soldering u\c wire, i`m Fluxed if i can do it!!!!

[martin collins 1]

Getting seriously fed up with this soldering undercarriage lark, where am i going wrong!  Just bought a 220w iron because i thought that`s where the problem was, not enough heat in the wire but no. Solder is melting but refuses to bind to the u/c wire, only the pre tinned copper wire, it just runs off the Sprung wire. I have tried B&Q solder and also the larger diameter plumbers solder which has lead in it, flux is Templers Telux. Wire was cleaned thoroughly with wire wool before hand and then wiped over with Methylated spirit, there has to be something simple here i am missing?

[Guest]

Martin

I think your first assumption is correct,not enough heat in the wire,try heating the wire direct without the tinned copper wire and you should see the solder melt onto the wire

I use a small cooks blowtorch for this kind of job,gets the heat into the wire faster the the iron.

Hope this helps.

Jim

 

[John Wagg]

I clean the wire with sandpaper and use the flux (in my case I have a liquid 'Bakers' flux) brushed on to the wire or dip the wire in the flux.

Heat the wire and you will hear the flux hissing. Then apply the solder to the joint. Most times I use standard electricians wire solder but have had my stuff for a lot of years,

I have a Weller soldering gun which is rated at 100W and this will do 1/8" inch wire easily but you must get the heat into the wire.

[Denis Watkins]

To add to Jims good advise Martin

There are some metals that do not solder

Normal steel and piano wire will solder

[ken anderson.]

clean wire, plenty of heat and flux...

 

ken anderson...ne..1.........retired gasman, soldering assessment's dept.

[martin collins 1]

Thanks for the advice, watched a Youtube vid and realised that the wire wool had not shinnied up the wire enough for one and my copper wire was not bunched together tight enough. Very helpful for those that are having trouble with this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDxOrvazHrM&list=PL1xBH_HCagHbomum8qf6TsEzzyF0JWfWq&index=1

I decided to solder the two undercarriage legs before i put the axle on and bound with the copper wire. Given it a good pull around and nothing has moved so i think it will cope with even my landings.  

 

[Jonathan W]

Seems like the OP has fixed this now, but I already started typing, so.....

 

To get the solder to take best on the steel, besides sufficient heat, you need an active flux. The Bakers' fluid previously mentioned is a good example.

 

I am not personally familiar with the Templers Telux used by the OP, but from doing an internet search it is labelled "milder". Therefore I think you would be better off with something more aggressive.

 

 

[martin collins 1]

Good point Jonathan, i will pick up some Bakers fluid ready for the next build..........M

[Simon Chaddock]

Baker fluid largely contains zinc chloride which is pretty corrosive particularly at elevated temperatures thus it chemically etches the surface of the steel so removing the iron oxide which will not solder. It is also important that a Bakers Fluid soldered joint is well flushed with water afterwards to arrest any further corrosion.  

[Jonathan W]

I have obtained good results with "Everflux". It's not as corrosive as Bakers' fluid, but it still seems to keep the iron oxide at bay. Even when you clean the steel, a thin layer of iron oxide is very quick to re-form, especially upon heating, and a very passive flux will struggle to tackle it.

[Dad_flyer]

I use La-Co flux from my plumbing box. It is widely available and looking at the datasheet is actually specified for use on mild steel. The datasheet does not say it contains zinc chloride.

[Nigel R]

I use whatever b&q's finest flux and solder is. I find a torch is very quick on thick piano wire. As stated the heat needs to be in all the parts. Heat the biggest wire directly if using an iron.

[Martin McIntosh]

Not read all of this but what you really need to do is to file the piano wire. Sand paper or steel wool will not work. Templers Telux and 60/40 solder is all I ever use and my iron is a Metcal soldering station one with a mere 3 or 4mm bit which will do at least 6swg wire with ease, in fact my current build has 6mm u/c legs. PM me if you wish for more details (the soldering station types quoted are now way out of date). You can use a mini blowtorch if you wish maybe but I only use one for silver soldering which requires red heat.

The file I have is not on this pc.

[FlyinBrian]

1 hour ago, Martin McIntosh said:

Not read all of this but what you really need to do is to file the piano wire. Sand paper or steel wool will not work. Templers Telux and 60/40 solder is all I ever use and my iron is a Metcal soldering station one with a mere 3 or 4mm bit which will do at least 6swg wire with ease, in fact my current build has 6mm u/c legs. PM me if you wish for more details (the soldering station types quoted are now way out of date). You can use a mini blowtorch if you wish maybe but I only use one for silver soldering which requires red heat.

The file I have is not on this pc.

Wire wool and or sandpaper do actually work fine BUT clean the wire first with meths or acetone otherwise you just rub the wire's protective surface grease into the area you are trying to clean. As well as temperature the iron needs to have a good heat capacity which if you are soldering 8 gauge and above wire does mean a big bit. Also tin the areas being soldered before binding with tinned copper wire. Given a sufficiently capable iron the solder will flow through the joint quickly.

If you use any sort of blow torch there is a danger you will take the temper out of the spring steel wire and your U/C will bend easily on a hard arrival.

 

 

[David Davis]

Regarding electric soldering irons gentlemen, can we put some numbers on this. What size soldering iron would you recommend? 100watt? I doubt that I will be soldering anything much bigger than 6SWG wire, usually 8SWG or less. 

[Nigel R]

6 hours ago, FlyinBrian said:

blow torch there is a danger you will take the temper out of the spring steel wire

Yes you have to be aware of getting the wire hot enough but no more

[Cuban8]

I have a bottle of Laco liquid flux that must be almost 40 years old and it still does an excellent job. I wouldn't bother with a soldering iron on wire undercarriages, unless they were of a miniscule type. A small butane gas torch with a suitably sized flame I find is a much more effective tool, in that heat can be got into the whole joint area quickly before it has the chance to be conducted away and I find it much more easy to control. As with everything, practice makes (almost) perfect.

[Engine Doctor]

Tinning the wire before assembly helps enormously when final soldering is done. Some wire is particularly difficult to solder / tin. I have in the past resorted to applying a drop of spirit of salts after which the solder flowed fine.  Spirit of salts is dangerous stuff be warned and wear suitable protection inc eye protection

When doing metalwork at school maaaanny years ago we used a copper sulphate solution on any ferrous object prior to soldering as the thin copper deposit made soldering very easy. 

 

 

 

[Geoff S]

6 hours ago, David Davis said:

Regarding electric soldering irons gentlemen, can we put some numbers on this. What size soldering iron would you recommend? 100watt? I doubt that I will be soldering anything much bigger than 6SWG wire, usually 8SWG or less. 

 

The Henley Solon I've had for about 60 years is 125 watt and has a very big copper bit. It takes a while to get up to temperature but, once there, it does the job.  I once used it to resolder the fuel tank of my 1932 Scott TT Replica with no problems (It was a squareish tank that was soft soldered when manufactured.)

 

As with all soldering, the 'secret' is cleanliness and getting the joint to the right temperature before applying the solder with a suitable flux.   As my dad always said, apply the solder to the joint not to the iron - he also said never to carry the solder to the joint on the iron when soldering small electrical components, but I often ignored that ?

 

Geoff

[Martin McIntosh]

A Henley Solon? On large piano wire? You must be joking. Even a cheap soldering station will maintain the tip temperature on almost anything you wish.

I should know, as a large part of my job I was a professional solderer for over 55 years.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I'm going with make sure the work piece is Clean, I buy none of the various chemicals described, Brillo pad, washing up liquid or similar, get it clean and you're most of the way there.

 

 

[Geoff S]

1 hour ago, Martin McIntosh said:

A Henley Solon? On large piano wire? You must be joking. Even a cheap soldering station will maintain the tip temperature on almost anything you wish.

I should know, as a large part of my job I was a professional solderer for over 55 years.

 

It works, Martin, on any piano wire I've ever needed to solder.  I've been using it for 60 years.  I can't remember if my Dad gave it to me or I 'stole' it from him (like a lot of my tools!)  It's very heavy and has a massive copper bit so has huge thermal capacity.  I, too, used to solder professionally, though mostly electronic components (not the big Henley, of course).  When I worked at GEC in the early 60s I used to walk through the area where they were soldering telephone exchange racks and they used gas heated irons - really lumps of copper heated on a gas ring. They had 2 - one in use and the other in the flame.  The soldering quality had to be perfect because, in use, a dry joint would be a nightmare to find.

[Martin McIntosh]

I thought that you meant the small Solon, not the big brute. I built my first Rx, a RCM&E UK with a small Solon at about the same time as you `obtained` yours. Sure beat heating up the end of a screwdriver on the gas stove.