CAA Call for Input: Review of UK UAS Regulations Aug 2023

[Cuban8]

Ask around any club and I'd guess that the majority of members don't have a clue as to what this is all about. Some will be aware of something going on, and a very few will be more informed but unlikely to engage in getting involved with reading dull (but important) documents and filling in responses.

I recently spoke on the phone to a club member who was asking about club fees, bmfa etc for next year. Our conversation drifted on to bmfa news for some reason that I don't recall now, and his response was " I never read it, just flick through the pictures" - so he was totally uninformed.

He's a professional man, not a stupid fellow and is a good, safe & enthusiastic member of our club, but anything beyond the essentials of following club rules, paying his bmfa and doing all the basics to fly his models is completely off his agenda.

I submit that his view of our hobby is far from unique and we shouldn't overly expect a mass membership engagement with issues that could well be of vital importance to the operation of the hobby in the coming few years.

We rely on a relatively small number of people to fight everyone's corner in the hope that the dead hand of beaucracy will not choke our hobby too far. So far I think their efforts have been excellent - and while perhaps not being in complete lockstep with their views, this forum does feedback good info for them to consider.

 

[steve too]

Another nasty in CAP 2610. They want to add "or buildings" to sub-category A3 (Q4). At the moment I could do most of my flying in A3, if this change happens, I couldn't.

[Ron Gray]

In my opinion in any ‘responsible’ club the club officials (committee members) should make sure that their members are aware about things like this. OK so not all club members attend meetings (one of the clubs I belong to has a particularly low turn out) but that doesn’t mean that the information can’t be sent out by email or, if it’s more convenient, via Zoom type calls.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I’ve just received an email from the CAA with a link to the report. 
 

In case it’s of interest to those not on their mailing list for any reason, it’s 

 https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?catid=1&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=12449&mc_cid=eb812eafcb&mc_eid=1cac3066a3

[Cuban8]

Ron, one can lead a horse to water but getting it to drink might be tricky.

Meetings, emails, social media and magazines are all very useful tools but if the majority of the audience isn't engaged then the message gets lost. 

Not ideal in the least, but just the way things are and we need to take that into account.

[Ron Gray]

I agree with you @Cuban8but lead them to the water first, then explain what good the water does, if that’s not done then it’s a pretty poor show.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Ron Gray

[Jonathan W]

1 hour ago, leccyflyer said:

Hi Jonathan I'm not seeing how your post is related to anything in my post from a couple of months ago that you've quoted. Did you intend to quote my post?

Hi Leccy,

Sorry about that, I did quote you by accident! I meant to quote the more recent post by Futura57 who mentioned cars with illegal number plates not being subject to any enforcement. I was adding to that by saying that cars with defective lights seem to be ignored also, and that's more of a safety concern than dodgy plates. So expect that enforcement of remote ID will be minimal and only occur when a more serious incident leads to an individual being caught without remote ID.

[leccyflyer]

16 minutes ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

I’ve just received an email from the CAA with a link to the report. 
 

In case it’s of interest to those not on their mailing list for any reason, it’s 

 https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?catid=1&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=12449&mc_cid=eb812eafcb&mc_eid=1cac3066a3

Yep, I received the same email this morning. It makes you wonder why folks complaining about not being informed about such developments quickly enough donlt avail themselves of this service, it's not as if it hasn't been mentioned every time this topic has come up.

[leccyflyer]

No probs Jonathan - I completely agree. I'd be very surprised if the police had any resources or time available to devote to such a wild goose chase, unless and until there was a serious incident, in which case those deliberately flouting the law are most certainly not going to be equipping their devices with the equipment intended to log such abuse.

[Futura57]

What about setting up an online petition (I've no idea how). Alternatively, each club collates a list of member names, addresses and signatures ( I believe this is required for a petition) and forwards it to the BMFA which creates one big united paper petition (nicely bound 😳) and a united response to the CAA. Or some variant on this idea. In addition, every member could send an email with the same responses (decided by the BMFA) and reference the petition. Surely 1,000s of identical responses is better than a dribble of slightly different hand completed questionnaires with nuances in the responses debated ad nauseum on this thread. Just a thought. Or keep the petition at club level and the club submits answers on the member's behalf to the CAA. Squeezing a signature out of everyone shouldn't be too difficult. Ultimately every BMFA member could submit an email with a standard set of answers and reference a petition without having to wade through the impenetrable document.  Is there any mileage in this approach? I think I know the answer. Back to my tea and toast.

 

P.s. sorry if this has been floated before.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Futura57

[RedBaron]

I must admit that I have only followed this topic intermittently but….

 

I do despair on the amount of time wasted just doing the posts, nothing wrong with the contents of the posts I must say immediately. All the while we are doing posts, discussing possible legislation, filling in surveys etc maybe we are being led to avoid the real issue.

 

I do wonder if there should be any legislation at all on any model flyers, there never used to be. How many terrorists etc are going to read all the small print and obey our "laws"?  I think about how many people in the vast bureaucracy of the CAA and related bodies there must be working on this matter. Bureaucracy gone mad, they have lost sight of the fact that the fewer laws the better. The more laws with ever more complication just mean that normal people such as ourselves will never understand it and just sign that we do. Also we should understand this will never get better, once the camel has its nose under the edge of the tent……..

 

Having been a full size glider pilot for most of my life I was a victim of what the CAA did to that body of hobbyists some years back. In my opinion after a vast amount of work they achieved precisely zero on the planned objectives and the glider pilots were bureaucratised and monetised completely unreasonably even to some of them exiting a splendid hobby. Interestingly the whole body of new requirements was unleashed onto the flying public before the requirements were finally published and glider maintenance people and owners just did not know what was really required of them for a very long time and nor did the people in the CAA who they had to contact.

 

I would vote for them all spending their time on legislating that drug dealers and traffickers and illegal invasion boat handlers be forced to transmit ids to the Police and Customs people.

 

 

[steve too]

@Futura57IMHO it is time to bypass the CAA and start writing to MPs and the Secretaries of State at the Home Office and DfT.

 

[GaryW]

2 hours ago, Ron Gray said:

Our club meeting explained, in layman's terms, what this meant.

 

Hell i did did that on here ages ago as i did again on the last page only yesterday...

Basicly we will have 2 choices,,,, Join/Stay with the club you are with ( those that are members of a flying club or looking to join a club ) therefore Remote ID wont be an issue, Or fit Remote ID if you choose to leave the club and/or choose to fly outside a club environment 

[Ron Gray]

1 minute ago, GaryWebb said:

Hell i did did that on here ages ago as i did again on the last page only yesterday..

Very few of either of my club’s members read this forum and those are the ones we need to get ‘on board’.

[Futura57]

11 minutes ago, RedBaron said:

I must admit that I have only followed this topic intermittently but….

 

I do despair on the amount of time wasted just doing the posts, nothing wrong with the contents of the posts I must say immediately. All the while we are doing posts, discussing possible legislation, filling in surveys etc maybe we are being led to avoid the real issue.

 

I do wonder if there should be any legislation at all on any model flyers, there never used to be. How many terrorists etc are going to read all the small print and obey our "laws"?  I think about how many people in the vast bureaucracy of the CAA and related bodies there must be working on this matter. Bureaucracy gone mad, they have lost sight of the fact that the fewer laws the better. The more laws with ever more complication just mean that normal people such as ourselves will never understand it and just sign that we do. Also we should understand this will never get better, once the camel has its nose under the edge of the tent……..

 

Having been a full size glider pilot for most of my life I was a victim of what the CAA did to that body of hobbyists some years back. In my opinion after a vast amount of work they achieved precisely zero on the planned objectives and the glider pilots were bureaucratised and monetised completely unreasonably even to some of them exiting a splendid hobby. Interestingly the whole body of new requirements was unleashed onto the flying public before the requirements were finally published and glider maintenance people and owners just did not know what was really required of them for a very long time and nor did the people in the CAA who they had to contact.

 

I would vote for them all spending their time on legislating that drug dealers and traffickers and illegal invasion boat handlers be forced to transmit ids to the Police and Customs people.

 

 

It's what governments do, keep its citizens in fear in all kinds of ways to obfuscate what's really going on and what the important problems are to be solved, like those mentioned. Politicians are pathetic that they think creating some more little laws here and there will stop say, Islamic extremists, from operating a drone in nefarious ways. I despair, I really do. Now I've depressed myself for the day 😓

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

37 minutes ago, steve too said:

@Futura57IMHO it is time to bypass the CAA and start writing to MPs and the Secretaries of State at the Home Office and DfT.

 

 

Apathy is your enemy there Steve, and even petitions with 100,000 signatures carry little weight, look how few responded to the consultation.

[ken anderson.]

that time of year when its club subs and BMFA subs........and CAA(subs)....i know what i get from the first two but number three i dont?

 

ken anderson....ne...1....£10 dept.

[steve too]

18 minutes ago, ken anderson. said:

that time of year when its club subs and BMFA subs........and CAA(subs)....i know what i get from the first two but number three i dont?

 

You get to sleep easy in your bed knowing that you have contributed to the salary of a CAA quangocrat.

[MattyB]

6 hours ago, steve too said:

Another nasty in CAP 2610. They want to add "or buildings" to sub-category A3 (Q4). At the moment I could do most of my flying in A3, if this change happens, I couldn't.

Yes, I noticed that. I've not read it in detail yet, but from a quick scan it looks like there may be a few additional nasties in the fine print in several areas in addition to the RID requirements...

[GaryW]

At the end of the day just like Christmas,,, Remote ID is coming and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it  Personally in all 100% honesty I support and agree with the introduction of Remote ID

Edited November 24, 2023 by GaryWebb

[steve too]

7 minutes ago, MattyB said:

I've not read it in detail yet

 

I tried to have a second pass through it this afternoon to start drafting my response and a letter to my MP but I had to stop because I was getting really irritated. There are some statements in it that bend reality so far that it almost snaps.

[Graham Bowers]

1 hour ago, GaryWebb said:

At the end of the day just like Christmas,,, Remote ID is coming and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it  Personally in all 100% honesty I support and agree with the introduction of Remote ID

 

Not really a fan of Christmas, if the truth be told, mainly due to the commercialisation. Which coincidentally, is probably at the root of the airspace regulation - in my opinion.

[Outrunner]

4 hours ago, GaryWebb said:

Personally in all 100% honesty I support and agree with the introduction of Remote ID

Are you mad?

[GaryW]

56 minutes ago, Outrunner said:

Are you mad?

 

Nope

 

[MattyB]

1 hour ago, Outrunner said:

Are you mad?

Just read from about pg 13 of this very thread, everything you need to know is there…. 

 

Edited November 24, 2023 by MattyB