drone" and what is not in your parlance. And not only here, I expect a comprehensive issued to all members explanation that is much clearer than the current.

 

Finally, since I fly all types under existing BMFA membership, I assume I'll have access to this splinter group's (there are no other suitable words IMO) newsletter, etc, and if not, why not?

[Erfolg]

My own perception of the BMFA, is that philosophically, they see all model sized things that fly as the group they want to represent.

 

With respect to the definition or understanding what constitutes a UAV, drone fixed wing and so forth is something that goes well beyond the BMFA, probably both the CAA and Parliament (laws etc.)

 

I suspect that the BMFA has made a guess of the percentage that can be attracted, and considered the issue at what cost. I can imagine that the burden of running the FVP-UK is onerous, if it is not set up as a full time organisation. An accommodation could be more than welcome. The issue then becomes, how to bridge the gaps, that their members will accept in enough numbers, to achieve what the BMFA sees as a good result.

 

Such a move or moves could solve in the short term, the number issues for the BMFA, which is really as much about finance, as ideals.

 

[Martin_K]

On the British Drone Flyers home page one of the benfits listed is "Access to the BMFA Achievement Sceme". Given that non BMFA members can take achievement tests it makes me wonder if a multi-rotor "A" is on the way.

 

I associate multi-rotor qualifications with people operating commercially, in contrast to the BMFA focus on hobby/sport flying.

[andyh]

1 hour ago, Martin_K said:

On the British Drone Flyers home page one of the benfits listed is "Access to the BMFA Achievement Sceme". Given that non BMFA members can take achievement tests it makes me wonder if a multi-rotor "A" is on the way.

 

there's been a multi-rotor 'A' for years already.  whether it's relevant to how the vast majority of people fly MRs is another matter.

[Martin_K]

andyh, I see it now, launched in 2014. Multi-rotor pilots already had access to the BMFA achievement scheme, therefore. As to 'fit' of the option, I obviously have no knowledge.