Flying Squirrel Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 Hi All, maybe I've bitten off more than I can chew here but I bought the Phillip Kent clipped wing cub from Sarik thinking it shouldn't be too hard to build given given I'm best part through a Seagull P47 kit and I thought it should make a good stepping stone before flying the P47. However, I've studied the plans for quite some and although I can decipher most of it the aileron hinges have me baffled, I'll put the picture below but it looks like some kind of robart hinge installed at an angle which leaves quite a sizeable gap? It also looks like some kind of pull system? Also it doens't detail any of the servo mounting so any guidance would be welcomed with open arms!! I'm sure I'll have more questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Stephenson Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) FS, It says "pushrod" so that's what they mean, I just looked again and the rudder hinge line is offset to one side, this is unusual but probably a scale detail. Edited January 16, 2023 by Andy Stephenson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Squirrel Posted January 16, 2023 Author Share Posted January 16, 2023 Thanks Andy, it appears to have 'pushrods' both on top and below the aileron so it's confusing me. I don't mind getting a bit ad hoc and putting 'normal' ailerons on but curious if there's a reason, some sort of mechanical differential? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cripps Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 It looks to me that the connection on top of the aileron is cosmetic only, and probably just a short length of elastic to mimic the pull-pull arrangement on the full-size. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Hilton Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 It looks like a frese aileron (not sure of correct spelling) .When up aileron is used the bit at the bottom sticks out adding drag to counter the drag effect of the other aileron going down .It’s supposed to eliminate adverse aileron yaw .The way its drawn with a bent robart hinge won’t allow any upward travel .If I was building the model I wouldn’t bother with that method I’m not much concerned with scale detail I prefer a practical model 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tee Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 I would imagine there would be slots at the hinges to allow the aileron to move upwards. John 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 I believe it necessary to have a clearance slot where each hinge is to allow the upward travel Alan noted. Same as Peter Millers 58 inch Turbulent for RCMW decades ago. I expect Phillip Kent wanted a true scale model for competition so included this detail. Easier to do it a simple way though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wagg Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) It would help with a top or bottom view of the hinge. As shown it does look as if the hinge won't allow upward movement. There needs to be a slot above the hinge to allow upwards movement. To me the top gap will close a bit as the aileron moves down with hinge pivot point where it is, Frise aileron:- Edited January 16, 2023 by John Wagg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david tilbury Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 Below is an L4....but aileron the same as a Cub.....hope it helps 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Squirrel Posted January 16, 2023 Author Share Posted January 16, 2023 3 hours ago, kc said: I believe it necessary to have a clearance slot where each hinge is to allow the upward travel Alan noted. Same as Peter Millers 58 inch Turbulent for RCMW decades ago. I expect Phillip Kent wanted a true scale model for competition so included this detail. Easier to do it a simple way though. That's interesting as the plan actually has Peter Millers name on, I'll research the turbulent and see if it helps guide me. Thanks for the steer. 2 hours ago, david tilbury said: Below is an L4....but aileron the same as a Cub.....hope it helps Thanks, Yes, that looks identical, I don't suppose you have an image of the actual servo connection?? Although I'm not actuially that concerned about 'scale appearance' It's a great learning curve for me and somehow I feel I'd be doing the designer an injustice just to bail out and do some kind of 'conventional' setup so all this help is much appreciated 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Squirrel Posted January 16, 2023 Author Share Posted January 16, 2023 If anybody happens to have copies of RCMW May through July 2006 there seems to be some detail on this model in a feature, a copy of the article would be great but I can't find any back issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Pentland 1 Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 Might help a bit https://www.magazineexchange.co.uk/cw/RC-Model-World-2006 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Squirrel Posted January 17, 2023 Author Share Posted January 17, 2023 David that's very helpful thanks, managed to get the June and July copies so just May 2006 if anybody can help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 (edited) The plan for Peter Miller's Turbulent that is on Outerzone seems to be the same design as his RCMW one but printed differently and does not show the hinge detail that I recall is on his RCMW Traplet plan. It used a horn ( normal type used on elevator or rudder etc) as a pivot at end and another pin as pivot at inner rib. The horn is supposed to have a square U shaped piano wire piece to fit aileron onto pivot horn (hinge). An L shape rather than U might be easier to fit. So Peter's idea might suit the Cub too. Edited January 17, 2023 by kc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 I will try to get a photo of the hinge arrangement of my part completed Turbulent if the idea appeals to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Squirrel Posted January 17, 2023 Author Share Posted January 17, 2023 Just now, kc said: I will try to get a photo of the hinge arrangement of my part completed Turbulent if the idea appeals to you. That would be very much appreciated, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Aileron 1 A couple of quick photos of the aileron setup on the Turbulent. The red is a plastic tube which goes onto the piano wire pin extreme right ( to avoid metal to metal which was thought a problem when this model was started 25 years ago!) which is one pivot. The other pivot is the L shaped pin shown partly inserted at the horn used as a pivot. All Peter Miller's invention of course. .picasa.ini .picasa.ini 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Squirrel Posted January 17, 2023 Author Share Posted January 17, 2023 Thanks KC, things are becoming clearer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Having looked again at the Turbulent I think Phil Kent's use of Robart type hinges might be better. It might be a good idea to make a mock up of the aileron and TE in scrap wood to see if the thing works and most important can be assembled after covering etc. Getting 2 hinges inserted might be tricky but 3 or more in a dead straight hinge line might be near impossible! It needs a bit of thought before starting I reckon. Note my photos shows the underside of course - wing was inverted to show detail. It's all hidden away under the wing when finished. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu knowles Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 When you are building your own model, its entirely up to you how you deal with these things. You could fit the simplest hinge - you might need to adjust the mating faces of the wing / aileron to square / bevelled, or you can go forthe most accurate scale representation of the real thing. One will soak up way more time than the other. The important thing (IMHO) is to press on and finish the model in a resonable time scale and in a way that satisfies you. Phil Kent's plans will be heavily weighted towards scale accuracy but it will make no difference to the way it flies and little difference to the way it looks if you simplify it. Get it finished and get it flown. The next build will always be better 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Squirrel Posted January 24, 2023 Author Share Posted January 24, 2023 OK, so next obviously newbie builder type question.. The plan has a 3/16 box section fusalage which is fine but it also says '1/8 Balsa stringers' down each side but only an indicative line, is this some form of 'shorthand' for installing opposing diaganals between each box? The text from one of the articals I've found reads..."There are two 1/8 stringersthat run to the tail each side of the fusalage. These should be glued in place and then faired to the shape indicated on the drawing" - I can't see anywere else on the drawing that shows these 'stringers' The section in question Any ideas to help a relative new builder trying to keep the building side of the hobby alive, there's no real builders in my club 😞 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 Think they're to add shape rather than a slab sided box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 Quite often these stringers etc are shown on the cross sections ( the formers ) which helps a lot. Is the stringer shown on F4 ? Often drawn on one side only or shaped ( tapered perhaps ) on one side but not the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Squirrel Posted January 24, 2023 Author Share Posted January 24, 2023 13 minutes ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said: Think they're to add shape rather than a slab sided box. So on the outside? And how do they 'cross'. Also they are not drawn lik ethe the other components,, just a dashed line that extends beyond the fus, mor elike I'd expect a control rod to look but that makes no sense either. I know folks will be thinking "just go build a wot 4 or something" but I'm pretty determind to crack this! And before I finish the P47..there's only so much space on the dining room table! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Squirrel Posted January 24, 2023 Author Share Posted January 24, 2023 6 minutes ago, kc said: Quite often these stringers etc are shown on the cross sections ( the formers ) which helps a lot. Is the stringer shown on F4 ? Often drawn on one side only or shaped ( tapered perhaps ) on one side but not the other. I think I understand what you're saying but there's only a cross section of f2 and that just shows the box and former Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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