Car alarms affected by WiFi or video doorbells?

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

1 hour ago, kc said:

Once again the forum members have provided useful advice on a non aeromodelling topic - thanks chaps and also to the Moderators for allowing non aero stuff.   It's amazing how this forum has so many sensible and knowledgable people who comment on any subject.  

I will see what the dealership says on Friday when they service the car. 

 

 

Anything and Everything/Chit chat (within the grounds of decency and CoC of course) is the forum section you posted in - and I'll bet you use your car to go to the field anyway! 

 

Pat - I wasn't suggesting that kc gets his multi meter out - just illustrating how a small fault can trigger an alarm.  You're quite right that the dealer should do their job!

[Denis Watkins]

1 hour ago, PatMc said:

 You never know he might end up with a new alarm unit & that will re-start the warranty on that device.   

That would be great if he did Pat, and I hope KCs unit is in Guarantee.

But Warranty is a funny thing.

If, for example, the alarm was 11 months old of a 12 month Warranty.

The replacement units Warranty would only run for 1 more month.

It could be in a 3 year, or 5 year band, but the same applies. Replacements run from the originals Warranty date.

[Fatscoleymo]

If your car is on the drive at other times does it go off? Or only late at night?

[Megawatt]

I have a Toyota. I also have a ring doorbell as does my neighbour. Both neighbours have remote garage doors. My alarm is fine. 

 

Intermitted alarm fault are a nightmare for the dealer but it should be his nightmare not yours.

 

Perhaps you can park the car in a different place for a night or two - suggest his forecourt and a loan car for you-and if the problem moves with the car or stays at your house...........

[Engine Doctor]

You can't be too careful and just ignore an alarm, I eventually turned the alarm off on a car that kept going off one evening and into the early hours. At around 2 am I turned it off in frustration. Next morning found both front and rear windscreens had been stolen ! Thieves had played me like a penny whistle!

 

If car is in manufacturers warranty then it should be covered and could also be fixed by another Toyota dealer if yours is not taking you seriously. You could try contacting Toyota UK customer service .

If its a used car warranty they really don't cover much  are full of exclusions and as much use as a chocolate teapot. 

 

My sons Volvo alarm kept going off a couple of hours after being locked up for the night along with low battery warning and that turned out to be an alarm module fault.

Good luck and don't let the dealer bully you .

 

 

[Denis Watkins]

You have hinted at this KC, but 10s of millions of cars

And 10s of millions of doorbells, I think we would have come across this fault before.

Point this out to the dealer, and park it On his drive, I would.

[kc]

Again, thanks for the comments.

 

it only happens in the late evening, never in daylight.   Which might suggest somone is doing something with their Wi Fi operated security equip at that time.   Never at the same time each day though.   Sometimes happens twice within minutes.     Interestingly this problem has only occurred since the neighbour, who complained to the Council about the alarm,  fitted solar panels on their roof.   So I wonder if the solar panels communicate with the Elec company with data each evening after dark.   

 

[FlyinFlynn]

I seriously doubt Ofcom would be interested, keyless entry systems and car alarm devices operate on the 433.92 ISM band whereby interference is to be expected and specifically mentioned in the license free terms. I'm not sure a video doorbell would have sufficient ERP to cause interference over more than a yard or two, unless it has been 'doctored' to give longer range, however it is not impossible. 

Has a radio amateur moved in somewhere nearby?  433.92Mhz sits inside an amateur band and significant power can legally be radiated. Although mostly the problem manifests as door unlockers not working until the transmission stops, not alarms going off.......

 

Someone has already suggested parking your car elsewhere for a day or two to see if the problem is faulty car alarm or interference related.....

[kc]

This problem has not gone away despite having sent the car back to the Toyota dealer for attention.   Their diagnostic gadget came up with an error  stating a poorly adjusted bonnet sensor which was then readjusted.   I didnt believe this was the fault and it didnt stop the alarm going off 3 times the   night it was returned!.

I noticed that 10 feet from my car  hidden behind the hedge my neighbours have installed a large white box marked 'Electricity'  presumably the control for their solar panel system that was installed at just the same time my car alarm started going off at night.   Does anyone know what sort of signals these solar panels send to the electricity company about solar energy sent to the grid?   What frequency would they use and could it interfere with my car alarm but not their own Porsche or Audi equally near to this box?

[Trevor]

Is there a Toyota owners’ club forum where you could ask if this is a known problem? I had similar issues with a new Ford S-Max some years back and had to write to the dealer formally rejecting the car before they took it seriously. Even then they couldn’t find the fault but when I told them of other Owners’ club members’ experiences, they replaced the interior motion sensors ‘as a goodwill gesture’ and that fixed the problem.

 

Good luck,

 

Trevor

[Geoff S]

We've had solar panels for 7 or 8 years (they've now more than paid for themselves) and the only control is the DC to AC converter etc that sits next to the mains distribution and supplies power to the house.  There's no RF involved except to the display/control panel which is in the kitchen.  We send in the meter readings on-line every quarter (though they're physically checked occasionally by a human to make sure we're not cheating ? ).  I think ours is the usual system. We've recently had a so-called smart meter installed (which tells me nothing I didn't know already, except telling us when we're feeding into the grid rather than drawing from it).  There is an RF communication from the gas meter (which is accessible outside) and to another display but that's all.

 

However, it might be possible your neighbour's system is different. It might be worth asking them.

[MattyB]

1 hour ago, kc said:

Does anyone know what sort of signals these solar panels send to the electricity company about solar energy sent to the grid?   What frequency would they use and could it interfere with my car alarm but not their own Porsche or Audi equally near to this box?

 

It could be similar to smart meters that normally utilise a mobile data connection, though apparently some of the newer ones utilise a dedicated mesh network. However they work though, as suggested before in this thread you need to do the "park it somewhere else overnight" test - if it still goes off then you know it has nothing to do with the local environment, but if it does it's probably time to ask you neighbours what's in their mysterious control box!

[kc]

What is a 'dedicated mesh network' ?   And what frequencies are used? 

It sounds like a reasonable idea to " park it somewhere else overnight"  but actually if I did I wouldn't know if the alarm had gone off or not!       Actually the dealer suggested they may keep the car overnight in their workshop to see if their CC TV sees it going off.   If they do then the more revealing thing would be if their delivery driver's car ( currently left in my driveway ) has it's alarm go off!    But it's a different model Toyota and newer so it probably has different equipment. 

Actually Trevor's comment about having the interior sensors replaced seems very interesting......  why should the interior sensors go wrong -  could it be condensation that occurs when the temperature drops at night that affects the sensors?

 

[MattyB]

1 hour ago, kc said:

What is a 'dedicated mesh network' ?   And what frequencies are used? 

Mesh networks are explained in the link I posted above, about halfway down. In terms of frequencies Smart meters have historically used 2.4GHz, but apparently they are now deploying them with a comination of 2.4 and 868MHz.

 

1 hour ago, kc said:

It sounds like a reasonable idea to " park it somewhere else overnight"  but actually if I did I wouldn't know if the alarm had gone off or not!  

 

I am not suggesting the next country, just 15-10m away. If it is RF related that should be more than enough for the signal to have attentuated to a level it does not affect the car, though I still believe it is a highly unlikely source tbh - there is so much RF noise around these days you would be seeing the alarm go off in other locations too like public car parks. I think it is much more likely to be related to one or more of condensation, water ingress or a failing connector/switch somewhere in the system.

 

[kc]

Thanks for your info and comments Matty.   Actually even if I parked my car in the road in front of my house it would not be very much further from the solar box.   And of course if I parked it further down th road in front of someone elses house that would no doubt cause trouble if the alarm did go off and I wouldn't even hear it!    ( nobody here parks in the road overnight- they all have driveways plus garages )

 

I too think it's a car fault not interference but I wanted to get all the info on possible causes and as the car alarm problem started  immediately after workmen installed the neighbours solar panels the coincidence seemed interesting.

I will see what the garage finds and post any interesting details.

[Engine Doctor]

Just worth checking but are you sure that there are no nsects insed the car setting off the motionsensors at night ? a good spray before locking the car might help if there isan insect intruder .

As per above post get the intereior motion sensors checked out or try dissarming them for a night and see if it helps 

[Nik Harrison]

kc,

I've watched this thread grow and grow and I do have sympathy with you, but you are going to have to be a bit more assertive in sorting the problem.  The suggestion of moving the car to a different spot has fallen on deaf ears on account of not then being able to tell if it goes off.  A quick check on my phone assures me there is a voice activated recorder available so why not use a phone to tell you if the alarm goes off.  You will continue to go round in circles if you do not cross off potential problems one at a time.  Garage agents are next to useless at solving this type of problem as too much thinking is called for.  Either you start ticking off potential sources of the problem or the council will act.  I hope this does not sound too aggressive that is not my intention, but relying on the Garage agent is no solution.  My sincerest wish is that you get it fixed. Cheers, Nik.

[PatMc]

I've been thinking about the how RFf interference might trigger an alarm & realised I can't come up with a valid method of setting off the alarm using my remote key without some other direct contact with the car. My current car's a Nissan Cashcow but my previous two cars were Toyota Auris & Avensis - AFAICR the same applies to them.

Unless I'm completely off track this would seem to rule out RF as the culprit.

It might be time to consider the "No more Mr Nice Guy" approach & by-pass the local dealer -  email the CEO of Toyota UK with a CC of this going to the local dealership CEO. 

Edited July 22, 2021 by PatMc

[Rich Griff]

Why not take the dealerships offer of them storing the car overnight with it being videos !

 

Garage diagnosis time is expensive and involved, even then it's down to the diagnosis software developers "take" on the cause of stuff.

 

2 wires being sawn by the electric windows Bowden cable so when it rains these 2 wires are connected together and to earth...a completely adnormal undesigned impossible occurance not thought of ever happening !!  Mayhem, even dead locked us in the car !!!!  Not fail safe at all.

 

Volvo V70 brake pedal switch so brake lights always on, domino effect ( or is that waterfall effect ), car refuses to run after about 5 mins use.

 

Give the dealership the opportunity to find the fault first hand.

 

Should these problems happen ? In a perfect world, no.

 

 

[kc]

Nik, PatMc and Rich thanks for your comments.    Actually I have been ticking off the possible causes one by one.   The forum members all think interference by door bells is not possible and that solar panel control is also unlikely.    All along i felt that the trigger was condensation at nightfall.  but interestingly when the interior sensors were switched off  the alarm was not triggered.   Obviously I looked for moths or spiders but found none.  In fact yesterday the car was taken to the Toyota garage to be left in their workshop overnight - I await their report on this............

 

[Rich Griff]

Condensation at nightfall, do the windows "steam up" a bit when car is parked ?

 

Does the car "smell" and any damp patches on the carpets ?

 

You Park near shrubs or treescould the scuttle drains be blocked meaning water can " overflow" to inside the car, usually overflowing an ECU!!!!!  This happens !!!!!

 

Water leak into the car ?

 

New VW beetle stank, no air con drain hose hole in the floor so air con water drained into the car !!!

 

New VW golf water leak on roof seam, water exited seam by the windscreen bottom r/h corner !

 

Removing and resealing windscreen was a complete and utter waste of the dealers time, did they listen ?

[Rich Griff]

The Citroen was a mobile swimming pool......

[PatMc]

Rich, there's no reason for KC to look for the cause of this fault. Best play the "I know nothing - I'm sure your clever experts can fix it" card & let the dealer worry.

[Rich Griff]

Absolutely, but blocked drains due to parking by a tree that then overflow into the car and soak the carpets ( or fill the void under the false floor ) causing humidity inside the car....

 

Yeah that's covered by warranty isn't it, but hayho, you live and learn...

 

 

 

[Trevor]

51 minutes ago, kc said:

 interestingly when the interior sensors were switched off  the alarm was not triggered.   

 

I assume you told the dealer this? If so,  I would expect them to change the sensors fairly promptly before spending a lot of time chasing hypothetical insects, condensation or other possible triggers. When the sensors were changed on my (and several other) S-Maxes, none of us had any further issues and I never heard an explanation for the failures. It’s possible that even Toyota occasionally has a component quality hiccup - hopefully so, as it would be a simple fix and might restore your confidence in the car.