Peter Beeney Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 On an historical note, I’m 99.5% sure that of the five fatalities in the UK that I’m aware of they were all 60 or less powered models. One was a trainer, one was a 19 powered model, dead-stick, one was a glider and two were aerobatic models. I’m sure this is not significant, these are probably the most popular types, by far, but it does seem to indicate that the the risk covers all models. And it now looks as though there might be some confusion on the B test front for a while. Sometimes it seemed to me that this occurred naturally without any help from rule changes anyway……….PB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasa_steve Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Posted by John Privett on 12/02/2011 18:31:46:Hi nasa, Unfortunately the info you have is now out of date. It does seem to have been rather badly-handled, but the B test schedule was updated to remove those concessions, coming into effect on 1st January 2011. However they seem to have neglected to update the documentation or to notify the examiners... The info is available in various committee minutes if you've got a few hours to spare trawling through the BMFA site. I think it may have been mentioned in a recent BMFA News too. thanks John i was not aware of this and i do thus retract my previous statement which incidentally was copied and pasted direct from the BMFA's website funny they can't even manage the simple task of updating their website let alone keeping their examiners in the loop. All hail the old Dinasoar that is indeed the BMFA a simple email to their examiners or even a bulletin in the insurance pack that came out would have ensured to most points that their examiners were told of the pending changes ive not received a copy of that particular BMFA news and was thus unaware of its introduction so obviously this was news to me i had heard some chatter about standing behind a model during take-off but that was all i had heard thanks for the update. good old BMFA dropped another clanger i wonder how many other examiners out there that are in the same boat.nasa Edited By nasa_steve on 12/02/2011 20:02:14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 The scheme has very recently changed, or is in the process of being changed. I12fly is absolutely correct. Our Area Chief Examiner is a member of the Achievement Scheme Review Committee so I have it from the horse's mouth... EDIT Sorry for the unnecessary post - my screen hadn't updated for some reason despite refreshing it! Edited By Martin Harris on 12/02/2011 20:51:38 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Major changes in the rules at any club, especially if they introduce an element of restriction on members, are never going to be popular. But I think you might have seen this one coming as it were TD. A lot of clubs, including mine, already have this rule. I'd just like to pick up on point made earlier by Andy - he quite reasonably asks the question what is the point of passing a test which seems to be mainly about your ability to fly certain aerobatic moves if your sole wish is to fly your large warbird in a scale like manner. Afterall, as he says, you are hardly likely to want to do a three turn spin and precission exit with a big warbird. (I hope you feel I have captured the spirit of your post accurately Colin?). With respect I think that this slightly misses the point of aeros in flying training. Aerobatics have long played a role in pilot training (full size and model) and perhaps the best analogy I can give is its a bit like a musician practicing scales and finger exercises. He doesn't intend to go onto the concert platform and play them, but their constant practice, and the technical demands they impose, mean that his technique is strengthened. This means that what he does decide to play he plays very much better and he is operating on stage well within the limits of his technical capabilities. If you can fly a nice tidy loop (a deceptively difficult task!) in a slight cross wind, putting in the small corrections necessary to hold your line then you have demonstrated clearly that you are in full control of your model. Which is surely something we all would want to feel was the case of someone flying a 15kg "lump" around the sky in relatively close proximity to other people! Also, specifically in the case of the spin. We may not intend to spin our large scale models - but experience tells me it does happen unplanned even in the best of families! Surely having the confidence to be certain that if it happens you know, and have sucessfully demonstrated, the correct recovery proceedure and can bring about a controlled return to normal flight is a desirable state of affairs? In short, practicing aeros is a good way to generally improve our flying and takes us into situations outside our person comfort zone. It also prvides us with "emergency drills" for those unexpected situations that crop up. In my view that's no bad thing. In doing this it also helps to drive up standards. On balance, whilst like most people, I don't like regulation just for its own sake or to make some people feel "important" or "in control", I support the view that someone who wants to fly large models should really have to demonstrate that their flying ability is such that they can fly under control (even in complex situations) and that they have a more than minimum capability. Have to fly a series of basic aerobatics and standard flight proceedures such as take off and landing etc., such as the B cert test is as good a way of estabishing this as any in my view. BEB Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 12/02/2011 22:23:33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy watson Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 That's fine BEB, except for the person that's just shelled out several hundred quid for a model he might now be banned from flying. I can see the general point you are making, but I stand by my assertion that most clubs have a catch all rule about pilots must have either be judged capable of flying a plane whether they have an A/B/C licence (for example not permitting someone to solo who is returning to the hobby after a very long break). I also suggest that ANO 73/74 (I think that's the numbers!) regarding flying endangering life/property would also cover the situation if there was a cause for concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Obviously, I can't speak for other clubs but I would hope a club introducing such a rule would introduce it sympathetically with due regard to the competence of their members. For instance, a suitable period for pilots already flying large models to gain the B before general enforcement might be reasonable or "grandfather rights" could be granted to flyers with demonstrated ability and recorded by the club's examiner/committee. At the end of the day, the club is the members and if the majority want to go down a certain path then those disagreeing have 3 choices: accept the majority opinion, try to change the club's viewpoint or find another club where they fit in better. Edited By Martin Harris on 13/02/2011 00:30:50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultymate Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Posted by andy watson on 12/02/2011 22:21:42: That's fine BEB, except for the person that's just shelled out several hundred quid for a model he might now be banned from flying. I can see the general point you are making, but I stand by my assertion that most clubs have a catch all rule about pilots must have either be judged capable of flying a plane whether they have an A/B/C licence (for example not permitting someone to solo who is returning to the hobby after a very long break). I also suggest that ANO 73/74 (I think that's the numbers!) regarding flying endangering life/property would also cover the situation if there was a cause for concern. I would suggest Andy that the pilot whose shelled out £100's or £K of pounds has researched his subject poorly. It's been a BMFA "Recommendation " for a good few years now that pilots of over 7Kilo models have a "B" test yes some of the clubs have been tardy in introducing this recommendation as a rule but I would suggest that there are more clubs with this rule than not. Indeed as has already been stated some clubs will not allow over 7K models at all I'm not saying the BMFA achievement scheme is perfect by any means but it has to be better than a free for all situation that went before. Bear in mind that nowadays anyone with the finance can buy half scale models over the counter or internet with the relevant gear and engines, you don't even need any amount of building skills to get the said aircraft into the air. The hobby has moved on to such a degree that it must surely face some regulation and I just don't see the principle of "no line in the sand" working. If a pilot is so interested in large models I don't see the attainment of a "B" certificate as some great hurdle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Williams Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 I am the pilot who spent hundreds of pounds on such models, when I did so the club was in agreement I could fly them. In comparison its like the government coming along and saying I'm sorry but you may no longer drive your 3lt porche unless you take a test to prove you can drive it in a manner that you would never do anyway! I have read though this post with interest, and some very valid points are made. I think the idea of Grandfather Rights for existing members is fair>> A period of time to prepare for and take the test is a consideration. I don’t like the idea of a blanket ban the situation should be looked at on a individual basis. I agree that members with more money than ability have to be governed.I am concerned that the BMFA has communication issues it seems the standards could vary with different examiners. Our own examiner still thinks that you must take the A with an IC model and electric is not permitted. I will print off the post and relay it to our committee I must thank everyone who has taken the trouble to write.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Ultymate Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Please don't think I don't sympathise with your individual case Paul, I do, but this "problem" if you see it as such has been on the radar for a good few years and some clubs have adapted a head in the sand attitude to it, no doubt hoping it would go away. They then end up trying to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted. Thankfully my club dealt with this when the first large models started appearing at our field. I do hope your club cut you some slack and allow you some leeway to continue flying your warbird whilst getting your "B" test Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... John Privett Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Posted by Paul Williams on 13/02/2011 10:07:32:In comparison its like the government coming along and saying I'm sorry but you may no longer drive your 3lt porche unless you take a test to prove you can drive it in a manner that you would never do anyway! Paul - something a bit like that has been done with driving licences, but invoking an element of "grandfather rights." I took my driving test in 1976 and my licence permits me to drive vehicles (most of which I've never driven!) that my daughter who took her test in 2008 isn't permitted to drive with her licence. I gather there are now separate tests for some of the larger vehicles and/or vehicle/trailer combinations that I have "grandfather rights" to drive, but anyone taking a car test nowadays isn't. For the record, I think a requirement for a B to fly >7kg models is a sensible one, but the transition has to be considered carefully to account for cases like yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Andy Harris Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Before the BMFA put some clarity into the 'A' for electric models our club introduced a rule that an electric model needed to be at least 2kg (with batteries) to qualify for the 'A' test. This meant that the Mini Pulse and Addiction that my son and I trained on were too small. The leeway was that we were allowed to fly these smaller models without a buddy lead but with a 'B' member or instructor standing by. This seems like a perfectly good practical application of the rules at the time. Perhaps Paul could fly his warbird with a 'B' or instructor as a helpful observer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Myron Beaumont Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Well Watch out y'all -Here comes grumpy . What a contentious issue isn't it with lots of very valid & varying contributions from mostly experienced fliers ?. Speaking on my own behalf as never having flown with a club affiliated to the BMFA, although I was a member of one for the last 4 years, I have some rather different views (as you may have come to expect by now) as a dedicated solo man -not just as a flier of most disciplines -but life in general. In general I just hate being told by a "suit" as I call them just what I can & cannot do in my life , So far I've gone from nothing to recently living on a beautiful 40 acre farm on my own bat with help from like minded friends along the way .WHICH brings me to my point "What is a club?" With my own land now available ,I intend to suppliment the small caravan / fishing/ ramblers refuge /egg sales /spring water sales with a site for model fliers and model boat enthusiasts on our stretch of river. No-one is going to make rules and/or rules but me , How I hear you say ? Simple -get to know each individual that comes along and personally assess their capabilities .No committees -Just my judgement .I hope that once everyone knows everybody 's ability then we get together and provide help & a watchful eye for a few minutes to be aware of what might or might not happen . There's an old fashioned (now redundant)name for it & it doesn't include one piece of paper It's what was called COMMON SENSE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Martin Harris - Moderator Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 There's certainly no reason why the "benevolent dictator" approach shouldn't work in your circumstances but in a club situation you would be lucky indeed to find a single person who would be accepted in this role by the entire membership. The normal committee approach is needed to apply checks and balances - some discussions do ramble along but it can be difficult for a single person to see all facets of every situation. Generally, club members get what they are prepared to accept and it's usually a truism that the empty vessels make the most noise - in various clubs I've experienced, very few habitual complainers are willing to stand for a committee place and actually try to influence matters. Luckily, my present club seems to get along without any major areas of discontent - but as I'm currently chairman I guess I would have to think that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Tom Wright 2 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Wise and accurate comment Martin,your appraisal all so applies well to the full size f lying club. Myron Our rc flying group ,as we call it, operates successfully ,with not a bit of paper in sight, half our numbers are ppl , and we are all bmfa members.Edited By tom wright 2 on 13/02/2011 14:56:40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Stephen Grigg Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 our club has a couple of new committee members who seem intent on rule making and upholding,yet seem to flaunt the rules there making others adhere to.Weve recently started having pilotsboxes depending on the direction of wind.When the wind constantly changing we supposed to be running up and down the pitts,total rubbish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Alan Cantwell Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 making it a club rule that a B cert is required is sound, i have no problems with that, trouble is, i have seen B cert pilots who are--errm--a tad haphazard, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... i12fly Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Alan C has a very good point. There is some variation in Examiners. Ours are quite strict (I don't disagree), but I know some who think being able to do the manoevres, even if out of line etc is enough for a B providing they judge them 'safe pilots'...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I've only ever been in two clubs, and I've flown at the "fun days"/"fly ins" etc of a number of others. I often read people's comments on here and other places, about their own clubs and sometimes even seemingly about "clubs" in general. I've got to say, in all honesty, I don't recognise most of these issues people raise. I'm not a club committee member - and frankly I've never sought to be one. But I've also never felt angry or upset about any decision a club committee has made - their decisions have always seemed to me sensitive and sensible. They are well thought out, reasonable proposals aimed at allowing a group of individuals to undertake a complex hobby using shared facilities in a safe and sucessful way. Now, have I just been lucky? Maybe I've just hit on the two clubs in the country that are reasonably run. I doubt it. Or is it maybe my personality - I've been trained in my job to work in teams and generally I would decribe myself as a "joiner" not a "loner". I suppose there are clubs were the committee contains elements that are "jobs worths" but my experience would suggest that such folks would get pretty short shrift at any club I've experienced if they really were making silly rules just for the sake of it. Could it be the case then, that in some instances at least, the reality is that one or two of us are just a little bit selfish and self-centred? Resisting any rule change that might inconvienience us personally. Refusing to see the bigger picture, that while the rule change might cause us some small problem the fact is that it really is for the greater good of the group as a whole? This raises of course the thorny problem of the rights of the individual versus the good of the majority. Perhaps one or two RC flyers see this with just a little too much slant towards the rights of the individual and down-value the rights of the group. Perhaps we need to remember that being part of society, or a Society (i.e. club), sometimes requires personal compromises, that's the price we pay for enjoying the hobby with others and being able to share the cost of facilities. Just a thought... BEBEdited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 13/02/2011 18:24:27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... CARPERFECT Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Question ? Do you have to hold a (B) certificate to fly at public events/shows for your BMFA insurance to cover you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... ken anderson. Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 go on myron....you've stated you're going to make the rule's for your new place...which bring's you into the 'suit' category you keep mentioning .... well done.. ken anderson ne...1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... stu knowles Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I don't have a problem with a B / LMA cert of competence being required for show and event pilots, however for general 'in club' flying, personally I think that forcing the possession of A & B certificates is unnecessary. The scheme was not designed for this purpose and possession of same is no guarantee of good flying. I don't think that it absolves a club from properly policing its members if it becomes necessary and if it doesn't become necessary - because flying is safe- why compel someone to take the test stu k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... nasa_steve Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 without a B certificate or an LMA certificate you would not be allowed to fly at any of the normally organised public shows or events etc. organisers see the B as an accepted standard of flying/ability to be allowed to fly in front of the public. i'm pretty sure your insurance would still cover you BUT the organisers insurance probably would notnasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... CARPERFECT Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Reason for asking about (B) for shows, was last year i went to Harrogate model engineers show at the Old Show Ground and The West Yorkshire club were there and some of the pilots flying Hellies did not even have (A) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Ultymate Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Posted by Stephen Grigg on 13/02/2011 16:26:26: our club has a couple of new committee members who seem intent on rule making and upholding,yet seem to flaunt the rules there making others adhere to.Weve recently started having pilotsboxes depending on the direction of wind.When the wind constantly changing we supposed to be running up and down the pitts,total rubbish Stephen if you have these two committee members acting in this manner you have the ultimate sanction in your hands ie vote them off at your next AGM SSSsssimples Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Lee Smalley Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 i am a great believer of the A and B scheme but i can't agree with it being used for 7 to 20 kg models there are models in this range that fly like trainers so i can't agree Jets yes! should be a B holder, other than that !!!! Edited By Lee Smalley on 14/02/2011 08:38:21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply Share More sharing options... Followers 0 Go to topic listing Latest Posts Home MAIN TOPICS Flying Sites and Clubs Club Rules
Ultymate Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Please don't think I don't sympathise with your individual case Paul, I do, but this "problem" if you see it as such has been on the radar for a good few years and some clubs have adapted a head in the sand attitude to it, no doubt hoping it would go away. They then end up trying to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted. Thankfully my club dealt with this when the first large models started appearing at our field. I do hope your club cut you some slack and allow you some leeway to continue flying your warbird whilst getting your "B" test Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Privett Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Posted by Paul Williams on 13/02/2011 10:07:32:In comparison its like the government coming along and saying I'm sorry but you may no longer drive your 3lt porche unless you take a test to prove you can drive it in a manner that you would never do anyway! Paul - something a bit like that has been done with driving licences, but invoking an element of "grandfather rights." I took my driving test in 1976 and my licence permits me to drive vehicles (most of which I've never driven!) that my daughter who took her test in 2008 isn't permitted to drive with her licence. I gather there are now separate tests for some of the larger vehicles and/or vehicle/trailer combinations that I have "grandfather rights" to drive, but anyone taking a car test nowadays isn't. For the record, I think a requirement for a B to fly >7kg models is a sensible one, but the transition has to be considered carefully to account for cases like yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Harris Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Before the BMFA put some clarity into the 'A' for electric models our club introduced a rule that an electric model needed to be at least 2kg (with batteries) to qualify for the 'A' test. This meant that the Mini Pulse and Addiction that my son and I trained on were too small. The leeway was that we were allowed to fly these smaller models without a buddy lead but with a 'B' member or instructor standing by. This seems like a perfectly good practical application of the rules at the time. Perhaps Paul could fly his warbird with a 'B' or instructor as a helpful observer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myron Beaumont Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Well Watch out y'all -Here comes grumpy . What a contentious issue isn't it with lots of very valid & varying contributions from mostly experienced fliers ?. Speaking on my own behalf as never having flown with a club affiliated to the BMFA, although I was a member of one for the last 4 years, I have some rather different views (as you may have come to expect by now) as a dedicated solo man -not just as a flier of most disciplines -but life in general. In general I just hate being told by a "suit" as I call them just what I can & cannot do in my life , So far I've gone from nothing to recently living on a beautiful 40 acre farm on my own bat with help from like minded friends along the way .WHICH brings me to my point "What is a club?" With my own land now available ,I intend to suppliment the small caravan / fishing/ ramblers refuge /egg sales /spring water sales with a site for model fliers and model boat enthusiasts on our stretch of river. No-one is going to make rules and/or rules but me , How I hear you say ? Simple -get to know each individual that comes along and personally assess their capabilities .No committees -Just my judgement .I hope that once everyone knows everybody 's ability then we get together and provide help & a watchful eye for a few minutes to be aware of what might or might not happen . There's an old fashioned (now redundant)name for it & it doesn't include one piece of paper It's what was called COMMON SENSE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 There's certainly no reason why the "benevolent dictator" approach shouldn't work in your circumstances but in a club situation you would be lucky indeed to find a single person who would be accepted in this role by the entire membership. The normal committee approach is needed to apply checks and balances - some discussions do ramble along but it can be difficult for a single person to see all facets of every situation. Generally, club members get what they are prepared to accept and it's usually a truism that the empty vessels make the most noise - in various clubs I've experienced, very few habitual complainers are willing to stand for a committee place and actually try to influence matters. Luckily, my present club seems to get along without any major areas of discontent - but as I'm currently chairman I guess I would have to think that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Wright 2 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Wise and accurate comment Martin,your appraisal all so applies well to the full size f lying club. Myron Our rc flying group ,as we call it, operates successfully ,with not a bit of paper in sight, half our numbers are ppl , and we are all bmfa members.Edited By tom wright 2 on 13/02/2011 14:56:40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Grigg Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 our club has a couple of new committee members who seem intent on rule making and upholding,yet seem to flaunt the rules there making others adhere to.Weve recently started having pilotsboxes depending on the direction of wind.When the wind constantly changing we supposed to be running up and down the pitts,total rubbish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cantwell Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 making it a club rule that a B cert is required is sound, i have no problems with that, trouble is, i have seen B cert pilots who are--errm--a tad haphazard, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i12fly Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Alan C has a very good point. There is some variation in Examiners. Ours are quite strict (I don't disagree), but I know some who think being able to do the manoevres, even if out of line etc is enough for a B providing they judge them 'safe pilots'...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I've only ever been in two clubs, and I've flown at the "fun days"/"fly ins" etc of a number of others. I often read people's comments on here and other places, about their own clubs and sometimes even seemingly about "clubs" in general. I've got to say, in all honesty, I don't recognise most of these issues people raise. I'm not a club committee member - and frankly I've never sought to be one. But I've also never felt angry or upset about any decision a club committee has made - their decisions have always seemed to me sensitive and sensible. They are well thought out, reasonable proposals aimed at allowing a group of individuals to undertake a complex hobby using shared facilities in a safe and sucessful way. Now, have I just been lucky? Maybe I've just hit on the two clubs in the country that are reasonably run. I doubt it. Or is it maybe my personality - I've been trained in my job to work in teams and generally I would decribe myself as a "joiner" not a "loner". I suppose there are clubs were the committee contains elements that are "jobs worths" but my experience would suggest that such folks would get pretty short shrift at any club I've experienced if they really were making silly rules just for the sake of it. Could it be the case then, that in some instances at least, the reality is that one or two of us are just a little bit selfish and self-centred? Resisting any rule change that might inconvienience us personally. Refusing to see the bigger picture, that while the rule change might cause us some small problem the fact is that it really is for the greater good of the group as a whole? This raises of course the thorny problem of the rights of the individual versus the good of the majority. Perhaps one or two RC flyers see this with just a little too much slant towards the rights of the individual and down-value the rights of the group. Perhaps we need to remember that being part of society, or a Society (i.e. club), sometimes requires personal compromises, that's the price we pay for enjoying the hobby with others and being able to share the cost of facilities. Just a thought... BEBEdited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 13/02/2011 18:24:27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CARPERFECT Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Question ? Do you have to hold a (B) certificate to fly at public events/shows for your BMFA insurance to cover you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 go on myron....you've stated you're going to make the rule's for your new place...which bring's you into the 'suit' category you keep mentioning .... well done.. ken anderson ne...1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu knowles Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I don't have a problem with a B / LMA cert of competence being required for show and event pilots, however for general 'in club' flying, personally I think that forcing the possession of A & B certificates is unnecessary. The scheme was not designed for this purpose and possession of same is no guarantee of good flying. I don't think that it absolves a club from properly policing its members if it becomes necessary and if it doesn't become necessary - because flying is safe- why compel someone to take the test stu k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasa_steve Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 without a B certificate or an LMA certificate you would not be allowed to fly at any of the normally organised public shows or events etc. organisers see the B as an accepted standard of flying/ability to be allowed to fly in front of the public. i'm pretty sure your insurance would still cover you BUT the organisers insurance probably would notnasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CARPERFECT Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Reason for asking about (B) for shows, was last year i went to Harrogate model engineers show at the Old Show Ground and The West Yorkshire club were there and some of the pilots flying Hellies did not even have (A) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultymate Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Posted by Stephen Grigg on 13/02/2011 16:26:26: our club has a couple of new committee members who seem intent on rule making and upholding,yet seem to flaunt the rules there making others adhere to.Weve recently started having pilotsboxes depending on the direction of wind.When the wind constantly changing we supposed to be running up and down the pitts,total rubbish Stephen if you have these two committee members acting in this manner you have the ultimate sanction in your hands ie vote them off at your next AGM SSSsssimples Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Smalley Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 i am a great believer of the A and B scheme but i can't agree with it being used for 7 to 20 kg models there are models in this range that fly like trainers so i can't agree Jets yes! should be a B holder, other than that !!!! Edited By Lee Smalley on 14/02/2011 08:38:21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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