The Gov't, CAA, BMFA & UAV legislation thread

[Brian Cooper]

Posted by Supersavage on 06/11/2019 11:49:09:

I've done the test and passed and now have a flyer id and operater id.

Well done, Supersavage.

I am going down the BMFA and Achievement Scheme route myself.

B.C.

[Nigel Heather]

If you don't have a relevant achievement, I'm wondering whether there is any value in registering through the BMFA.

My original thought was to do it all through the BMFA but I soon realised that was going to be problematic as my club's AGM is in the next couple of weeks and that is when I hand over my club and BMFA fees - I doubt that the BMFA will have their test up and running by then.

So next thought was to do the test with the CAA and get the Flyer ID which I can pass onto the club when I pay my fees.

But now thinking that there are just too many moving parts in the process.

I hand my Flyer ID over to club, together with my £9 registration.

They then pass that onto the BMFA.

Who then pass it onto to the CAA.

Who then send me an Operator ID.

Seems a bit of a palaver, seems simpler to just do it directly with the CAA, nothing to get lost in-transit, or mis-typed.

But before I do that I just want to check whether the BMFA benefits if I go through them. To be honest seems like extra work for them unless they are receiving some sort of payment for doing it.

Cheers,

Nigel

[kc]

Surely the BMFA 'test' is the A or B certificate that you can take any time you find a local examiner to test you?

Anyway my question is do we BMFA A or B certifcate holders get notified of our Operators ID number by 30th Nov in time to put it on our models by the required date?

Isn't the A or B cert  a qualification that overcomes the need to take the CAA test?

 

Edited By kc on 06/11/2019 12:51:26

[Alan Gorham_]

I suggest you read the BMFA's official release which clears up your queries on testing and registration, especially this bit:

However, as per our previous updates, members should not rush to register themselves on the CAA system as they are exempted from the requirement to register until the point that they renew their BMFA membership for 2020.

It's here:

BMFA link

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Nigel R]

Will the BMFA route result in us being registered as operator and pilot?

I assume so, but can't recall reading anything to confirm.

This came up in our clubs AGM last night along with a host of other confusion although by the end of the discussion, most members agreed they would prefer to pay the BMFA an extra £9 and go with the BMFA's multiple choice test if they did not have an A (or B).

[Dickw]

The BMFA route will result in you being registered as an operator.

If you have a relevant "competency" certificate from the BMFA you will be exempt fom having to do the CAA on-line test, but will have to carry the exemption and proof of competency and membership with you.

I don't think you will be issued with a Flyer ID (other than your BMFA number).

Dick

[Alan Gorham_]

Posted by Steve J on 06/11/2019 13:00:41:

Posted by Alan Gorham_ on 06/11/2019 12:53:58:

However, as per our previous updates, members should not rush to register themselves on the CAA system as they are exempted from the requirement to register until the point that they renew their BMFA membership for 2020.

To be pedantic, BMFA members are exempt from registering as operators until the 31st January.

Lovely pedantry, but the quoted words are not my words. They are the BMFA's words. If you don't renew your BMFA membership by the 31 January are you still a BMFA member? I think not and so to have continuous membership you need to renew before 01 Jan 2020 which is inside the exemption period anyway QED.

[Brian Spearing]

Dammit! I just had a quick look at the CAA test while waiting for lunch, and found myself with an operator number and a flyer number. Five minutes, maybe ten if you need to look at the crib.

[Nigel Heather]

Posted by Nigel R on 06/11/2019 13:06:35:

Will the BMFA route result in us being registered as operator and pilot?

I assume so, but can't recall reading anything to confirm.

This came up in our clubs AGM last night along with a host of other confusion although by the end of the discussion, most members agreed they would prefer to pay the BMFA an extra £9 and go with the BMFA's multiple choice test if they did not have an A (or B).

So this is the question on my mind.

 

Why would you prefer to give £9.00 to the BMFA?

 

My understanding is that they are just acting as an unpaid middleman - we pay our registration fees to BMFA and they pass them onto to the CAA. It may sit in the BMFA's bank account for a while but interest rates are rubbish so that is hardly going to make them anything. They are just doing a load of admin on behalf of the CAA for free.

That is my understanding - or am I wrong - more than happy to be told that.

Do the BMFA take a cut or get paid by the CAA to provide this service. If so, then I'm more than happy to process my registration with the BMFA, but if not, it seems like I would be doing them a favour processing it directly with the CAA.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

Edited By Nigel Heather on 06/11/2019 14:37:10

[Dickw]

I am pretty sure the BMFA get nothing out of this - it is just a service to make life easier for members.

I did the CAA on-line test, so now have my Flyer ID, but will register via the BMFA when I renew in a few weeks.

Dick

[MattyB]

Posted by Nigel Heather on 06/11/2019 14:35:46:

Posted by Nigel R on 06/11/2019 13:06:35:

Will the BMFA route result in us being registered as operator and pilot?

I assume so, but can't recall reading anything to confirm.

This came up in our clubs AGM last night along with a host of other confusion although by the end of the discussion, most members agreed they would prefer to pay the BMFA an extra £9 and go with the BMFA's multiple choice test if they did not have an A (or B).

So this is the question on my mind.

Why would you prefer to give £9.00 to the BMFA?

My understanding is that they are just acting as an unpaid middleman - we pay our registration fees to BMFA and they pass them onto to the CAA. It may sit in the BMFA's bank account for a while but interest rates are rubbish so that is hardly going to make them anything. They are just doing a load of admin on behalf of the CAA for free.

That is my understanding - or am I wrong - more than happy to be told that.

Do the BMFA take a cut or get paid by the CAA to provide this service. If so, then I'm more than happy to process my registration with the BMFA, but if not, it seems like I would be doing them a favour processing it directly with the CAA.

Cheers,

Nigel

That is my analysis too. I have registered as a Remote Pilot via the CAA (it is still a little unclear from the BMFA releases whether they have got an exemption for remote pilot registration til Jan, so I thought it better to go that route). I will wait and see as to whether they can tie up with the CAA to do the Operator registration scheme in time, but I will probably do that direct too, at least this first year - it's one less data transfer for there to be a security issue with.

[Don Fry]

I am now FLY-XX7ZCW. 3 minutes, 22 seconds, not including difficult bits like remembering my address.

[Dickw]

Posted by MattyB on 06/11/2019 15:32:57:

..................................................................

....... I have registered as a Remote Pilot via the CAA (it is still a little unclear from the BMFA releases whether they have got an exemption for remote pilot registration til Jan, so I thought it better to go that route). I will wait and see as to whether they can tie up with the CAA to do the Operator registration scheme in time, but I will probably do that direct too, at least this first year - it's one less data transfer for there to be a security issue with.

The terms are confusing, but my understanding is that the pilot doesn't register - he needs to be competent. It is the Operator who registers.

Remote Pilot Competency exemption here.

Operator registration exemption here

Dick

[fly boy3]

Thanks for the info Dick, as a golden oldie, have i got it right. If I have A, B orC I am exempt from the test. If I belong to one of the associations like bmfa, I do not have to apply for operator certification. Do I have to register for pilot cert.? Cheers

[GONZO]

Well I've firmed up on my approach. Never did CL in my modelling past so am taking this opportunity to give it a go in 2020 as it side steps the registration as an operator requirement. Probably get the flyer number by way of my BMFA achievement rating(not that I'll need it for CL). A few sub 250gm planes to complement the 50" stunter will complete the 2020 inventory whilst I wait for the dust to settle and see the way things are heading.

[MattyB]

Posted by Dickw on 06/11/2019 16:01:36:

Posted by MattyB on 06/11/2019 15:32:57:

..................................................................

....... I have registered as a Remote Pilot via the CAA (it is still a little unclear from the BMFA releases whether they have got an exemption for remote pilot registration til Jan, so I thought it better to go that route). I will wait and see as to whether they can tie up with the CAA to do the Operator registration scheme in time, but I will probably do that direct too, at least this first year - it's one less data transfer for there to be a security issue with.

The terms are confusing, but my understanding is that the pilot doesn't register - he needs to be competent. It is the Operator who registers.

Remote Pilot Competency exemption here.

Operator registration exemption here

Dick

It doesn't matter how you brand it - if I am giving them my personal information (name, address, DOB, email etc) and telling them I fly drones and model aircraft that is still registration. That there is also a competency test attached doesn't change that.

We are being asked to register twice (and I do understand why, though many will question the need); once for free as a pilot, the other for £9 as an operator. The two are entirely separable and unrelated - you can have one, t'other or both.

[Dickw]

Posted by fly boy3 on 06/11/2019 16:15:26:

Thanks for the info Dick, as a golden oldie, have i got it right. If I have A, B orC I am exempt from the test. If I belong to one of the associations like bmfa, I do not have to apply for operator certification. Do I have to register for pilot cert.? Cheers

You have to be registered as an Operator and you can do that either direct with the CAA or via the BMFA at renewal.

As a pilot you have to prove competency, so If you have a BMFA 'A' cert or higher you don't need to do anything else as you are covered by the competency exemption I linked to while you are a member of the BMFA.

If you don't have a BMFA cert, or leave the BMFA, you have to do the CAA test and get a Flyer ID.

(Note - other associations are available )

Dick

[Nigel R]

Well I decided to just do the CAA site test.

Total time, 5 minutes. It is not difficult at all, especially as you can keep the answers handy and search through them.

I shall now be a good boy and stick my magic number on my toys, and look forward to enjoying all the positive benefits that registration can bring me.

[Jason-I]

Posted by Dickw on 06/11/2019 16:53:28

You have to be registered as an Operator and you can do that either direct with the CAA or via the BMFA at renewal.

Not everybody had to be registered as an operator....

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I'll wait and do mine via the BMFA, who knows it may be of benefit to have good numbers, at future talks.

[Denis Watkins]

Posted by john stones 1 on 06/11/2019 17:15:53:

I'll wait and do mine via the BMFA, who knows it may be of benefit to have good numbers, at future talks.

The BMFA suggested all along that we wait until the final meetings had passed

There has to be some mileage in numbers coming from one source as you suggest

[Dickw]

Posted by Jason-I on 06/11/2019 17:14:18:

Posted by Dickw on 06/11/2019 16:53:28

You have to be registered as an Operator and you can do that either direct with the CAA or via the BMFA at renewal.

Not everybody had to be registered as an operator....

Agreed. If you only fly CL, or under 250gm RC, or only fly other people's models, you don't need to be registered as an operator.

Have I missed anything? FF?

Dick

[PeterF]

Posted by Nigel R on 06/11/2019 17:10:20:

Well I decided to just do the CAA site test.

Total time, 5 minutes. It is not difficult at all, especially as you can keep the answers handy and search through them.

I shall now be a good boy and stick my magic number on my toys, and look forward to enjoying all the positive benefits that registration can bring me.

Stick the Operator Registration number on, not the pilot flyer ID that came from doing the test.

[Kevin 216]

The exemption from the CAA test expires on 30 Jun 20. Pilots are required to carry a copy of the exemption as well as proof they have the appropriate award.

I decided to do the CAA online 'tick' test took about 5 minutes (must say the BMFA Mandatory Questions were harder and much more comprehensive!). However now have a Flyer number that lasts 3 years.

Undecided which route to use to register as an operator. (direct CAA or via BMFA).