James Middleton Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 A long, long time ago in a Galaxy far, far away...actually it was my first MFC...Hethel Aerodrome in Norfolk. There was a fellow club-member who performed "magic" with a TrueLine Tiger/Webra speed40. The remarkable thing was this...he was self-taught and flew with elevator reversed...i.e. UP is UP!!! His reasoning was that "if I want it to go up, I push the stick...up". Has anybody heard of this "affliction"? It's a long-shot but, it would be great if he were still around, and on HERE...contact me if you will, Sir. The fact is, he was my inspiration...I was struggling with a Super60 (rudder and elevator only)...he introduced me to ailerons and a low-wing...I never looked-back. Well, except to "look-back" over my shoulder while trying to get my left-right co-ordination..not a tip I would now recommend!!! James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I fly my models with the same system...when they're inverted... Bottom line is that there is no "correct" mode but I wouldn't want to test fly one of his models! Best thing for someone starting out is probably to standardise with the majority if you're flying in a club environment. I do remember a protracted discussion with the girlfriend of a contributor to this forum where she couldn't grasp the logic of stick back for nose up - I have to admit that we took the sexist view (it was the 70s and it was still allowed!) that it was just a woman thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Most of the playstaion generation would probably fly like this because that is how their games work. I have to reverse the playstation controls when I have a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I also knew a self taught flyer many years ago, actually self taught on reed sets and than self converted to proportional. He flew, and well, with elevators (right stick)as above (logic up to go up), and throttle also reversed, stick at bottom for full throttle (logic pedal up for idle). If he is still about is has had a birthday card off the queen. I seem to recall the rest of the setup was ailerons on the left stick, rudder on the right. No one thought it odd at the time, I think he was the only flyer in the club with a 4 channel set so no one knew any different. A grumpy so and so, hence not a natural instructor, but he did teach me how to get a Diesel engine running properly, working on the teaching system, listen carefully, I will only tell you once, so engage brain. Divorced naturally, wife walked out when she returned home from shopping to find he had drafted the hull bulkheads of a yacht he was building on the living room walls. He was unable to understand why such unused flat spaces were unused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Middleton Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share Posted March 15, 2015 I guess there's "nowt as strange as folks" For my part, I was self-taught and started with a slope-soarer...I couldn't afford an engine! I would "chuck-it" from shoulder height (with my left hand, being a "lefty" ) leaving my right hand trembling with the Tx "balanced" with the aerial wedged between my second and third fingers so I could get use of the elevator with my thumb on the left-stick. Hence, I became, by default...a "Mode1er". It just seems right (no pun intended) to fly with ailerons right, elevator left. What a crazy mixed-up world, eh? They don't have this problem with real (full-sized) aircraft!...do they? Edited By James Middleton on 15/03/2015 12:05:48 Edited By James Middleton on 15/03/2015 12:06:21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Plains Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Well, I have to say that I've looked at loads of instructional images of the different modes for sticks controllers and have not yet found one that specifically shows 'push stick forwards' for nose down and 'pull stick back' for nose up. All they indicate is aileron, elevator, throttle and rudder. So, it's a mode Jim, but not as we know it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engine Doctor Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I knew a guy who swore by it ..................................he crashed a model every visit ! . Its an ill wind as the saying goes but he bought any models going cheap in the area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 At a fly-in a couple of years ago a young chap (you know the sort, cap reversed & baggy trousers almost falling down) spotted my mode 1 tranny and accused me of flying the "gay mode" (I kid you not). Presumably he was referring to how happy I appeared when flying my aeroplanes. "and I suppose you fly Mode 2" says I to the street dude............."Yeah mate, it's da cool mode innit" (again I kid you not). "How dey fly dem real ones innit" he added. Aeromodelling in safe hands I reckon............innit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Posted by Cuban8 on 15/03/2015 15:47:55: At a fly-in a couple of years ago a young chap (you know the sort, cap reversed & baggy trousers almost falling down) spotted my mode 1 tranny and accused me of flying the "gay mode" (I kid you not). Presumably he was referring to how happy I appeared when flying my aeroplanes. "and I suppose you fly Mode 2" says I to the street dude............."Yeah mate, it's da wicked mode innit" (again I kid you not). "How dey fly dem real ones innit" he added. Aeromodelling in safe hands I reckon............innit Oops double post................remembered he said "wicked" rather than "cool"! Edited By Cuban8 on 15/03/2015 15:54:33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Bastow Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Posted by James Middleton on 15/03/2015 11:50:06: I guess there's "nowt as strange as folks" For my part, I was self-taught and started with a slope-soarer...I couldn't afford an engine! I would "chuck-it" from shoulder height (with my left hand, being a "lefty" ) leaving my right hand trembling with the Tx "balanced" with the aerial wedged between my second and third fingers so I could get use of the elevator with my thumb on the left-stick. Hence, I became, by default...a "Mode1er". It just seems right (no pun intended) to fly with ailerons right, elevator left. What a crazy mixed-up world, eh? They don't have this problem with real (full-sized) aircraft!...do they? Edited By James Middleton on 15/03/2015 12:05:48 Edited By James Middleton on 15/03/2015 12:06:21 As far as I am aware they dont have this problem on full size, but I am sure i remember that on American aircraft all the switches are the other way up to ours. Ie up for on down for offI also seem to remember reading somewhere that French designed aircraft have the throttle the other way, that is backwards for full throttle forwards for closed throttle but i cant be sure of this. Can anyone confirm this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickw Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Posted by Cliff Bastow on 15/03/2015 16:01:00: ............... also seem to remember reading somewhere that French designed aircraft have the throttle the other way, that is backwards for full throttle forwards for closed throttle but i cant be sure of this. Can anyone confirm this? I don't know about full size, but I do know a Belgian guy who has his transmitter set up that way and tells me it's not uncommon where he is, so it suppose it is possible. Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Privett Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Posted by Cliff Bastow on 15/03/2015 16:01:00: As far as I am aware they dont have this problem on full size, but I am sure i remember that on American aircraft all the switches are the other way up to ours. Ie up for on down for offI also seem to remember reading somewhere that French designed aircraft have the throttle the other way, that is backwards for full throttle forwards for closed throttle but i cant be sure of this. Can anyone confirm this? Funnily enough I was looking this up earlier today. In the early days (I think WW1 was mentioned) the French did indeed have the throttle working in the opposite sense to what is used now - ie they pulled it out for full throttle, in for low. This isn't really a surprise though, as cars of that era had controls that were different to each other, and far from the standard layout we'd recognise today. I'm sure Dave Bran can tell a few stories of odd control configurations on some of the vintage buses he's involved with! Edited By John Privett on 15/03/2015 17:01:13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Posted by Cliff Bastow on 15/03/2015 16:01:00: As far as I am aware they dont have this problem on full size, but I am sure i remember that on American aircraft all the switches are the other way up to ours. Ie up for on down for offI also seem to remember reading somewhere that French designed aircraft have the throttle the other way, that is backwards for full throttle forwards for closed throttle but i cant be sure of this. Can anyone confirm this? Never heard that one but the Chipmunk mixture control works the other way to normal - forward to lean. This may be common to other Gypsy engined aircraft but I don't know about them. As far as I know the normal convention on all aircraft switches is up for on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Posted by Cliff Bastow on 15/03/2015 16:01:00: As far as I am aware they dont have this problem on full size, but I am sure i remember that on American aircraft all the switches are the other way up to ours. Ie up for on down for offI also seem to remember reading somewhere that French designed aircraft have the throttle the other way, that is backwards for full throttle forwards for closed throttle but i cant be sure of this. Can anyone confirm this? I remember reading the report of someone (Could have been Winkle Brown) that test flew a captured Italian fighter (Macchi C.200 or 202 I think) during WW2. It had the reverse operation throttle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hardaker Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Apart from odd stick modes, there have been a few brave souls who flew with no centering springs on the sticks.... Would this be a good idea ? There'd be no trims to worry about ! Just a thought.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron evans Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Like James I self taught myself on a slope soarer, and never having seen a slope soarer fly it was quite a thing to throw my precious Impala off a mountain. This was in the late 60s and the radio was a 2nd hand twin stick Fleet Galloping Ghost, although the model survived the radio didn't last long. When I finally got a proper 4ch radio I flew mode 1 on the glider but felt more comfortable with the throttle right back. When I eventually got a power model I ended up mode 1 reversed throttle. Not a problem other than some teasing from club members. As it happens earlier this year I took control of a mode 2 powered glider when its' pilot was struggling with watery eyes,and I managed to steer it around until he recovered, and after another go he even let me land it, wouldn't want to try it with anything hot though.. I wonder if you could class the Wright Flier as mode 1, as pitch and roll control were separated on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hardaker Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 If Mode 1 was good enough for the Wright brothers, it's good enough for me ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hardaker Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 ### !!! Edited By David Hardaker on 15/03/2015 20:02:18 Edited By David Hardaker on 15/03/2015 20:08:11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron evans Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I know they say it all depends how you learn, but with no centering springs I would think every flight would be an adventure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron evans Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Me too, unbelievably I'm the only mode 1 flier in a 40 odd member club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I remember when I first learned to ride a motor cycle (on a field) I could never remember which way to turn the twist grip throttle. In fact it is the reverse of the way we normally fly RC. I think it's because in the days when throttle control was via a lever, cable tension was increased by moving it towards you. Though I've ridden some vintage machines with unusual controls because the standard hadn't been set and I very occasionally changed my Triumph's gears the BSA way which had interesting effects The problem with flying a very unusual mode is that if you have to hand over to someone in an emergency (eg watery eyes) then there could be a problem. I'm one of the few mode 2 pilots at my club (one of the others is 'Reg Shaw', so I'm in good company) and the main reason is that I built my Micron transmitter that way because it seemed obviously right. On the forward for up controversy, soft wing micro-lights and hang gliders work that way, too. Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron evans Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 A good point Geoff about handing over control in an emergency. I spent many years as a lone flier slope soaring,( and no mobiles in those days) but with advancing years I feel more comfortable flying with company, even if none of them fly mode 1 ! I have offered club mates a stir on the sticks, but no takers so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J D 8 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 In the early days of microlights [late 70's] I flew a type called an Eagle, controls were two axis push forward for up and pull back for down and lateral control was with a handle bar that operated in the vertical connected to rudders out on the wing tips On another type the name of witch I forget the throttle was the only attitude control,full power for up cruse for a one speed level flight and with power off aircraft would settle into a steady decent. Lateral control was a leaver in each hand that deployed a drag plate on the wing tip,when landing as you neared the ground both drag plates would be deployed to cause a flare. At the time there were several other strange mix's of control [ a loose description in some cases] systems to be had. I fly mode two but can also cope with mode one as long as its not a hot ship. Edited By john davies 8 on 15/03/2015 22:52:15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Posted by Geoff Sleath on 15/03/2015 22:06:00: On the forward for up controversy, soft wing micro-lights and hang gliders work that way, too. We had a young lady join our gliding club back in the 80s and she had come from a hang gliding background. Tragically, while hill soaring her glider entered a spin for some reason and didn't recover, with fatal consequences. This was an ASW20 which was not known for any adverse handling problems. There was speculation that learned responses had caused her to pull the stick back to recover from an incipient spin. I know there are those that can fly both modes but I'd be very reluctant to fly a different mode model for anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Posted by Cliff Bastow on 15/03/2015 16:01:00: Posted by James Middleton on 15/03/2015 11:50:06: I guess there's "nowt as strange as folks" For my part, I was self-taught and started with a slope-soarer...I couldn't afford an engine! I would "chuck-it" from shoulder height (with my left hand, being a "lefty" ) leaving my right hand trembling with the Tx "balanced" with the aerial wedged between my second and third fingers so I could get use of the elevator with my thumb on the left-stick. Hence, I became, by default...a "Mode1er". It just seems right (no pun intended) to fly with ailerons right, elevator left. What a crazy mixed-up world, eh? They don't have this problem with real (full-sized) aircraft!...do they? Edited By James Middleton on 15/03/2015 12:05:48 Edited By James Middleton on 15/03/2015 12:06:21 As far as I am aware they dont have this problem on full size, but I am sure i remember that on American aircraft all the switches are the other way up to ours. Ie up for on down for offI also seem to remember reading somewhere that French designed aircraft have the throttle the other way, that is backwards for full throttle forwards for closed throttle but i cant be sure of this. Can anyone confirm this? Not just aircraft, AFAIA the convention for all electrical switches in the 'States is to have 'down for off'. The reasoning being that in an emergency it's more natural to make a rapid down stroke with the hand. Over here circuit breakers (home and industry) work the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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