Where I might fit in.

[James Kerr]

Hi everyone, a real newbie here.

What I need to ask is, where in this great hobby can a square peg fit in, I'm asking because I feel I might not be the only one who just can't follow exact rules, take orders, only fly on designated days, only fly when a superior is present, only fly if my model meets their approval, I could go on but I'm sure Club members will have come up against much more.

I see many Tube Videos where the flyer is on his own in a field, is that the only alternative? will I have to crash my way to perfection on my own? are there others of the same mind who meet up in small numbers?

JK.

[Peter Miller]

If you can' fly yet then worrying about rules is a bit premature. You need to learn to fly. All clubs will have some rules so thinking that you could join a club and just go and fly anytime you want straight off is not realistic..

The minimum any club would want is to know that you can fly your model safely without someone standng by you to warn you from making any serious mistakes before they will let you flay any time..

While some clubs are extremely easy going there are others that live by the rules. Visit clubs and and out which they are and how they are run.

[Cuban8]

Hi James and welcome.

Of necessity, clubs do need a framework of rules to work within and this allows members to enjoy their hobby in a safe and reasonably controlled environment. (clubs often have to follow strict regulations set by a landowner over which they have no say).

This doesn't mean that club members have to line up and be inspected military style before each flying session or have to pass all sorts of tests and 'hoop jumps'. The hobby would be non-existent if that were the case but a degree of very light touch regulation is essential, otherwise the result would be chaos. What is considered a light touch will differ from club to club so the advice to try before you buy is sound.

I've been involved with clubs for over forty years and I have forged relationships  with mates that have lasted longer than those of work colleagues and even family members - so I think that might say a lot in favour of being in a good club that suits one's character and needs.

Going it alone is certainly not beyond the bounds of possibility these days, but with certain caveats. The main ones being not flying without insurance cover and also, like it or not, every square foot of this country is owned or controlled by somebody and just wandering on to any likely looking field is asking for trouble. There is also the ANO that affects all model flyers, newcomers or very experienced - fall foul of that within a club or on your own and you'll be in a whole world of bother.

This forum has had many newcomers ask about learning to fly alone and there's plenty of good information that you'll find helpful on here after a search. Best of luck.

 

 

 

Edited By Cuban8 on 04/01/2016 08:55:14

[mightypeesh]

Hi James. The rules at clubs are not made up just to annoy people - there are many factors involved. Rc aircraft, by the very nature of having an un-guarded blender stuck on the front are very dangerous - so safety protocols are in place - not just for you, but for all the other users. Noise is a big problem now - all it takes it a complaint to the council and the club is jeopodised so some clubs have limited flying agreed with the neighbors. You can fly on your own - but it is much more fun with a group of like minded folk, and if you have an accident on your own.........

If you are starting by saying you cant follow rules then I think you are setting yourself up to be disappointed club wise. The 'rules' are what make a club safe and fun to belong to, and in a well run club are non intrusive and a benefit all members.

Good luck, Simon

[Old Geezer]

Hi James. I can see where you're coming from but the only way a Club retains it's field is ensure it doesn't upset it's landlord and / or neighbours. So first you will have to comply with your landlord's requirements regarding access and parking. Neighbours will be upset by noise and overflying and usually planning consent will have been obtained (or soon be required once regular use is noticed by somebody) so rules have to be complied with as to noisy models, days and times you fly and particularly which bits of sky to avoid. Your other concerns regarding supervision of a newbie: mainly comes down to the safety of all concerned, and again, retention of our field.

Regarding said Internet movies, just 'cos you don't see/hear other modellers doesn't mean it's not a club field and if someone wants to film their pride and joy it's common courtesy to let them have air space and a bit of quiet to do so.

[Mr.B.]

Hi James and welcome to the hobby.

What sort of model and flying do you want to do?

I know where you are coming from. When I first got into this hobby I was dismayed to find that I had to give money to someone called the BMFA and that they had a hand book with rules and guidelines and that they had tests! I only wanted to fly toy aeroplanes!

After a couple of years messing about with small foam park fliers I realized a few things.

1. Model flying is harder than it looks (many many crashes)

2. Finding somewhere to fly outside of a club is very difficult boarding on impossible (obviously this depends on where you are in the world)

3. I wanted to move on from messing about with park fliers

4. Dog walkers will always walk diagonally across the middle of a field, never round the edge.

I joined a local club and progressed more in 3 months than I had in the previous 2 years. I took the A & B tests not because I had to but because I wanted to prove to myself I had progressed. Now I am a club examiner.

I would advise you to find a club. As other have said the rules really are there for your benefit. For your safety, for the safety of others and to protect the clubs flying site (a very precious commodity).

It is possible to go it alone. Some on this forum have & do, but my best advice is to join a club.

Good luck & have fun.

Mr B

[ken anderson.]

hello from me james and welcome...you'll learn quicker and correctly by joining a club...rules and regs are a fact of modern life.......flying models...rules are normally designed around safety.....to protect you and others(3rd partys) ..dont get too hung up on the fact..enjoy the hobby..

ken anderson...ne...1 rules and reg's dept.

[Don Fry]

" will I have to crash my way to perfection on my own? are there others of the same mind who meet up in small numbers?"

Trouble is you will crash yourself to an expensive state of bad habit ridden sort of competence if you don't get instruction. That's why schools of all sorts exist. And yes, there are such groups in existence, but only a transitory existence.

One of the members of a Welsh club I belonged to long ago had a phrase I remember, "you been up to mountain too long boyo."

[Jon H]

I must agree with the guys comments so far.

Recently i helped re-write all of our club rules and i have even drawn up training syllabuses for the various levels to make sure that newcomers are being taught what they need to know. Our safety rules are quite specific and not open to negotiation because there are potential dangers to this hobby. We have even changed our field layout to improve things.

All of that said, the rules arent difficult or challenging. No flying over the pits, make sure your model is restrained in the pits, turbine operators must have a fire extinguisher etc. Many of these rules have come from our own experience. The model restraint rule is one of them as we have had a few instances where electric models have shot off on their own for one reason or another. Fortunately our changed field layout (big barrier of long grass) caught the model and prevented injury but we now have a double safe policy on that issue.

The other thing to consider is that many of our rules originate from the Civil Aviation Authority laws that govern the operation of model aircraft and are non negotiable

While i can understand your frustration, at my club we do all we can to help newbies get in the air asap and have a good time while doing it

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

From time to time we heard horror stories of clubs that seem to be run like prison camps. That is clearly not a good situation. So, yes it does happen. But, and this is the important point I think, it doesn't happen very often! I've been in clubs, I am a member of a club and I fly at events at other clubs and I think I've yet to personally experience a bad one. Oh yes, some are run better than others - but none of them have ever been a problem.

We all want to enjoy the hobby in a safe and friendly way. That means, as others have said above, there do have to be some rules - but in a reasonable club all those rules are just common sense and should present no problem to any reasonable person.

Flying model aeroplanes, like any aspect of aviation, has its fair share of hazards. It should not be dangerous, but it is potentially dangerous. So we have simple basic rules to protect everyone. Examples might be:

No taxying in the pits - obvious one, there are people walking aorund there we do not want an aircraft with a rapidly rotating prop to collide with someone and injure them.

No more than a certain number of aircraft in the air at a time - again, obvious we have limited airspace and need to keep the risk of mid-air collissions down to an acceptable level.

Landing aircraft have right of way - again common sense, an aircraft waiting to take off can do just that "wait". An aircraft landing, short of fuel, needs to do so now.

You couldn't call any of them unreasonable rules invented by a control freak could you? They all simply designed to ensure we can all enjoy flying safely.

To put it bluntly - there have to be some rules - there is probably no place in this hobby for a total anarchist! But they are usually sensible rules. If you can accomdate this then yes there is a place for you. If you can't then no there probably isn't and you would be better taking up some other interest.

BEB

[Dave Hopkin]

There are clubs and clubs.... I too have heard tales/rumour of draconian rules ate - but the two clubs I belong to have basically the same rules - all designed to safety - as for flying on your own, its the same at both clubs, if you can fly, then we would ask you to fly a few circuits and simple manoevers, do a deadstick and a controlled landing - if you can do those then you can fly solo as and when you wish (provided there are no football matched being played)

If you cant fly, then an experienced flyer would take either your plane or the club trainer up to a sage height and let you fly it round - over time you learn to fly

But if (as you say) you cant follow rules, then I am afraid its not the clubs that will be your problem but the law, the hobby is regulated (lightly) but the Civil Aviation Authority and if you cant follow the legal requirements then to be blunt its not the hobby for you

[Don Fry]

But as Biggles Major says above, if you found a prison camp club, go elsewhere

[Robin Colbourne]

Hi James,

As others have said, most club rules have come about to preserve something, i.e. you, your fellow club members and their property, your club's flying site or good relations with the neighbours.

Having said that there are those people who just want to fly and those people who want to go and socialize at the flying site. If you feel that you are in the former category, once you are established in the club and have passed any requirements for solo flying, go along on the less busy days and you will be free of most bureaucracy.

One club of which I was a member, flew mainly on Tuesday evenings and Saturday mornings. By avoiding these, I would often have the place to myself, or sharing with like-minded fliers and we would just get on and fly. We didn't break any club rules but it was just much more relaxed flying without an audience.

If you are learning, see if you can find an instructor who is happy to go along to the quieter times, and you will progress much more quickly than going on the club day and waiting for the instructor to finish talking to the other members and/or giving lessons to the other newbies.

If you really are a maverick and live out in the sticks, then pay for lessons at one of the many commercial model flying schools, get competent enough to put the model where you want it every time, and then find a local landowner who will let you fly from his land. You will need to check you are not in controlled airspace though and insurance is a must whatever you fly. If you want to keep flying from that site, the best approach is to make so little noise and disturbance that no-one apart from the landowner knows you are there.

 

Edited By Robin Colbourne on 04/01/2016 10:15:30

[Engine Doctor]

The thing is you will have to try to fit in and follow some basic rules , modern life is all about following basic rules. If you drive you have to follow the rules. Don't go along to a club with the attitude that you don't want to do it this way etc. Most clubs will pull out all the stops to help you fly competently so give it a go . Square pegs eventually fit into round holes once the corners have been shaved off ! All the points you make and seem against are valid rules . There are probably others of similar mind who meet up but they have to meet at certain times and not hurt one another etc so have their own rules. Club rules are there to A ,protect the members and public.B protect the site . I agree excessive rules can and do choke clubs so find a club that has a sensible approach and you will get on OK.

[leccyflyer]

BEBs final paragraph is the perfect answer to the OP.

[Area 51]

I can only agree with the sensible comments offered by the lads on the forum here so far... Tis far better to learn in a group with others, it is fun and faster.. and safer for all concerned.

Quick question.

Anyone wondering if the media are looking to draw comment here as a result of the latest RC incident or to pad out an article? with that famed euphemism "a knowledgeable source"...

Reading the OP again, I got a different meaning to the comments made! "Crash my way to perfection".. oh my!.

[Fredrum]

Hi James. I'm not a very experienced modeler, but I can tell you that having instruction on how to fly will mean that you will be competent enough to go out and do your own thing if that's what you want and it won't cost you a fortune in broken models. I'm self employed and I work on my own. I'm often using wood working machinery such as saws, routers, planers etc. and it has been in my own best interest to learn how to safely operate them. I actually take a little more care because there's no-one there to call for an ambulance if anything happens. I've been doing it this way for 10 years and I still have all my fingers.

Someone earlier mentioned the CAA and I think that's very relevant to your situation. There have been stories recently of people being arrested for flying models too close to full size planes, sensitive government installations or indeed other people. If you're not acquainted with the law (and not all of it can be anticipated by just using common sense) you run the risk of being arrested, especially with heightened awareness of security issues these days. I would suggest if you do want to plough your own furrow, take the time to acquaint yourself with the relevant regulations generally as well as those specific to where you want to fly. Or you could just join a club long enough to get all the experience and knowledge you need then go out on your own. Other advantages of being in the club are that you can get advice on how to set your model up (or indeed whether the model you have is even appropriate to your skill level) and that when you do bend a model (and you will) there will be a wealth of knowledge to draw from on how to competently fix it. Some might even offer to do it for you.

The best of luck.

Edited By Fredrum on 04/01/2016 10:45:43

[Andy48]

Posted by James Kerr on 03/01/2016 23:56:03:

Hi everyone, a real newbie here.

What I need to ask is, where in this great hobby can a square peg fit in, I'm asking because I feel I might not be the only one who just can't follow exact rules, take orders, only fly on designated days, only fly when a superior is present, only fly if my model meets their approval,

I wonder if you are planning to drive to your chosen flying spot. If so, you will have to follow exact laws and rules, take orders from police, traffic lights etc, pass a test before you can drive on their own, and either have a new vehicle which has already been approved, or have it checked out each year at your own expense.

As has been said rules are there for a purpose, lots of us are square pegs, but we accept the need for our own and others safety, and in reality, few if any club rules are that draconian. It is sometimes quite sad to see a newbie arrive at the club with the attitude I want to do everything my own way, and ignore the vast experience of others. Usually they give up equally quickly disillusioned by repeated failure.

Edited By Andy48 on 04/01/2016 12:48:34

[bouncebounce crunch]

G'day James.

Rules are much different to Safety regulations.

Square peg you may be, but law is law and you must obey, club rules are different, if you don't like, then move to another club..

Remember you are at a miniature airfield not a public park. Good pilots take safety serious, from a servo horn to a battery pack, we want models going home intact.

Are you too proud to ask for assistance? Are you too embarrassed to fly in front of others? I am at a loss to understand why you don't want to be around other like minded aeromodellers, and probably very knowlegable ones at least.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Yep I think you've all answered that nicely, you do much driving James ?

John

[..]

Not sure on where you live but maybe slope soaring would fit your "free spirit" attitude better than a powerd flight club?

Edited By Justin K. on 04/01/2016 13:31:56

[James Kerr]

Thank you all for so many replies, first just to answer a few points, yes John Stones & others, I do drive a car and understand that comes with rules & Laws, I do understand that flying also comes with Laws and do understand if enough Multi Rotors intercept Aircraft, run through windows or crash into public places your hobby could be at an end soon. And no, I'm not a Newspaper fishing for a story

Its the little extra bits that put me off, there are 3 clubs near me, the first is by invitation only, the second says on their welcome page " We use Futaba equipment here" don't buy anything till you talk with us. The third I feel I might visit, there don't appear to be any put off's on their page, though I might find the membership is full, its restricted to 30. and only 4 in the sky at any one time. We shall see what Spring brings.

JK.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Hi James,

The "Futaba" thing is actually for a sound reason. When you are learning to fly you will have an instructor. That instructor's transmitter will be linked to yours via what we call a buddy lead. The point of this is that it gives him the ability to give you control of the model or (more importantly) to take control back instantly if you get into difficulties - thus saving your model. This means he can let you fly a lot more - closer to the edge as it were - than otherwise. So you learn faster.

Unfortunately it is a technical fact that, generally speaking, transmitters of differing makes can't connect this way. If the instructor is using Futaba - then must you. Now there is a way round this - if you are prepared to buy two transmiiters of the same make (not Futaba) then the instructor can use one and you use the other.

So you see there is a good reason for them putting that there - they are actually trying to help you! The reason for contacting them first is probably so thay can explain all that I have put above.

Some rules do have a purpose!

BEB

[Cuban8]

Posted by James Kerr on 04/01/2016 16:14:22:

the second says on their welcome page " We use Futaba equipment here" don't buy anything till you talk with us.

JK.

From your initial standpoint it does sound a bit elitist - 'the Futaba crowd only here if you please', but as has been explained, nothing could be further from the truth.

What is obvious to the experienced can be easily misconstrued by a beginner, so I think I'll go through my club's website and check for anything similar and unintended.

[Dave Hopkin]

There is also a reason for limiting the number of models flying at the same time, to avoid mid--air collisions - yes even with all the sky up there it does happen - also limiting the number of aircraft in the air lessens the odds of someone getting confused as to which model they are flying... and yes that can happen too....

As a novice, most clubs will clear the sky for you first couple of flights, we do