2016 Nationals

[Daren Graham - Cambria Funfighters]

Posted by ceejay on 17/01/2016 18:07:05:

as a huge supporter of the Nats, even being a volunteer for the last 10 years, i do have concerns that the showline as a stand alone event is risky, i attended the last showline only event and many things would have to change to tempt me to another,
the showline at the nats works because it is at the nats, its a relatively small show amongst a huge event that adds something, on its own what would/could it add to the list of events that anyone wanting to go to a show already has their pick of, i assume no hanger flying of an evening or chuck and duck, no swapmeet so what is there, if all is done is to copy what every other event does and calls it showline, ie the standard procession of slots then i fear many will go elsewhere,(along with their money) you need something new and different, aahhh!! but what,,,well its over 7 months away so time to done the thinking caps eh!!

here,s my 2p what about a theme, stop groaning at the back, take a look at the full size world for idea,s Duxford, OW to name two, or my personal favorite, Reno a show that is centered around the racing but contains a wide variety of all things aviation, and do just that centre it around some scale "racing" i mean proper pylons laps classes etc interspersed with solo/team and trade slots,(if you want trade there give them something besides a plot for their efforts), hmm

just a thunk!!

tin hat donned and skin thickening cream applied

cj

I for one would love to see pylon racing at the shows. Therein lies a big problem though, and that is, it is potentially very dangerous. I'm the last person to shout about health and safety but it would be a brave man that runs F3D as a spectator sport. When you see it at the Nats it's a long way off, and that's still far too close. The models are doing 250mph and the essence of pylon means that at some point the model is facing the crowd. At these speeds if anything went wrong a) it's too late too sort it out and b) if the model hits you then it will come out the other side.

You could run a meeting of less powerful racing models but the risks are similar this is why racing has become a minority sport in the uk, because it's done on closed airfields.

[ceejay]

Hi Daren

i do see your point and i don't envisage full on F3D racing, i go to see that at the nats and it is spectacular to see when you can see them, i was thinking more along the lines of the same classes as they run at Reno ie Biplanes, Light civilian, Warbirds etc this would be no more dangerous than a show flying large circuits as the start and finish would be the flight line in front of the crowd line and your end pylons at the same turning point each end as usual, i was thinking more "show racing" than full bore 200mph F3D, your flag men don't even need to be at the pylons so long a they can see them clearly they can be on the same line as the pilots albeit at the pylon turn point, i have seen something similar reported in the past from New Zealand if i recall correctly the even had a Harvard class, and a radial engine class,

as i said its just an idea to change the standard show format, and it is in need of some change the LMA tried some years ago with their "pageant" format which they dropped after some initial problems, i thought the idea had great merit and still does, (as a point here the "heritage" slots at the nats this year were the first slots i had taken part in that got spontaneous applause) so the crowds are looking for something new,

a few of us tried the racing theme some years ago through our association with YT International flying their civilian models in a pseudo "kings cup" air race which was great fun, there must be other themes out there to consider, even just more thought to the slots themselves being themed or choreographed, TJD are very very good at this,

cj

[Wingman]

As one who leaves the family behind and travels 500 miles by car to get there when my work rota allows I have to say that I LOVE THE BMFA POWER NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS (note - not RC - POWER) a place where I can be totally immersed in the world of model aircraft in all its forms for 3 days. I love the control line stuff including the speed championships with the pulse jets - the noise is part of the ambiance of the whole round and round in circles bit and you can see that the c/l guys are very competitive. I love the scale line with the guys battling to fly their superb models in the usually inclement conditions - again trying their hardest to win. I love the IMAC line with the immaculately set up aircraft being flown with absolute accuracy with the guys trying like anything to win. Waiting until the evening air settles so that the free flight scale guys can compete - superb! - as you can see there's a theme going on here and, to me, it would be really really sad if it was all split up or even stopped. The Nationals must be held in the one place at the same time - it's what it's all about!

[john featherstone 1]

all this woffle above is all very well but the main thing is we need somewhere to hold the NATS ???? I have flown at the nats years ago, and have been to the last five nats with other club members and we make a long weekend of it (fri to mon )the REASON WE AND MANY MODELLERS GO is to see things we don't often see C/L FOR ONE in all its disguises ( scale , speed, combat, team race,) ect ect no I'm not???? I fly R/c have done since the seventies there is no other show were you can see all the different classes of model aircraft, the show line is for people to see what aero modelling is all about nice aircraft being flown nicely, nowhere can you see fun fly, aerobatics ,imac pylon racing. helicopters, and RC scale, all in one place to my mind its the only show for MODELLERS and the only place some trade go to eg PAW engines anyway,think ive jacknored enough ITS THE SITE WE NEED, IF WE HAD THAT I THINK THE REST WILL COME EASY

[Erfolg]

I think I am thinking along the same lines as John.

Irrespective of what has specifically happened relative to the venue, there should always have been a plan "B". Especially due to last years issues and the writing has been on the wall, in a general sense across at least England.

So what is the fall back position?

I am somewhat disappointed that models are still being used un-silenced. This small noise footprint has cost us modellers a lot of sites. The club i now fly with, was for years under pressure and restrictions on our RC flying, because of some control line modellers flying on the other side of the river. The noise that they made was lain at our door. Even F1 has woke up, smelled the coffee and have reduced the noise, to nearer socially acceptable levels.

More importantly what is the fall back position!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Edited By Erfolg on 19/01/2016 14:34:03

[Geoff S]

I've missed the Nats for the past 2 years because holidays intervened but when we go we camp very close to the hanger on the airfield side of the peri track (originally because I was involved in the indoor flying in the evening). That's also very near to the control line circles so we get the noise but that's part of the power nationals. I'm not much of a noise freak but even I git a thrill when I heard the incredible noise of the pulse jets that was almost deafening from 400 metres So I very much agree with Chris (ceejay).

However that's not the problem The real problem is finding somewhere to hold any sort of power nationals as Barkston has been closed for us. I suspect it's likely to be closed for good so a new venue with a sympathetic owner/manager/CO is vital. I don't care where it is but I'll be going if at all possible and dates don't clash.

Geoff

[ceejay]

i do agree that the venue to hold the nats as a whole event is the prime target for the BMFA, i hope that they have a plan B and are using their resources to investigate new locations,

as has been said the writing was appearing if not actually visible on the wall in 2015, but it appears that this is unlikely for 2016, and the "solution" is to copy what happened last time in that the individual disciplines held their finals as and where/when they could, and a "showline" was held elsewhere, my original thoughts on this have not changed, i don't think it worked very well last time and i don't think it will again without some major thinking on what they want, just another "show" wont have the appeal the nats does, people wont travel 500 miles (not even the proclaimers) and more to attend, there are shows aplenty throughout the year.

cj

[ken anderson.]

people really need a positive comment from the BMFA on the matter...... ie...have they a list of prefered site's...i dont think they'll pay much heed to comments people make ..... i may be wrong...but.

ken anderson....ne...1 new nat's venue dept.?

[john featherstone 1]

could this be PLAN B Mr B M F A HERE IS THE PHONE NUMBER OF RAF WOODVALE it is 01704837252 its on there web site, perhaps you should get our PATRON to ring it to see if we can book it for the NATS don't think they will turn him down do you ??????????????? PS SORRY MANNY you do a good job,

[Robert Armstrong 2]

A showline and trade show is not the BMFA Nationals, its just another show. I expect the BMFA are trying to maintain revenue by this, but will it be any more attractive than the 'established' large shows?

Surely it would be more sensible to try to maintain the 'Nationals' at another airfield? I would have thought that Cosford would be big enough and also Duxford or Yeovilton, all of which are set up for visitors as they have museum on site. Or is it too late? Given that Barkston availability has been questioned for at least a couple of years, have the BMFA not given any thought to a contingency plan?

[Cuban8]

**LINK**

So that's that then................

[Richard Harris]

That's a shame but to be fair it was pretty much expected. With that and no RCM&E sponsored fly-in in 2016 it is going to be different kind of year, I am sure there will be other alternatives available. I will be keeping an eye out in the BMFA news for other events, will probably do us good to try other fly-ins.

Fingers crossed for next year

Rich

[MattyB]

Posted by Cuban8 on 01/03/2016 10:46:22:

**LINK**

So that's that then................

Certainly looks like it. You can hear the frustration leaking through... "...I am sorry that we have been forced into this position, partly as a result of lack of co-operation from some within the current RAF command structure at RAF Cranwell. We intend to try and rebuild better relations with the decision makers and remain hopeful of seeing a return to RAF Barkston Heath in the future".

If the BMFA really want to build the relationship back up with a view to future use of Barkston and/or other MOD sites, is it really the right thing to criticise RAF personnel so publically?

Edited By MattyB on 01/03/2016 13:54:30

[ken anderson.]

i suppose if you take it for granted that the venue will be there come hell or high water...and when it isnt...thats the end of the nats as we new it(although i never went)...cant say that to publicly blame the RAF top brass is the way forward etc.......a portion of blame is soley at the feet of the BMFA......far too late to organise anything this year...and so people will forget, not bother in the future...end of an era...

ken anderson...ne....1....end of an era dept.

[Flyer]

I think we need a committee where the quorum is one, and only the chairman turns up !!

[extra slim]

failed NFC, failed Nats within 12 months....how much is this failure costing?

I don't doubt people have tried, and thank you for trying, but results are everything.

Without the transparency often requested on this forum, they have to be judged by results, and the organisation is a failing one...sorry.

No mention of 2017 is the far stronger message.....Nats at Barkston has gone.

[iqon]

Greenacres it is then....

[kc]

It does not seem like a failure of the BMFA but more like the establishment ganging up against aeromodelling.

[john featherstone 1]

er just go back a few and read AGAIN maybe the B M F A can get it sorted for next year ????????????? the phone number is there and they do hire it out

[extra slim]

I agree KC it looks like the aeromodelling fraternity isnt on the establishments radar, but come off it...I think everyone has seen this coming for years...its been a rumour for certainly the last 3 nats I have attended.

The failure is proactively managing the situation and ensuring a plan b, or c, securing the future for the event.

If it transpires they provide a statement that reads for the last x years we have been working on alternatives with a view to this happening, and have done a, b and c...but alas still no joy...then people would say fair enough....keep trying please..

The issue is...no one knows, what has and what hasnt been done... just a statement implying someone from within the powers that be have shafted them at the last minute.......naive and misjudged statement IMO, like others have said above

I would be very happy to proved entirely wrong, and would change my opinion accordingly...with what I know, I'm sticking to my views.

[Geoff S]

I think the attitude amongst a minority (I hope) of full size pilots is one almost of contempt for model flying. That may include some influential elements in the RAF.

We experienced it recently at Ashbourne when a pilot from a nearby airfield persistently flew his Tiger Moth across our patch. When our treasurer, who owns and flies his own Cesna, went to see him to ask for his co-operation in avoiding us he received short shrift. So we now have a permanent NOTAM at 2000' over us which actually makes it worse for him.

There's a guy who flies a microlight from our field and I had a chat with him about the Moth pilot and apparently he was the reason the microlight flyer moved back to our field.

I can't help thinking that some of the 'drone' reports from commercial pilots are somewhat exaggerated, too, and I'm no quad fan.

Geoff

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Makes me think of all sorts of questions reading posts, what's wrong with seeking revenue ? seems like a good idea to me. Just another Showline ? to a man and woman everyone I know comes back from Weston Park saying they've had a great day, why should it not be the BMFA providing/running this kind of day out ? what is the objection to it ? to the best of my knowledge the showline attracts by far the biggest crowds at the Nats, so that suggests there's an appetite for it.

Plan A B C ? is it that easy ?

When the mag comes out ...lots of comments about I'm not interested in the minority elements of the hobby, now Barkston's not available, we all love the diversity ? we are a funny lot.

Sometimes change comes because it's forced upon you, maybe we're at that stage ? would I go to a pylon, control line, free flight, scale, multi's, only Nats ? probably not I've never been interested in those disciplines , question is would others still go ?

If the BMFA ran a survey or called a meeting asking where do we go from here ? how many would take part or go ? or we more concerned with who's fault it all is ?

John

[ceejay]

I do agree that raising revenue is a good thing, unfortunately i also believe that a "showline"will not raise enough to make it viable as a stand alone event, it does attract the largest crowd at the nats, but this i due to it being at the nats, where you have thousands of potential spectators attending other events on the airfield on the day, so will wander up to showline for an hour or two, very few i suspect stay there all day, its a moving crowd not a static one, all the regular established shows have spent years building there event and audience, the BMFA would in effect be starting from scratch and would risk a loss making event, i am one of the many many people who in some small way help with the nats and will miss it enormously not missed one for probably 30 years, even when it last went away from barkston.

sad days and hope it returns but fearing it may not!!

cj

[Essjay]

Before I retired, one of the many areas I was involved in was Business Continuity. Basically it's a contingency plan that can kick in if you are unable to continue your business from your current premises, if an event occurs preventing it, e.g fire, flood etc, by moving to backup premises using designated staff and equipment.
Now I'm sure the BMFA (if they have any sound business sense) would have made such contingency plans for their Chacksfield office.
So, considering that the Nationals forms a great part of their 'business', that begs the question, if we're now led to believe that no such plans had been put in place (or even suggested) for the Nationals in the event of Barkston becoming unavailable, then I think someone from the BMFA has to come up with a very good reason for not doing so.

[Erfolg]

I do believe that John Stones sees the way forward, which even to a blind man is obvious.

If your historic route, your venue, etc is no longer possible or viable, there is no sensible option than adapt to the new reality.

Many have put forward many ideas, non of which seem to be greeted with any apparent or is that public enthusiasm, by the BMFA. The powers that be, seem to resistant to anything which does not adhere to the past format. Like it or not change is being forced on the Nationals Format. There really is no option than adapt.

Change can be good, the world does change, to thrive we, the aeromodelling fraternity has no option other than change with it.

With vision, the New Nationals could be better than the past.