New ARTF Panic quality.

[Ian Whittaker]

Myself and two club mates have just purchased one of the new Panics each. They fly brilliantly but the quality of the hardware is absolutely awful. Whoever sourced all the gear should get a massive Christmas bonus with the money they saved when purchasing the clevises for example - simply trying to tease them open has resulted in just about all of the supplied ones snapping - not ideal on any plane but terrible on one where they need to opened to fit and remove the wings! Why not provide the ball and socket struts as per previous Perkins ARTF kits? Also why couldn’t the press studs for the end plates be affixed at the factory? I’ve had many Panics and none have suffered the press studs coming off - yet on the new ones they seem impervious to glue - epoxy, cyano, the lot.

Its a real shame - it spoils my enjoyment of the plane which  is otherwise fantastic! 

Edited December 11, 2022 by Ian Whittaker

[J D 8]

   In the words of the song. When will they ever learn, when will they e--------------------

[Andy Stephenson]

The ball and socket fittings for the aileron joiners were mostly fitted incorrectly by the owners of the original ARTF Panics. If fitted straight there was a risk the ball could pop out of the socket at full aileron travel which is why they should have been glued in at an angle. It seems a different method has been used in the latest kits.

This is my solution for joining the ailerons, I screw the ball into some snake inner buried in the trailing edge of the ailerons at an angle commensurate with the wing offset...

[Ian Whittaker]

That’s petty neat Andy!! 

[Andy Stephenson]

Thanks, Ian, I've been building Panics for the last 30 years and this is the best method I have tried. I use the white cup and ball links as the other types tend to be too tight to get on and off regularly.

https://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk/products/white-ball-joint-m2-pk10?_pos=2&_sid=b1aacce79&_ss=r

[Don Fry]

Cheers Andy, I can feel another Panic coming along. Memories of the demise of the last one is fading!

[Simon Lumsdon 2]

Im just finishing a panic and this tip about angling the ball joints is gold, many thanks, will also try gluing some tube into aileron for the ball to thread into.

The other problem area is the pop studs for the wing struts, have epoxied them on and im planning to cover in g/f and sand back over the top so stud is secured but the ‘pop’ not interrupted

Edited December 11, 2022 by Simon Lumsdon 2

[Andy Stephenson]

It's not a good idea to use a hard setting clue on the female poppers as this restricts its spring action, I use clear Gorilla glue (not the cyno type) it sets flexible. I'm not sure how the struts are prepared on the latest ARTF kits but when I make mine I use a kind of trepanner to make a flat bottom hole the same diameter as the popper half the depth of the strut material and glue it in flush. As for locating where the male studs go on the wing tip, I band the wings on to the fuz as tightly as I can and make sure they are lined up in plan form. With a short pieces of dowel sharpened to a pencil point which are a push fit and glued into the back of the male poppers. They are then engaged into the female poppers on the strut and offered up to the wing tips. Once the position looks correct they are pushed onto the wing tips to make a depression in order to mark the position for drilling. Holes are drilled and the covering removed behind the stud. The stud/dowel assemblies are glued to the wing tips again with clear Gorilla glue. The strut should be able to be removed from the wingtip without either side pulling loose, use a rotating action rather than pulling it straight off to be certain.

The whole operation is a little fraught as it's easy for it to go awry so care is needed.

[Robin Colbourne]

One company at which I worked made the fuel gauging tubes for airliner fuel tanks.  These had circular plastic brackets to attach the tubes to the wing ribs  and the brackets had to be stretched over the tubes.  A lot broke when being put on, so I went to see the supplier.  It turned out that an annealing stage which would stress relieve the bracket and stop it snapping was being missed.  
Putting the Panic kit's  plastic hardware in boiling water for 20 minutes should stress relieve the parts, increasing their moisture content and robustness. 
If in doubt though, replace with parts from a reputable supplier.

[Glenn Philbrick]

Quite a few panics in our club a couple came to sticky ends due to the poor fittings as supplied. All those that are surviving have been rebutted with decent clevises. 

 

[Glenn Philbrick]

Refitted !!

 

[GrumpyGnome]

I'm sure decent clevises can't cost much more than rubbish ones.... say £5 a plane, to get a decent reputation... ? I'd happily have paid £5 more for my Riot than have to change them all....

[SIMON CRAGG]

Try a Dynam ARTF!

 

Be prepared to change virtually everything including the motor and esc.

 

Usually end up with a great flying model though, (says he hopefully, having just found an ME 109 BNIB for £95!).

[Engine Doctor]

Nothing new re the supply of rubbish hardware in kits . Its sadly been the norm  formany years with many suppliers.  I nearly alway throw most of it in the bin and supply my own. I know it's added cost but even the basic stuff like piano wire is rubbish a nd likely to snap. The distributors don't give a damm either . With the cost of ARTF's going haywire it's just not worth the risk using anything your not happy with. 

What I can't get my head around is why distributors don't do something about it ? After all its their name that takes the hit .

[Don Fry]

It’s because we are all dreamers ED. And we don’t want to upset the shop, who’s job it is to sort out rubbish. And we allow that little phrase “due to the nature of the hobby”

And in fairness, the current ARTF panics are eye watering prices. 

[David P Williams]

And the importers/distributors make little to no effort to provide spares for the ARTFs. I have a VQ Messerschmitt with a cracked cowl. My only option seems to be to try to repair or fabricate a new one myself

[kc]

The clever use of poppers ( press studs) seems to go back to the days of foam wing Panics and looks horrible.  If the latest Panics have built up wings they could have slot in wing braces a little inboard like many other biplanes - usually a 1/32 ply core to form tenons covered with balsa, tenons go into slotted thin ply on wing.  When inserted the wing bands or bolts hold the struts in place.   The trick with this method is to insert the TOP of the struts into top wing first then you can see the slot in lower wing to locate.

Edited December 12, 2022 by kc

[Robin Colbourne]

kc, surely the whole point of the Panic struts on poppers is to allow them to safely separate in the kind of rough and tumble landings that Panics experience when the owner doesn't get it quite right?
The inboard struts do of course look better, but they will rip the wing open in a heavy landing.

[Don Fry]

Agree with you there KC, I’ve built a couple of the Perkins kit design. Getting those pop studs to stay on is a challenge. Easier ways to do it.

[Robin Colbourne]

Maybe small magnets would be a better answer?  Possibly combined with a short peg into a blind hole to give positive location?

[kc]

Magnets even with pegs  might come off due to force of air in some aerobatics.     Alternative of plastic wing bolts into captive nuts appeals to me more.

I can say that wing struts into slots in wing can come out in a crash without any extra damage  - unfortunately I already comprehensively tested this many years ago in a different design of biplane!   Even with plastic wing bolts that sheared the wing struts just pulled out with no damage there even though the rest of the plan was badly crumpled. 

[Caveman]

I found the poppers on the wing struts a real pain on mine, built from the JP kit. They were so strong that it was very difficult to get them to separate without damaging the model. They also had a habit of tearing away from the wing, shearing the balsa of the wing tip.

 

I replaced them with threaded wood inserts in the wing tip and nylon bolts to secure the strut.

 

 

Built as plan using the poppers.

 

 

Replaced with nylon bolts - much easier to deal with.

 

For joining the ailerons together I fitted small glass fibre horns with ball links to the ailerons top and bottoms, which allows for up to 90 degrees deflection with no binding. The rods are 2mm carbon rod with the corresponding cups on either end.

 

 

GDB

[Chris Walby]

Sounds like it has more things wrong than right with this model, best I cross it off my wanted list unless I want to change nearly everything. If this is the state of the model industry it will follow the same path as the British car industry.

 

Has anyone got a standard Panic with all the supplied kit parts and if so how many flight has it had?

 

 

[Caveman]

Chris, get the kit. As far as I recall none of the hardware is supplied other than the ‘poppers’, an engine mount, pre-bent undercarriage and saddle clamps, so you can build it with whatever you decide is suitable for horns, hinges etc.

 

GDB

[Ian Whittaker]

2 hours ago, Chris Walby said:

Sounds like it has more things wrong than right with this model, best I cross it off my wanted list unless I want to change nearly everything. If this is the state of the model industry it will follow the same path as the British car industry.

 

Has anyone got a standard Panic with all the supplied kit parts and if so how many flight has it had?

 

 

Please don’t misunderstand me, the plane flys brilliantly. I’ve had a lot of them now, bOTH kit and the previous ARTF versions and they are easily my favourite model. I’ve had them powered by glow (up to and including a 90 2stroke, bonkers, would climb while in a flat spin!!) and electric (I run 6S 4000mAh which is a it ott but I use the same batteries in other models so want to keep it simple) and y Club mates have 4S and 5S setups - all are more than well powered!

I just feel that for a few pence extra at the component sourcing time they could be as good to build as they are to fly. The planes aren’t particularly cheap in my opinion either.