toto Posted August 29, 2023 Author Share Posted August 29, 2023 I'll check it out PDB. Does it come with autopilot Toto 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted August 31, 2023 Author Share Posted August 31, 2023 I did a repair on the Arising Star prior to last weekends flight fest. She came down again as part of that outing and although no apparent damage was done, the repair ..... the spar that holds the top hatch down ..... had slackened. This had been glued in with Cyano. So ....I will look at that tonight ( all going well ) and redo it but this time, I will use epoxy and probably look at adding a little additional strength. Shouldn't take too long. It seems to be a weak point as so far .... any time that she has come down ( not by my own hand I might add ) this seems to be the area that takes the brunt of the damage. So ..... it'll be back to me and my mate John Smith to sort it out again. Cheers Toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 @totoinvest in some Gorilla glue to save messing with heavy epoxy. The foaming stuff seems to stick most things, and the wood glue is excellent for........ wood! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgeflyer Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 Just make sure you mask surrounding areas with tape as the foam gets into everything and wear disposable gloves as it's highly irritating to skin and eyes. The only way of cleaning off excess that I've found is with cellulose thinners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 I think it"s irritating to the eyes as most stuff is; I suspect toto is old enough to be sensible. A small amount on the hands has never affected me. Excess is easily removed with a modelling knife or sandpaper, making it simpler to use and clear up than epoxy. On the model that is, not on your hands! Like all of our modeling stuff, just be sensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted September 1, 2023 Author Share Posted September 1, 2023 Hi Chaps, I did go ahead and use epoxy ( prior to your responses as I also have gorilla glue ) and checked on it today. All seems well. The proof will be on the flying tomorrow. Cheers Toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidan mcatamney Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 11 minutes ago, toto said: Hi Chaps, I did go ahead and use epoxy ( prior to your responses as I also have gorilla glue ) and checked on it today. All seems well. The proof will be on the flying tomorrow. Cheers Toto Another old saying Toto that we have over here. "Keep the machinery between the Greenery " lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Wolfe Posted September 2, 2023 Share Posted September 2, 2023 On 31/08/2023 at 23:27, toto said: I did a repair on the Arising Star prior to last weekends flight fest. She came down again as part of that outing and although no apparent damage was done, the repair ..... the spar that holds the top hatch down ..... had slackened. This had been glued in with Cyano. So ....I will look at that tonight ( all going well ) and redo it but this time, I will use epoxy and probably look at adding a little additional strength. Shouldn't take too long. It seems to be a weak point as so far .... any time that she has come down ( not by my own hand I might add ) this seems to be the area that takes the brunt of the damage. So ..... it'll be back to me and my mate John Smith to sort it out again. Cheers Toto G'day toto. Did you add triangular gussets between the hatch hold down X-piece and the fuselage sides? As you have discovered, cyanoacrylate adhesives give a poor bond to themselves when trying to re-attach to a previous joint. Epoxy is not necessarily heavy if used judiciously, just be sure to scuff up the repair area with some coarse sandpaper to give a 'key' for the epoxy to adhere to. Not such a problem with aliphatic or traditional balsa cements as they tend to dissolve the previous application and can actually make a stronger bond. I have attached an oldie (but a goodie) from 1947 - it is still relevant nowadays and I have discovered that it also works well for aliphatic adhesives bu totally useless for cyanoacrylate adhesives. All the best with your progress. * Chris * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted September 2, 2023 Author Share Posted September 2, 2023 Thanks for that Chris, An interesting read and one of those handy to have articles for reference. Appreciated Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Stephenson Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 On 02/09/2023 at 07:11, Christopher Wolfe said: G'day toto. Did you add triangular gussets between the hatch hold down X-piece and the fuselage sides? As you have discovered, cyanoacrylate adhesives give a poor bond to themselves when trying to re-attach to a previous joint. Epoxy is not necessarily heavy if used judiciously, just be sure to scuff up the repair area with some coarse sandpaper to give a 'key' for the epoxy to adhere to. Not such a problem with aliphatic or traditional balsa cements as they tend to dissolve the previous application and can actually make a stronger bond. I have attached an oldie (but a goodie) from 1947 - it is still relevant nowadays and I have discovered that it also works well for aliphatic adhesives bu totally useless for cyanoacrylate adhesives. All the best with your progress. * Chris * The article specifically mentions "cement" and is old enough to be talking specifically about balsa cement, which is a solvent based glue. The idea of pre-cementing a joint was to allow it to soak into the grain of the wood. The solvent in the new coat would partially dissolve the previous one allowing it to meld together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted September 13, 2023 Author Share Posted September 13, 2023 Ok ...... for those of you who have been following my " First taste of the skies " thread you will be aware that I have just begun stripping down my Arising Star due to various issues. I will be continuing on with this latest saga on here as it is where it really belongs. To get yourself up to speed ..... you will need to go back to the above mentioned thread to get an idea where we are at. Meanwhile, after last nights start where I started stripping out the electrics, engine, fuel tank etc here is where I continued from tonight. the current servo set up which is actually ok .... but .... they are coming out as I need better access for the siting of the battery ..... more on that later. The nose wheel steering rod was previously taking a awkward and bendy route between its destinations ..... servo to nose wheel ..... which could not have been making for an easy transition for the push rod. it ducked down below the servo deck to come into the engine bay ....... like this ...... However , I thought ..... I can get rid of this pretty crapy and unnecessary bend in the system ...... to give ..... which will still work in with the pushrod connection to the nose wheel. I'll be making the connection slightly later but I'm happy It will align. Now ..... onto looking at the placement of the battery again ..... I'll be back soon. toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted September 13, 2023 Author Share Posted September 13, 2023 OK ..... on to the battery .... I the advise of the masses and decided to keep the battery in the same section of the fuselage ..... wrapped in foam and tie wrapped in as opposed to just being jammed in like before. the fuel tank will still clear the end of the battery when installed. I thought before going any further and installing any more items I'd better deal with the supporting of the fire wall which is coming away from the side of the fuselage. I will epoxy the join but it needs further support. When looking at the inside ..... I get this ..... which I'm not convinced will be great when a fillet of wood is offered up ..... like this on the other side ..... so .... I decided to do this ..... drilled a series of holes into which I will epoxy some 4mm dowel .... I can in addition to this , insert an internal support like above as a belt and braces approach. there is also a little room inside the engine compartment to do the same. So ...... it looks like its epoxy time ....... I'll be back toto 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted September 13, 2023 Author Share Posted September 13, 2023 Ok ..... so it was out with the big boys stuff ....... Yes .... Gorilla 5 minute epoxy .... no messing here and don't need a lot of time to play with .... so went for the fast stuff. glued and clamped as shown from this shot from above ..... nice and tight from the inside .... and dowelled through from the outside to the inside ..... dowels on average about 20mm long. ( 4mm dia ) Now ... I am going to add extra supports on the inside as discussed above but thought I'd do that as a separate exercise. I need to have a look and see what I have in my stock that will best fit the task. personally, I think what I have done so far would probably do as these dowels were very tight indeed. I had to knock them in with a toffee hammer. nice. Anyway ... that is probably me from the shed for tonight. I'll be back tomorrow probably rechecking the servos for centering and full movement prior to re-installing them. I'll also look at routing the various servo wires etc over to the site where the RX will be going making sure there is as little sloppy messy wires left loitering about at risk of getting snagged on anything. Ok ..... back to the house ..... I have an appointment with my best mate John Smith. cheers toto. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outrunner Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 Go easy on the epoxy it's heavy stuff. Keep it light for a better flight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted September 13, 2023 Author Share Posted September 13, 2023 Hi outrunner, I could have used superphatic or CA but with it being the firewall, I wanted to give it the strongest possible chance. Anything I use elsewhere will probably be something lighter. thanks for remembering me though before I go on an Epoxy fest 😄 cheers toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidan mcatamney Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 Well done Toto with the repairs . You've done a good job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted September 13, 2023 Author Share Posted September 13, 2023 Thanks Aiden, That firewall is one component that needs to be able to do its job. The engine mount goes directly on to it and the vibration must be pretty immense. So much so that I previously lost two engine mount bolts with the third half way out and the fourth well on it's way to slackening. There will he nylock nuts fixed behind the native nut fittings this time leaving the bolts with no where to go. Of course the risk is that any vibration just transfers to the next weakest location which in this case would be the fire wall ....... hence the extra supports and dowels. Fingers crossed it does the job. Tomorrow is the retesting and installation of the servos and relocation if the RX a good four inches or so further to the rear and away from the battery. It's a far less cramped or over shadowed location hopefully giving a clearer signal path. Still loads to do to recover the model back to something hopefully more reliable and robust. Cheers for now Toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 9 hours ago, toto said: Hi outrunner, I could have used superphatic or CA but with it being the firewall, I wanted to give it the strongest possible chance. Anything I use elsewhere will probably be something lighter. thanks for remembering me though before I go on an Epoxy fest 😄 cheers toto 5 minute epoxy is for use where you really do need it to set in 5 minutes. For something that you had jigged up and clamped 30 minute epoxy is a better bet and reportedly much stronger. Also you can smear some on the mating face of the captive nuts before tightening them up hard into the firewall. I like to put some petroleum jelly into the threads when doing that, because if epoxy can find a way, it'll do it's very best to block a hole. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Wolfe Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 11 hours ago, toto said: OK ..... on to the battery .... I the advise of the masses and decided to keep the battery in the same section of the fuselage ..... wrapped in foam and tie wrapped in as opposed to just being jammed in like before. the fuel tank will still clear the end of the battery when installed. I thought before going any further and installing any more items I'd better deal with the supporting of the fire wall which is coming away from the side of the fuselage. I will epoxy the join but it needs further support. When looking at the inside ..... I get this ..... which I'm not convinced will be great when a fillet of wood is offered up ..... like this on the other side ..... so .... I decided to do this ..... drilled a series of holes into which I will epoxy some 4mm dowel .... I can in addition to this , insert an internal support like above as a belt and braces approach. there is also a little room inside the engine compartment to do the same. So ...... it looks like its epoxy time ....... I'll be back toto Toto, you are learning some valuable lessons, well done. Nothing wrong with 'belt and braces' 😉 I have used the same method to 'pin' a firewall when an IC engine is the motive power for over 20 years and also back it up with triangular gussets. As for epoxy, I might be old fashioned but good old 24 hour Araldite is still my favourite as I try to time such jobs as last thing in the day and then sleep while things set up. Some of the 30 minute and 90 minute epoxies are almost as strong but if one reads the label, they still prefer an overnight cure for maximum strength. I discovered long ago that so called '5 minute epoxies' might harden in 5 minutes but require much more time to reach full strength and imho they do not pass the test of time - usually crumbling to a yellow smelly powder after about 5 years. You could also try to minimise vibration by balancing your propeller - my apologies if you and your instructor have already taken this important step. * Chris * 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 11 hours ago, Outrunner said: Go easy on the epoxy it's heavy stuff. Keep it light for a better flight. 2 hours ago, leccyflyer said: 5 minute epoxy is for use where you really do need it to set in 5 minutes. For something that you had jigged up and clamped 30 minute epoxy is a better bet and reportedly much stronger. Also you can smear some on the mating face of the captive nuts before tightening them up hard into the firewall. I like to put some petroleum jelly into the threads when doing that, because if epoxy can find a way, it'll do it's very best to block a hole. On a firewall given it's position in the model adding extra epoxy won't make much difference, as it's in the right place, and if it is heavier there will normally be some nose weight you can remove or rejig of internals to balance it out. I completely agree on the 30 min epoxy though, I don't use 5 min for much at all these days. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 (edited) Balanced prop, absolutely... Self locking nuts are just that... Washers spread load... Longer than needed screws, bolts and control rods are heavy... Metal control rod touching other metal from time to time is not good... Any other frames relying on mortice only ? Fuz floor sheet looks a bit heavy and fitted longitudinally, but that's how it came ? Maybe a couple of cross braces... Control snakes braced/anchored/ supported or able to flop about ? But they are solid metal... Engine cuts out, dead stick, check clunk pipe etc... Tailplane covering looks like it disappears under/into structure ? Keep going, your doing the right things..... May I ask what engine is it please ? Enjoy... Edited September 14, 2023 by Rich Griff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 (edited) Camping sleeping mat, bubble wrap...for Rx I would mount Rx on/off switch internally to keep it clean and vib free, operated via control rod. Wing band dowels look a bit short for 6 bands... If servo screws are a bit "wobbly" now, drop some cyno into wood holes and allow to go off overnight.... Treat all my above as constructive criticism/suggestion, employ if you wish... Some more editing time/better internet would be nice too. Edited September 14, 2023 by Rich Griff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 12 minutes ago, Rich Griff said: Camping sleeping mat, bubble wrap...for Rx I would mount Rx on/off switch internally to keep it clean and vib free, operated via control rod. Wing band dowels look a bit short for 6 bands... If servo screws are a bit "wobbly" now, drop some cyno into wood holes and allow to go off overnight.... Treat all my above as constructive criticism/suggestion, employ if you wish... Some more editing time/better internet would be nice too. The AR620 -like many 2.4ghz receivers - should be mounted on a surface with free air circulation around it, not encased in sleeping mats, foam or bubble wrap. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted September 14, 2023 Author Share Posted September 14, 2023 Hi Leccyflyer, My AR 620 is stuck to the inside of the fuselage side on a bit of velcro. Nothing else around it. Cheers Toto 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 Thanks leccy, duly noted. The futaba r3008sb instruction sheet says " The R3008sb recieved should be protected from vibration by foam rubber, velcro or similar mounting methods. Protect from moisture. ". I do not have any spectrum kit or instructions, but point taken and noted. Thanks, much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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