JackCook Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 Hi Folks I'm a Scotsman living in Australia (please don't hate me). I am considering returning to the UK to live. What is the cost and availability of glow fuel in the UK these day? Here is Aus I pay about 65 UK quids for 5 litres of Klotz oil. 80 quid for 5 litres of nitro and 30 quid for 20 litres of methanol. I have to mail order the oil and nitro but the methanol is local. How does that compare to your prices? Also, how are you managing with ethanol petrol? Do model aircraft engines run OK on it? Or are you separating the petrol? We can still buy 98 octane unleaded here. For the moment at least. cheers Jack PS excuse my colloquial terms but my Aussie keyboard doesn't have a pounds sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 Hi Jack Hopefully you're considering returning just because you miss the eain! I'm afraid I've never bought individual ingredients for fuel so can't comment on that. Ready made glow fuel (last time I ordered some a few months ago) was between 21 pounds sterling and 35 pounds sterling depending on brand, mix, and nitromethane content. Shipping is expensive as it has to come by courier not Royal Mail. For example, a well known model shop was 22 pounds for a gallon, plus 10 pounds shipping. However, some retailers will deliver free if you buy in units of 4. Some people hate this fuel though.... I've always been happy with it. I prefer to use 5% ethanol in my petrol engines simply because that is what I used to set them up. As with many things in this hobby, opinions on 10% vary.... hopefully some others will chip in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackCook Posted April 22 Author Share Posted April 22 Thanks Gnome (you dont sound grumpy at all) Premix is between 33 and 38 pounds here depending on nitro percentage. So not to different. I dont mind premix, the stuff we get here is basically what I mix myself. But self mixing is about half the price. We have weird shipping rules. If I mail order nitro it can be sent regular post, but if it crosses a state line it gets about 50 quid added for being a dangerous liquid. Even though the shop over the state line is much closer than where I actually get it. Imaginary lines on the map can be costly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 I've run petrol engines on standard 10% ethanol, seem to run ok on it, but the problem maybe degradation of elastomers, e.g carb diaphram, perishing, not done enough running to determine if this is a problem. You can buy synthetic petrol, no ethanol, but it's about 3x the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 When I enquired in boots the chemist, I was thought of as a terrorist. When I enquired in the other chemists shop in town, and explaining why I wanted these liquids, the prices where just stupidly expensive. Internet, eBay, us cheaper but delivery is the problem. I probably will go with Weston's when my present stock runs out, defo by autumn. Saving hard for a petrol engine about a 40 size. The laser jar has been relabeled..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 Weston Prosynth 5% nitro is currently a nose under £20. Four gallons comes with free shipping. I have found their fuel to be perfectly ok. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackCook Posted April 22 Author Share Posted April 22 Thanks for the input guys. You know you can remove the ethanol from petrol if you want to? Search youtube. There are loads of videos. Its easy. Just add water. Ethanol mixes with the water but the water/ethanol doesn't mix with the petrol. So wait until it separates then drain the petrol off. I've never needed to do this as I can buy 91, 95 and 98 octane without ethanol. But some UK vintage motorcycle riders I know de-ethanol their old bike fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 I only use 98 octane it is ethanol free, and mix my own, 3% synthetic 2 stroke oil. My Yamaha strictly states No ethanol, if you can't get it buy the 2 stroke ready mixed chain saw stuff, ok it is gold-plated but cheaper than a crashing a plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 1 hour ago, Frank Skilbeck said: I've run petrol engines on standard 10% ethanol, seem to run ok on it, but the problem maybe degradation of elastomers, e.g carb diaphram, perishing, not done enough running to determine if this is a problem. You can buy synthetic petrol, no ethanol, but it's about 3x the cost. I don’t use aircraft petrol engines. But I use small auxiliary outboards for my boat. I use synthetic petrol only. The water absorbed by the ethanol/petrol mix, causes all sorts of problems. So much so, I’m busy repairing peoples engines (spring, moter won’t start as it was not winterised). To keep the numbers down I do no favours, and charge main dealer prices, and tell them why it would not start. Surprisingly, I get repeat customers, always bleating “I forgot” (J'ai oublié.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 7 minutes ago, Don Fry said: won’t start as it was not winterised) I'm assuming this means you get issues with the carb seals / diaphragms or similar, due to the water absorbtion? Would continued use prevent this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 3 minutes ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said: I only use 98 octane it is ethanol free, and mix my own, 3% synthetic 2 stroke oil. My Yamaha strictly states No ethanol, if you can't get it buy the 2 stroke ready mixed chain saw stuff, ok it is gold-plated but cheaper than a crashing a plane. Are you sure Paul, I used to use 98 octane when ethanol came to the 95 octane, but a few years ago, the 98 took on 5% ethanol and the 95 took on 10% ethanol. That was when I stopped using petrol for my stuff. Check the pump when you next buy some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 Just now, Nigel R said: I'm assuming this means you get issues with the carb seals / diaphragms or similar, due to the water absorbtion? Would continued use prevent this? Yes, but the first time you leave petrol/ethanol mix in the engine after a few days, it starts to harden rubbers, and next you quickly get what looks like semi liquid chewing gum in the carb what quickly blocks the needle(s). No some folk claim they won’t forget, or are always in a position to perform the task. I do and am not always in that position. So I buy synthetic petrol, it’s cheaper and easier than repairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engine Doctor Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 Hi Don the 97 oct fuel like BP ultimate or Shell V power although thry have to be sold as E5 dont contain ethanol .There is a sign on the pumps "suitable for all cars". Its still worth checking though as I believe the ethanol is mixed with the petrol when it deliveredto the prtrol station. Simple test is to mix with water . I still add the lucas fuel protector to my 25 year old car just in case. For my garden petrol tools and plane engines i just buy E5 supermarket with 5% ethanol and remove it with a water mix . I find that all my two stroke and my 4stroke mower run far better without any ethanol and no issues after a winter layup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 33 minutes ago, Don Fry said: Are you sure Paul, I used to use 98 octane when ethanol came to the 95 octane, but a few years ago, the 98 took on 5% ethanol and the 95 took on 10% ethanol. That was when I stopped using petrol for my stuff. Check the pump when you next buy some. Yes you are right Don from 2% to 7.5% 😡 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 A problem for home mixers in the UK is that nitromethane is classed as an explosive precursor and you need to hold an Explosives Precursor and Poisons licence to obtain or store anything from 30% content upwards. This requires checks on the applicant and intended uses and a fee for issue and subsequent renewals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackCook Posted April 22 Author Share Posted April 22 28 minutes ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said: A problem for home mixers in the UK is that nitromethane is classed as an explosive precursor and you need to hold an Explosives Precursor and Poisons licence to obtain or store anything from 30% content upwards. This requires checks on the applicant and intended uses and a fee for issue and subsequent renewals. Holy cow! Really! I buy 5 litre cans in toy shops here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 I kid you not… https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/supplying-explosives-precursors/supplying-explosives-precursors-and-poison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 I haven't read the above but was the nitro content dropped to 15 percent, from memory. Yes, water and ethanol like each other, a good way to remove the ethanol from modern petrol, but requires a "dedicated step up etc , which is no big deal if you have the space. Living on the 27th floor, forget it ! Screwfix and other similar companies sell stuff in small bottles for quite a few pounds, which seems to work, so far at any rate. Some confusion may be happening in this thread between petrol for vehicles and machines such as outboard motors etc., And petrol powered model aircraft engines, perhaps ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J D 8 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 This thread was about glow fuel price, nothing to do about petrol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 The OP also asked about Ethanol in petrol...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 1 hour ago, Rich Griff said: I haven't read the above but was the nitro content dropped to 15 percent, from memory. If you read the above or even just search it you can quickly see it is still 30%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 Nitro is also illegal to buy neat in france, as it is classed as an explosive, off the shelf you can buy up to 16% nitro, over that you need a model competition licence with an authorisation from the French model federation. Unless you use petrol with ethanol in it,,,😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterF Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 4 hours ago, Rich Griff said: I haven't read the above but was the nitro content dropped to 15 percent, from memory. IIRC the government wanted to reduce it to 15%, held a consultation and got pushback from BMFA and probably the RC car fraternity and probably other users/ producers and it was set at 30% so ready mixed high nitro fuels did not get included. Can not remember the exact details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackCook Posted April 22 Author Share Posted April 22 10 hours ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said: I kid you not… https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/supplying-explosives-precursors/supplying-explosives-precursors-and-poison I worked in the swimming pool industry for 16 years here. I was driving around with quite a few of those banned substances in the back of my van. Hydrochloric acid, oxalic acid, hydrogen peroxide. They are all available off the shelf in pool shops in as large a quantity as you like. Although, in a country which doesn't really have rusty cars I managed to rot the floor out of two vans. Its just as well the UK is to cold for swimming pools cos you cant buy pool products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 It’s not a case that you can’t buy these products if you have a legitimate reason for having them. You have to prove you’re of good character as well - not unlike obtaining a shotgun certificate. …and send the government some money - not a ridiculous amount though. I wonder if you need a licence to grow rhubarb now! The leaves are rich in oxalic acid… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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