Good News from the BMFA AGM

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by ChrisB on 24/11/2017 14:09:36:

Posted by Bob Cotsford on 24/11/2017 12:55:32:

Posted by john stones 1 on 24/11/2017 10:26:51:

Posted by FilmBuff on 24/11/2017 08:27:32:

Unfortunately, this thread has resulted in people lining up in the usual partisan lines - and I include myself in this!

If you're a believer, you don't need any proof. If you don't believe, no amount of proof will be enough.

Every opinion/fact from one side will be countered by opinion/fact from the other.

Can we declare the NFC a success? Probably too early to tell, in my opinion.

Should we be supportive - or at least stop throwing rocks at it? Yes, in my opinion.

Should people really worry that the £25K sponsorship would reduce subs by 75p per year? They need to get a life, in my opinion.

I'm trying to find a quote from Granny Dryden...

Edited By FilmBuff on 24/11/2017 08:33:55

Fair post FB. You miss one important group out though, "the vast majority" wonder what they're up to.

John, if my club is at all representative, the vast majority don't really care.

Same with my club.

Same here, unless you poke em for money.

[ken anderson.]

pity we couldn't do a poll - but as bob pointed out I don't think/imagine that most members of the BMFA will be bothered about the NFC........at the end of the day most only join because they need/want insurance....

ken Anderson...ne...1 not bothered dept.

Edited By ken anderson. on 24/11/2017 16:45:34

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

No polls please, it'll start an argument.

[ken anderson.]

Posted by john stones 1 on 24/11/2017 16:47:15:

No polls please, it'll start an argument.

.....................................................................................................................

ok...we don't want any disagreements etc...

ken Anderson...ne...1 ...we all stand together dept/not.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

Posted by Percy Verance on 24/11/2017 17:17:28:

Spot on there Ken. A good number of everyday flyers I've had contact with haven't a clue who David Phipps or Manny Williamson are.........

And I didn't notice either of them on the BMFA stand at Elvington as I walked past it.

Edited By Percy Verance on 24/11/2017 17:21:55

You could have stopped and said hello to me though.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 24/11/2017 17:31:49:

Posted by Percy Verance on 24/11/2017 17:17:28:

Spot on there Ken. A good number of everyday flyers I've had contact with haven't a clue who David Phipps or Manny Williamson are.........

And I didn't notice either of them on the BMFA stand at Elvington as I walked past it.

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 24/11/2017 17:21:55

You could have stopped and said hello to me though.

You were stood near ice cream van (swap meet) i saw you eating one.

Ooops wrong event, had a hard day.

 

Edited By john stones 1 on 24/11/2017 17:38:51

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

Having 3 senior staff on a stand woulx be a shocking waste of resources. I am somewhat gobsmacked anyone would suggest it sbould be done.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

Not sure what that has to do with your suggestion that all the senior staff shoulf man the stand at once.

Cannot please all the people all the time.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[David Holland 2]

Jeez, this is getting tedious. We have gone from an innocuous and very welcome comment that the venue for the 2018 Nats is confirmed at Barkston Heath, and that us old folks will only need to pay £34 for very comprehensive insurance, a national centre, the Nats, representation, etc, etc. to a discussion as to whether 366 is more or less than 1%, should we look 25K sponsorship in the mouth, the inequities of the treatment of country members, and, heaven forbid, how many officials it takes to man a stand. My perseverance is wearing thin (!). I do not claim these to be facts but we NEED the BMFA, the National Centre is here, get over it, no organisation is perfect but a lot of people work their socks off for our benefit and get little but carping for their efforts. Please let's have some perspective, it's playing with toy aeroplanes that we are talking about.

David

[Tim Kearsley]

Well said David! Any potential new recruits to our ranks who are looking at this thread would have given up and taken up philately! Who could blame them? What a petty bunch we are painting ourselves to be.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Far from being a waste of time, I see this sort of thread as an opportunity for any member (or interested non-member) to express views on our national representative organisation and as a bonus, get reasoned answers from the several informed officers and employees who regularly contribute. While people remain objective, the feelings of the members at large can at least be gauged by the decision makers - the danger of layers of representation is that it's possible that opinions can be diluted and distorted before getting to the policymakers.

[ChrisB]

Well said David Holland, it's getting to be a ridiculous thread now!

[David Ovenden]

I'm with David, Tim and Chris on this. I can hardly belive how negative and point-scoring this thread has become. I enjoy this hobby and have met so many positive and talented folk through it over the years. For me its sad to see it all reduced to this.

Edited By David Ovenden on 25/11/2017 03:05:30

[Bucksboy]

I also agree with David. Of course it's right that we can challenge the BMFA but it's gone past pettiness. I expect I'm like most members, I'm in the BMFA for the cheap insurance and the knowledge that if the Club needs them, they'll be there to help. I've never needed the cheap insurance and they did help when the Club was threatened. Luckily I've got a job where I can easily afford the £34 a year and I'm amazed how little it goes up each year. So, from the silent majority, thanks. Let's hope I'll get to the Nats next year, I've received good early notice and can try and plan a bit better.

[stu knowles]

Repetitive and tedious. The same (tiny) handful of doom mongers coming back time after time. It does the forum no credit

[Flyer]

I've resisted the urge to link the thread with the Monty Python Life of Brian sketch ' what have the Roman's ever done for us'.........

BMFA has it's faults, but it's easy to snipe from the 'cheap seats'. From my own perspective I will probably not visit the National Centre, however, I do see the benefit in having a national organisation that represents the whole hobby, competition flyers or general flyers. Being a member of many organisations I realise that there will always be someone unhappy, but the majority must prevail.

I suppose if we don't like it, it's up to us ( the majority ) to do something about it.

In the meantime I'm content to pay my small fee to cover me for insurance.

Ade

[Erfolg]

It is disappointing that who do like what the read  here, invariably wishing discussions to be halted, or maybe they will argue that a view is irrelevant, lacking foundation and so on. As my farther would say, there is nobody less tolerant than a liberal, who does not like a view that differs from their own.

I do agree with the points that Martin has raised, There is a disconnect quite often between the grass roots and the hierarchy. My boss used to say the messages from the top to the bottom and vis versa, are often lost in the sticky layer in-between. Although he also acknowledged, that top did not always want to hear messages from the bottom.

I have sat ant many area meetings where the floor has instructed the delegate in the way that the area wanted their vote to be made at council etc. For the floor to be told, that the vote may not be placed as instructed, generally on the basis that further counter information or arguments are persuasive.

Yet sometimes these votes could and do influence. Potentially the vote mentioned in the annual report with respect to expenses for team managers wives. It failed t pass. For many members that was good news. If it had passed, the anger that would have been raised by many ordinary members would have been difficult for me to assuage.

It is apparent from the careful use of words, that Andy does recognise that many many of the BMFA hierarchy, are motivated by a single issue or discipline. They may no longer be competitors, although now pursue their interests through the organisational structures. This is most apparent when views are discussed at area level. In the case previously mentioned a balanced view did prevail in my opinion.

Surely those who are content to pay subs for Insurance want more from the BMFA. Many do express a view to me at dissatisfaction with repect various aspects. I can only admit I have had limited success, in helping and wanting to continue in making the BMFA far more relevant to ordinary members.

A major disappointment to me is that many clubs are not represented at local area meetings. I see that as both a personal and a BMFA failing.

I personally support area supported fly-ins, where ordinary members are encouraged to meet etc. Fortunately the BMFA also agrees, in principle. So that for me is a good news story. We at area level need it happen more frequently, particularly as more often than not, these events attract far more members than most competitions.

I keep raising the issue of registration, I keep getting assurances that all is going well. It is now well recorded in this thread about my reservations and concerns about this aspect. Ordinary members do need more info in this area, as it appears that the direction of travel and the attendant luggage, appears to be known by some. Although I certainly know little.

Yesterday I was at a family function, where I chatted, about the legal aspects of Company Sponsorship. The person who I chatted withs view is that their are now a number of cases (involving HMRC) which have greatly restricts the practice. Although not a first sight a problem for the recipient, any sponsorship has to clearly benefit the provider beyond the recipient. Also recent cases involving larger organisations, particularly international level, there must not be any suggestion or implied or direct benefit or direct to the provider, by the provision of sponsorship in the benefit by the placement of contracts. We finished when it was suggested that this was a day of, lets talk about less work related things. I got the message.

Another message I get from quite a few, there is a limit to how much subscriptions that individuals will pay, I know some take a different view. I am also aware that not all are as financially buoyant as they once were and that fees to both clubs and the BMFA matter to them.

 

Edited By Erfolg on 25/11/2017 15:34:53

Edited By Erfolg on 25/11/2017 15:35:29

[ChrisB]

From my experience, the majority of members, certainly ordinary club members only see the need to be in the BMFA for insurance purposes. I often hear the phrase "I've paid my BMFA insurance".

Yes they get the BMFA news, but whenever anything BMFA related is raised at a club meeting, its usually met with silence and or a shrug of the shoulders.

The bottom line is that 90% of club flyers just want to turn up, fly their plane and go home. They aren't interested in NFC, or events, evening meetings,or EASA/CAA/DFT regulations, model airshows or anything else. They just don't care.

In terms of paying for the hobby, it is just that, a hobby and there are of course costs involved, like most hobbies. Unfortunately it does come down to being able to afford luxuries like a hobby.

One of our members often half jokes at our evening meeting about the cost of the club and BMFA subs being too high for a poor pensioner, as he walks back to the bar to buy another pint and then goes outside for another cigarette, having just come back from another holiday. Enough said!!

[Ron Gray]

Most clubs / organisations who run a forum come up against this sort of ‘problem’ when views / opinions are expressed. The bottom line is that if you do not respond, either way, the threads tend to die and in the vast majority of instances I’ve seen in the past, that is the best way. No more from me on the subject!

[Andy Palmer]

Yup, I also agree 100% with David Holland 2. Maybe more of us should back his comments to show our support.

[Keith Lomax]

Posted by Percy Verance on 24/11/2017 21:27:17:

Well Andy, they could have joined you to show commitment to the cause perhaps? And put themselves on show for those countless hundreds of members whom might otherwise never get to meet them in person. Not everyone lives in the Southern half of the country.

I have no bone to pick with you Andy. At least you were there. The others, to many of us, were just faces in a magazine.

Edited By Percy Verance on 24/11/2017 21:30:57

You have to remember, Percy, that Dave, Manny and Andy are both employees and model fliers. They have a day job to do, and can't be expected to work every weekend. Most of the stands around the country are manned by volunteers, usually people who have elected posts on either Council or on Area Committees.

For example, would you rather that Dave gave up his own time to fly to Germany to negotiate with EASA and protect the rights of all Aeromodellers in Europe, or went to a show and met a few dozen or at most a couple of hundred members?

Manny and Andy meet the members by doing club talks, at the invitation of clubs, and will go anywhere in the country to do so.

I'm not sure where you get the concept of a North-South divide, either? The only show in the South that I can remember any of these three guys coming to this year or last is Wings and Wheels (which I normally do but was in hospital this year, so Andy covered for me at short notice), but Andy has done several in the North each year.