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The future of ic engines in our hobby.


kevin b
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8 hours ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

How true.

 

On Saturday, the best flying day in (short term) memory our pits area was full of foam EDF jets with just a handful of EP propeller driven models.  The only internal combustion engines were propelling members' cars - and even then, the proportion of electric cars arriving at the club is steadily increasing.  I had nearly taken a "proper" model but due to a bit of ongoing personal maintenance work, I needed to avoid lifting too much so I let the IC side down as well.

Direct contrast to our club on Saturday. 2 ic only flyers, 1 electric only, and 2 with a mixture. I think there were 3 glow engines (I refuse to call them Nitro...), and 6 petrol engines (I refuse to call them Gas or Gassers).  

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10 minutes ago, Stuart Z said:

Absolutely!  
 

(Fuel stored at one end of garage in unplugged fridge, batteries in BatSafe at the other end). 
 

S

 

My lipos are in metal fire resistant box next to fridge in kitchen and glow fuel & diesel is in cupboard under the kitchen sink

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I have i currently have 5 glow engine powered models  will be 6 as from Thursday 2 of which are helicopters, 5 electric powered models 2 of which are quadcopters, 1 diesel powered glider, and will have a zenoah petrol engine model as from next monday... oh and a couple of project models in the loft.. so basically ive not got much to fly or much choice on power

Edited by GaryW
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Just building a 1/6th scale Aeronca C3, would be an ideal candidate for electrictrickery, but I'm sticking with plan A of the Vega 50T. Lots of electric models though too.

 

Why can't the petrol engines be supplied with silencers, I refuse to call the standard item a silencer.

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15 hours ago, 911hillclimber said:

Just my take on this subject. I last flew/used IC when in short trousers almost and I cycled everywhere.

I was 12, so about 1964.

In 2020 I had retired early and fancied a return to model flight for some weekday action, preferably with vintage planes, ie Ben Buckle.

 

However, what was all this RC malarky?

I needed a trainer, so bought a foam Kingfisher with electric and all the gubbins needed and joined the local club.

IC there is restricted to say the least, so electric was ideal, fly any day that allowed it weather-wise.

Preparation very simple, charge the night before, go and learn to fly (not quite there yet).

 

My 'buddy'/trainer flies a 4 stroke and it is really nice, love the sound, lover the performance (heavy plane cuts the air).

 

However, cannot see me doing an IC ever, electric is just so convenient, bit lazy maybe, but I feel the right thing for me to restart the hobby.

Is electric the future, I think it is, BUT, if you try a little, IC can be the way for ages.

Fuel and noise will determine the way it travels, or rather glides, to the ground.

 

I'll be long gone, but have memories of my new found hobby as electric, and a distant memory of my ENYA glow in my control line.

P1060515.JPG

 

 

I'm the polar opposite of you Hillclimber, I can't abide the asthmatic wheeze of an electric motor! Indeed I'm thinking of removing the electric motor from my Super 60 and fitting a small fourstroke.

 

I love the challenge of getting an engine adjusted so that it runs spot on.

 

For example last week I had just finished a Baron ready for La Coupe Des Barons in June. It is powered by a Magnum 52FS. Though the engine ran well, every time the throttle stick was pulled back below the half way position the engine would cut. I carefully adjusted the throttle pushrod and aligned the servo output arm and the throttle lever but the problem persisted. I tried the travel adjust function without success then reverted to using the sub trim feature on my DX9 for the first time. That solved the problem.

 

How I ever managed all those years ago on that Sanwa Conquest, I'll never understand!

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Doesn't subtrim just achieve the same as mechanically adjusting the throttle linkage.....?

 

Whilst I like the instant gratification of an electrically powered model, I love the way an engine gets persuaded into life.  

 

Totally agree re the exhaust deflectors supplied with petrol engines. I had one fall off and noticed no difference in noise....

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11 minutes ago, GrumpyGnome said:

Doesn't subtrim just achieve the same as mechanically adjusting the throttle linkage.....?

 

Whilst I like the instant gratification of an electrically powered model, I love the way an engine gets persuaded into life.  

 

Totally agree re the exhaust deflectors supplied with petrol engines. I had one fall off and noticed no difference in noise....

 

Maybe, I've never used it before but i couldn't get the engine to run satisfactorily using old school methods.

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I can't see there being much money in small engines. Without money there will be no commercial offerings. There is money where there is mass market, and some where there is expensive fancy sunday bests. The expensive fancy sunday bests are no longer mid-to-large size glow, instead that seems to be big petrols, going up to massive motorbike sized petrol radials for 1/3 scale warbirds, then there are turbines, etc. The mass market in small engines? Might be something with RC cars I guess.

 

Everyone wanted electric. Now we have electric. Electric power makes props turn round but is quite dull. Electric does not have the mechanical beauty of a finely engineered IC. That's ok if you don't really care about the motor as a toy in and of itself; if you simply want to plug in a battery and fly. Not everyone wants a swiss watch, but, anyone who wants to mess about with small engines is the minority and the minority does not get a diverse selection of manufacturers vying for our cash.

 

I also don't see very many on here rushing out buying new small or mid size glow motors (with the exception of some Laser aficionados, although that has now ended, not sure what you guys are going to splash out on now. OS? Saito? Move up to a big Valach?

 

20cc and up is still dominated by petrol, so that's an indication of what people want, in that size. The 2 strokes are easy enough to operate and probably cost a lot less than electric, following recent price rises on electric clobber. Seems to be a future there.

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Nigel

I fear you have hit the nail on the head.

I am sure IC engines will continue to be produced for many years but as you point out without a high volume the range of engines will reduce and the cost will go up..

Whilst this may no be too much of a problem for the current users it could mean a bleak future.

 

After all has not the same sort of thing happened with ARTF and particularly with moulded foam scale?

Accurate highly detailed electric power and maybe a "multi" at a price likely not far removed form the cost of buying the materials and parts to build the same from scratch.   

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21 hours ago, Murat Kece 1 said:

I think like the cars IC is dying of.. Electric is the future.

 

IC cars and IC model engines are totally different worlds witrh totally different issues. Whereas electric is a viable alternative for most models, electric is most certainly not the panacea for cars despite all the propaganda.

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12 hours ago, GaryW said:

 

My lipos are in metal fire resistant box next to fridge in kitchen and glow fuel & diesel is in cupboard under the kitchen sink

Ah.

Another member of the unmarried modellers club.    😂

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2 minutes ago, kevin b said:

Ah.

Another member of the unmarried modellers club.    😂

 

Hate to dissapoint but I've actually been married 19 yrs  but thanks for the invitation to the club......:classic_laugh:

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25 minutes ago, Simon Chaddock said:

Nigel

I fear you have hit the nail on the head.

I am sure IC engines will continue to be produced for many years but as you point out without a high volume the range of engines will reduce and the cost will go up..

Whilst this may no be too much of a problem for the current users it could mean a bleak future.

 

After all has not the same sort of thing happened with ARTF and particularly with moulded foam scale?

Accurate highly detailed electric power and maybe a "multi" at a price likely not far removed form the cost of buying the materials and parts to build the same from scratch.   

 

I'm just saying what I see Simon; I agree entirely with what you say.

 

Everyone wanted ARTF, so we had ARTF, now ARTF is too expensive for a lot of people and the volume goes down. ARTF were very cheap, artificially I suspect (because various global/political factors which have now changed), and now they are not cheap, and shifting in lower volumes. I agree, a similar problem, but market forces are what they are.

 

Balsa and glow?

Perhaps, liteply and petrol.

 

Times change. None of us can predict the future. It will not be so bleak as all that. Just... different.

 

Maybe in 10 years, turbines will cost 1/2 what they do now... 10 years ago, a foamie jet with a tiny turbine was still sci-fi.

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20 hours ago, Stuart Z said:

It’s sad to think IC is disappearing I think the IC engines still have a great deal going for them and a lot more character.  Learning  to manage them is something to be learnt -yes- but electrics leave me confused and Lipo’s are a potential disaster if mishandled and can explode in the extreme.  I looked at the cost of converting one of my IC models to electric and the cost was alarming.  The cost of batteries is significant to the extent that the project has been shelved.  Let alone  having additional batteries in the garage.  Fortunately I have plenty of engines still in stock.  I have enough fuel to last me and it is stable in the fridge.  A big argument against IC is the noise but a good silencer solves that and I have the silencers to cope with all my engines.  Seems that most model shows and many clubs have users of large petrol engine some of which are both large and quite loud, but these seem to be quite acceptable. 

It very much depends - I don't agree that eletric needs to be prohibitively expensive when converting an IC model. Maybe a large and heavy type but most sport types of around the usual 55" to 65" size or thereabouts are usually very viable. There's enough info around to prevent mishandling and there's really no need for any confusion regarding electric setups given the advice available from sources like 4Max.

IC noise is not necessary as you say - the old Irvine Q series engines proved that years ago.

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17 minutes ago, kevin b said:

Ah.

Another member of the unmarried modellers club.    😂

 

Even turning one of the kitchen worktops into a Hobby Bench and half the hallway cupboard/walk-in wardrobe into a model hanger didnt come close to finding me apply to join that exclusive club........ well not yet it hasnt........so yes SWMBO is very easy going.......:classic_blink:

 

 

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426295048_10161642736762915_3109112305882508684_n (1).jpg

Edited by GaryW
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1 hour ago, Cuban8 said:

It very much depends - I don't agree that eletric needs to be prohibitively expensive when converting an IC model. Maybe a large and heavy type but most sport types of around the usual 55" to 65" size or thereabouts are usually very viable. There's enough info around to prevent mishandling and there's really no need for any confusion regarding electric setups given the advice available from sources like 4Max.

IC noise is not necessary as you say - the old Irvine Q series engines proved that years ago.

Thanks for your thoughts. As I said I did look at cost and it was more than I would want to pay as it would have cost nearly as much as a small foamy model.  The batteries are another large cost and the associated issues with Lipos.  So I struggled to justify spending the money.  I’m happy with IC as I don’t like having batteries stored in numbers.  I will be sad (or gone) when IC is not viable. 

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One other aspect which hasn't really been addressed it that there does seem to be a bit of a nostalgic uptick in the use of small diesel engines, though I accept that could conceivably just be my perception since I'm noticing them more, having brought a few back into use. However there's certainly a number of FB groups dedicated to vintage diesel usage. I've kept a very small number of glow engines, for purely sentimental reasons, but now have more small diesels than glows and a sum total of about half a dozen small engines. The fuel is ruinously expensive and they are undoubtedly messy, but I'm hoping to have my first diesel powered flights later in the spring when the weather improves a bit- since I'm far too nesh to be bothering with diesels in the freezing cold of winter.

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3 hours ago, GaryW said:

 

Even turning one of the kitchen worktops into a Hobby Bench and half the hallway cupboard/walk-in wardrobe into a model hanger didnt come close to finding me apply to join that exclusive club........ well not yet it hasnt........so yes SWMBO is very easy going.......:classic_blink:

 

 

427961045_10161649361657915_8801031422213309860_n.jpg

429989274_10161681883467915_2210807666609967893_n.jpg

425345890_10161632430247915_4396888591140704365_n.jpg

426295048_10161642736762915_3109112305882508684_n (1).jpg

 

Does she have a sister ?   ☺️

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